The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.

[David H.]

1 Corinthians 12:3

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[stephen64]

Tit_2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

and the glorious appearing of the great God, and our Saviour Jesus Christ; not two divine persons, only one, are here intended; for the word: rendered "appearing", is never used of God the Father, only of the second person; and the pro-positive article is not set before the word "Saviour", as it would, if two distinct persons were designed; and the copulative "and" is exegetical, and may he rendered thus, "and the glorious appearing of the great God, even our Saviour Jesus Christ"; who, in the next verse, is said to give himself for the redemption of his people: so that here is a very illustrious proof of the true and proper deity of Christ, who will appear at his second coming; for of that appearance are the, words to be understood, as the great God, in all the glories and perfections of his divine nature; as well as a Saviour, which is mentioned to show that he will appear to the salvation of his people, which he will then put them in the full possession of; and that the brightness of his divine Majesty will not make them afraid: and this appearance will be a glorious one; for Christ will come in his own glory, in the glory of his deity, particularly his omniscience and omnipotence will be very conspicuous; and in his glory as Mediator, which will be beheld by all the saints; and in his glory as a Judge, invested with power and authority from his Father, which will be terrible to sinners; and in the glory of his human nature, with which it is now crowned; and in his Father's glory, in the same he had with him before the world was, and which is the same with his, and in that which he will receive from him as man and Mediator, and as the Judge of the whole earth;

You really seem to downplay the fact, as it stands written in scriptures, that Christ is God.
But it is neither here nor there.
Nice "chatting" with you now that I know where you stand, a KJV-Onlyist.
J.

Im sorry, but off you go again

 

[stephen64]

It took 300 years after Christ died at calvary before the official church changed the official doctrine of who you must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life. But it was by then, a far cry from the original first century church. Well God has never changed the doctrine from day one as to who you must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life. So one must ask, is the church responsible(according to their change of doctrinal belief) for all those who may have ended up in hell due to not previously being told what they must believe
The most rapid growth, and greatest power ever seen in the church was before the emergence of these scholars and theologians, ever pouring over the scriptures, trying to find another ''hidden truth'' they could create a doctrine about. Oh well

 

[Johann]

It took 300 years after Christ died at calvary before the official church changed the official doctrine of who you must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life. But it was by then, a far cry from the original first century church. Well God has never changed the doctrine from day one as to who you must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life. So one must ask, is the church responsible(according to their change of doctrinal belief) for all those who may have ended up in hell due to not previously being told what they must believe
The most rapid growth, and greatest power ever seen in the church was before the emergence of these scholars and theologians, ever pouring over the scriptures, trying to find another ''hidden truth'' they could create a doctrine about. Oh well

Forgive me, you sound like Anderson, a Baptist preacher.
J.

 

[RedFan]

It took 300 years after Christ died at calvary before the official church changed the official doctrine of who you must believe Christ to be to inherit eternal life.

I don't know that I would say "changed" here. Maybe "declared" would be better. There was no official consensus on the doctrine to be "changed," as best I can tell.

 

[stephen64]

I don't know that I would say "changed" here. Maybe "declared" would be better. There was no official consensus on the doctrine to be "changed," as best I can tell.

It was at Nicea they first made official belief Christ is the one true God and you must believe it in order to be saved. Im sure catholics can correct me if that is wrong, but on previous websites many, from various denominations have stated that to be the truth

 

[stephen64]

Forgive me, you sound like Anderson, a Baptist preacher.
J.

Baptists are pretty good you know. Have you ever read Spurgeon's book ''All Of Grace'' great book

 

[Johann]

It was at Nicea they first made official belief Christ is the one true God and you must believe it in order to be saved. Im sure catholics can correct me if that is wrong, but on previous websites many, from various denominations have stated that to be the truth

I'm curious, do you have a YouTube channel?
J.

 

[Johann]

Baptists are pretty good you know. Have you ever read Spurgeon's book ''All Of Grace'' great book

Yes, I've read it, have you read any of the reformers writings?
J.

 

[Pearl]

I'm sure your human intellect gave you a grasp of your belief. However, you are contradicting Jesus words. The Holy Spirit would not, and could not lead you to do that

Okay - no probs. Good bye

 

[ChristisGod]

What is under attack is the Father's place in the Godhead. Rather than casting Him aside...we are to worship the Father in the name of the Son in the POWER of His Spirit. Worshiping God's Spirit is like worshiping His hands or His finger...or what He has done. Rather Jesus came to restore us to fellowship with His Father.

It's time that this Triune thing was exposed as based on tradition...NOT the words of God.

Of course Jesus is God...although lesser than the Father who is the MOST HIGH. Jesus is not the MOST HIGH. Again, that would be to take away from the Father.

The Father sent the Son into the world. The greater sends the lesser. And in like fashion Jesus sends us into the world.

Our God is Jesus' God. We call Him Father as Jesus does. Jesus is YHVH...the God of Israel come to earth in order that He might have pre-eminence over all things.

No one is more humble that the Lord Jesus. We learn from Him. He thought equality with being God to be nothing and became as nothing to please His Father.

Are we learning anything by His example?

There is no lesser/greater with God. One is either God or one is not God. And the Bible refutes your position below.

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.

Colossians 1:19-20
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven

Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

pléróma: fullness, a filling up
Original Word: πλήρωμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pléróma
Phonetic Spelling: (play'-ro-mah)
Definition: fullness, a filling up
Usage: (a) a fill, fullness; full complement; supply, patch, supplement, (b) fullness, filling, fulfillment, completion.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 4138 plḗrōma – "sum total, fulness, even (super) abundance" (BAGD). See 4130 (plēthō).

Thayers 3. fullness, abundance: John 1:16; Colossians 1:19; Colossians 2:9; full number, Romans 11:25.

 

[Johann]

Okay - no probs. Good bye

Don't mind him @Pearl, these are trying times.
J.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Spurgeon's book ''All Of Grace'' great book

There is only one great book: The Holy Bible.

Everything else is just books.

“…of making many books there is no end...” (Ecclesiastes 12:12)

 

[Pearl]

Don't mind him @Pearl, these are trying times.
J.

Thanks @Johann I don't mind him but I feel sorry for him as he so obviously has been wrongly taught. I stand on the Rock - not Peter but Jesus who is the foundation stone,

 

[GEN2REV]

Last time I've checked even demons can quote scripture.

You would know.

Another thing you have in common with them, they believe but do not obey.

 

[stephen64]

Yes, I've read it, have you read any of the reformers writings?
J.

No, to be honest I seldom read books. I loved Kathryn Khulmans and one other author, but apart from that I just focused on the bible

 

[RedFan]

It was at Nicea they first made official belief Christ is the one true God and you must believe it in order to be saved. Im sure catholics can correct me if that is wrong, but on previous websites many, from various denominations have stated that to be the truth

Correct, the Son's consubstantiality with the Father was declared at Nicea, in a vain attempt to put an end to the long-raging debate over the Son's true nature.

 

[stephen64]

I'm curious, do you have a YouTube channel?
J.

I do go on youtube, but not often

 

[stephen64]

Correct, the Son's consubstantiality with the Father was declared at Nicea, in a vain attempt to put an end to the long-raging debate over the Son's true nature.

I did read on wikkipedia (dont know how reliable it was) that fifty or sixty years prior to Nicea they met to try and sort out this question. Though no conclusion was then reached, it leant more towards not terming Christ the one true God(is it something like Houmousis) I'm not really up on these expressions I'm afraid

 

[RedFan]

I did read on wikkipedia (dont know how reliable it was) that fifty or sixty years prior to Nicea they met to try and sort out this question. Though no conclusion was then reached, it leant more towards not terming Christ the one true God(is it something like Houmousis) I'm not really up on these expressions I'm afraid

Per Rowan Williams’ Arius: Heresy and Tradition (rev. ed. 2001), here is what was adopted by a synod of bishops at Antioch, although a far smaller number than would later convene at Nicea:

We believe in one God, the Father, the ruler of all,
incomprehensible, immutable and unchanging, the providential
overseer and governor of all things, righteous and good, maker of
heaven and earth and all that is in them, Lord of the Law and the
prophets and the New Covenant; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the
only-begotten Son, begotten not out of non-existence, but out of the
Father, not as a thing made but as a begotten being in the strict
sense, generated in an unutterable and indescribable fashion, since
only the Father who begat and the Son who was begotten know its
mode—“No one knows the Father except the Son, or the Son except
the Father.” He always exists and did not earlier on not exist. For
we have learned from the holy scriptures that he is the sole image
[of the Father], and is not unbegotten, since it is clear that he is, so
to speak, ‘from’ the Father. The scriptures call him a begotten son,
in the strict and proper sense—not just by convention, for it would
be irreverent and blasphemous to say this. Just so do we believe
that he is immutable and unchanging, not begotten or brought into
being by will or [only] conventionally speaking, in such a way that
he would seem to be generated out of non-existence, but begotten in
the way appropriate for him, not in the likeness or the nature of
anything that has come to be through him, or mixed with them at
all—which it is not lawful to imagine. Rather do we confess, then,
because he transcends all conception or understanding or thought,
that he was begotten out of the unbegotten Father, God the Word,
the true light, righteousness, Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of
all. For he is the image not of the will or anything else, but of the
actual hypostasis of the Father. This Son, God the Word, having
also been born and made flesh out of Mary the Mother of God, and
suffered, and died, rose from the dead and, when he had been taken
into heaven, took his seat at the right hand of the power of the Most
High, and is coming to judge living and dead.