The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.

[stephen64]

Per Rowan Williams’ Arius: Heresy and Tradition (rev. ed. 2001), here is what was adopted by a synod of bishops at Antioch, although a far smaller number than would later convene at Nicea:

We believe in one God, the Father, the ruler of all,
incomprehensible, immutable and unchanging, the providential
overseer and governor of all things, righteous and good, maker of
heaven and earth and all that is in them, Lord of the Law and the
prophets and the New Covenant; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the
only-begotten Son, begotten not out of non-existence, but out of the
Father, not as a thing made but as a begotten being in the strict
sense, generated in an unutterable and indescribable fashion, since
only the Father who begat and the Son who was begotten know its
mode—“No one knows the Father except the Son, or the Son except
the Father.” He always exists and did not earlier on not exist. For
we have learned from the holy scriptures that he is the sole image
[of the Father], and is not unbegotten, since it is clear that he is, so
to speak, ‘from’ the Father. The scriptures call him a begotten son,
in the strict and proper sense—not just by convention, for it would
be irreverent and blasphemous to say this. Just so do we believe
that he is immutable and unchanging, not begotten or brought into
being by will or [only] conventionally speaking, in such a way that
he would seem to be generated out of non-existence, but begotten in
the way appropriate for him, not in the likeness or the nature of
anything that has come to be through him, or mixed with them at
all—which it is not lawful to imagine. Rather do we confess, then,
because he transcends all conception or understanding or thought,
that he was begotten out of the unbegotten Father, God the Word,
the true light, righteousness, Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of
all. For he is the image not of the will or anything else, but of the
actual hypostasis of the Father. This Son, God the Word, having
also been born and made flesh out of Mary the Mother of God, and
suffered, and died, rose from the dead and, when he had been taken
into heaven, took his seat at the right hand of the power of the Most
High, and is coming to judge living and dead.

Thanks for that. I haven't much read of the church fathers(hadn't heard of them till I came on the internet) but I know Tertullian believed there was a time before God could strictly speaking be called Father, for there was a time before he brought forth Christ

 

[Bob Estey]

This is hotly denied on this forum, the Deity of Christ, makes me wonder who is in charge here...


Sam, the Deity of Christ under attack, on this forum by Unitarians and monotheists, if you are, like me, believe in the Triune Godhead you will come under persecution, on this forum since the majority on this forum are Arians, or monotheistic.

Stay strong in Christ Jesus, we are all sinners, saved by our Father's grace and blessed mercy, most of us are in the valley, whilst other are already sinless, able to overcome their fleshly desires, able to control their thought processes, their will.

Remember, most of us are in a race, others have already finished the race, sitting on a mountain.

Shalom, I have put @GEN2REV on ignore, and will continue to ignore those who insist to deny the fact that Mashiach is God in the flesh, deny His incarnation,that Christ is 'lesser' and not equal to God, that Christ Jesus is a 'created being' and the Holy Spirit a mere emanation, to their own destruction.

J.

I believe Jesus is God in flesh. However, I think it's wrong to censor people who don't agree with me.

 

[RedFan]

Thanks for that. I haven't much read of the church fathers(hadn't heard of them till I came on the internet) but I know Tertullian believed there was a time before God could strictly speaking be called Father, for there was a time before he brought forth Christ

You are correct. While normally a champion of trinitarian thought, Tertullian said this in his polemic text Against Hermogenes:

“Because God is in like manner a Father, and He is also a
Judge; but He has not always been Father and Judge,
merely on the ground of His having always been God. For
He could not have been the Father previous to the Son, nor
a Judge previous to sin. There was, however, a time when
neither sin existed with Him, nor the Son; the former of
which was to constitute the Lord a Judge, and the latter a
Father.”

 

[stephen64]

You are correct. While normally a champion of trinitarian thought, Tertullian said this in his polemic text Against Hermogenes:

“Because God is in like manner a Father, and He is also a
Judge; but He has not always been Father and Judge,
merely on the ground of His having always been God. For
He could not have been the Father previous to the Son, nor
a Judge previous to sin. There was, however, a time when
neither sin existed with Him, nor the Son; the former of
which was to constitute the Lord a Judge, and the latter a
Father.”

Thanks for that. Maybe its just me, but I am always amazed when scholars try and speak of events concerning ex nihilo(I think it is) I am happy to start with creation

 

[ChristisGod]

This is hotly denied on this forum, the Deity of Christ, makes me wonder who is in charge here...

Sam, the Deity of Christ under attack, on this forum by Unitarians and monotheists, if you are, like me, believe in the Triune Godhead you will come under persecution, on this forum since the majority on this forum are Arians, or monotheistic.

Stay strong in Christ Jesus, we are all sinners, saved by our Father's grace and blessed mercy, most of us are in the valley, whilst other are already sinless, able to overcome their fleshly desires, able to control their thought processes, their will.

Remember, most of us are in a race, others have already finished the race, sitting on a mountain.

Shalom, I have put @GEN2REV on ignore, and will continue to ignore those who insist to deny the fact that Mashiach is God in the flesh, deny His incarnation,that Christ is 'lesser' and not equal to God, that Christ Jesus is a 'created being' and the Holy Spirit a mere emanation, to their own destruction.

J.

Its always under attack. It Christendom The Deity/humanity of Christ and His bodily Resurrection along with the gospel message are always being attacked. The salvific doctrines are what the enemy targets to cause doubt, controversy, unbelief and discord with in Christianity. Its the difference between the True God (Father, Son nd Holy Spirit ) and all other false gods in religion and the True Christ ( fully God, fully man for all eternity post Incarnation) and all the false christs who are not God, not man, spirit, not Resurrected Bodily, and all the false gospels that go along with them.

 

[Davy]

I'm with you brother.

I probably would have out-right answered to the lawyer in the first video, "heck yeah, Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY of Salvation, all others go straight to hell IF they do not repent, and eventually perish in the "lake of fire"!

Even one of Jesus' Titles in the Old Testament Book of Isaiah is "Immanuel", which means 'God with us' (see Matthew 1:23).

All the false monotheistic and such movements that don't believe in the Deity of Christ represent, are those behind the secret societies that push the lie that ALL religions are equal, and any one of them will get you into Heaven. That is where such denials of Christ Jesus as God on earth originates. And it is important for those secret occult societies to push that, because they believe it's a must in order to present their king Lucifer, to the whole world and form their beast one-world kingdom for the end of this present world.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Those who say I'm attacking them because they believe Jesus is God simply because I disagree that the Trinity is a Biblical doctrine that's basically saying no one has the right to disagree with them doesn't it? I think that's an attack on a person's right to disagree.
No one has shown me in the scriptures that Jesus is God, in fact in the scriptures Jesus Christ himself said after his resurrection at John 20:17 that he has a Father and God who is also his Apostles and disciples Father and God and he says while praying to God at John 17:3 that the one he's praying to is the only True God this is what I'm going to believe. I don't think that is persecution that I believe those scriptures among other scriptures.

 

[stephen64]

Those who say I'm attacking them because they believe Jesus is God simply because I disagree that the Trinity is a Biblical doctrine that's basically saying no one has the right to disagree with them doesn't it? I think that's an attack on a person's right to disagree.
No one has shown me in the scriptures that Jesus is God, in fact in the scriptures Jesus Christ himself said after his resurrection at John 20:17 that he has a Father and God who is also his Apostles and disciples Father and God and he says while praying to God at John 17:3 that the one he's praying to is the only True God this is what I'm going to believe. I don't think that is persecution that I believe those scriptures among other scriptures.

They have a problem. If you make a god out of head theology you leave little room for the Holy Spirit to work
God bless, and thank you for your post

 

[stephen64]

Thanks @Johann I don't mind him but I feel sorry for him as he so obviously has been wrongly taught. I stand on the Rock - not Peter but Jesus who is the foundation stone,

We all stand on the foundation stone of Jesus. Just because others may disagree with you concerning the title of Christ(but not his essence) doesn't change that. Try not to be so rigid with your dogma

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Jn.10:28-31
...............................................................................................................................................................30 I and the Father are one ................................
Jesus stated that He has the power to give ETERNAL LIFE unto man. He has authority as God !
Jn.5:25-28
Verily,verily,I say unto you, The hour is coming, and NOW IS when the dead ( spiritually) shall hear the VOICE of the Son of God: and they THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE.
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
And HATH GIVEN him AUTHORITY to execute judgement also because he is the Son of man.
Marvel NOT at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the GRAVES ( physically dead) shall hear his VOICE,
The Authority of God bestowed on Jesus the Son of man/God to awaken the spiritually dead and also the physicall dead to life in the hour chosen.

1 Cor.8:6
Paul was addressing eating things offered to idols and false gods ,stating they are NOTHING in the world .......; w/o power!
V6 But to us THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom ARE all things, and we in him ; and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST, by whom ARE all things,and we by him.

1Jn 5:
For there ARE THREE that bear record in heaven,the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: AND THESE THREE ARE ....ONE.

 

[Davy]

Jesus' Title as "Immanuel" and its reference to Jesus as the 'child' to be born of a virgin in the Book of Isaiah seals it.

Those who deny it simply deny God's Word about it, so TRYING to say it's people being disagreed with, and those who disagree have their rights abused, is just silliness.

Isa 7:13-14
13 And he said, "Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; 'Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.'
KJV

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 'Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, 'God with us.'
KJV

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV

 

[L.A.M.B.]

THAT'S your Big Reveal, Stephanie?

That verse does NOT say that we must speak a specific TITLE of Jesus in order to be saved.

What on God's green earth have you been smoking?

I knew there was some reason you were ashamed to post the evidence of your assinine claim.

You literally had none.

You sir, are becoming really nasty address others here and calling them names as opposing genders. I pray your NOT in ministry.

Have you prayed today,?
Did you EXAMINE yourself b4 coming here ?
Are you being led by the Holy Spirit ?

 

[RedFan]

Jesus' Title as "Immanuel" and its reference to Jesus as the 'child' to be born of a virgin in the Book of Isaiah seals it.

Those who deny it simply deny God's Word about it, so TRYING to say it's people being disagreed with, and those who disagree have their rights abused, is just silliness.

I'm a Trinitarian, I believe Christ to be divine -- but sorry, Davy, I think trying to prove that point by referencing the name "Immanuel" is weak. Why not focus on the virgin birth as the more critical part of the verse? Those who deny Christ's divinity may have a harder time explaining what the virgin birth is all about than they will debunking the name Immanuel as a proof text.

 

[Davy]

I'm a Trinitarian, I believe Christ to be divine -- but sorry, Davy, I think trying to prove that point by referencing the name "Immanuel" is weak.

Then to you, GOD's WORD is weak!

Thanks for revealing where you mind and beliefs are on this matter, i.e., not actually from God's Holy Writ.

 

[stephen64]

I'm a Trinitarian, I believe Christ to be divine -- but sorry, Davy, I think trying to prove that point by referencing the name "Immanuel" is weak. Why not focus on the virgin birth as the more critical part of the verse? Those who deny Christ's divinity may have a harder time explaining what the virgin birth is all about than they will debunking the name Immanuel as a proof text.

you're right in what you state regarding Immanuel. The Holy Spirit was on Christ in bodily form when he walked this earth(Luke3:22)

 

[Behold]

Nice "chatting" with you now that I know where you stand, a KJV-Onlyist.
J.

This person you are chatting with is not a KJV, anything., as its the KJV that is the bible that states that "GOD, was manifested in the Flesh".
I would imagine that the bible that this person uses, says. "HE, was manifested in the Flesh".
So, its the KJV, above all other bibles, that determines and defends the Deity of Christ.

 

[RedFan]

Then to you, GOD's WORD is weak!

Thanks for revealing where you mind and beliefs are on this matter, i.e., not actually from God's Holy Writ.

I don't think God's Word is weak. I just think the argument "he shall be called 'God with us' therefore he must be God" is a weak argument. If that name had been given to Moses, or David, or Elijah, it would certainly have been an accurate portrayal of them as speaking the Word of God to His people -- but wouldn't make them divine.

Does every Christian who disagrees with your interpretation of Scripture believe God's word is weak, or just me?

 

[Davy]

I'm a Trinitarian, I believe Christ to be divine -- but sorry, Davy, I think trying to prove that point by referencing the name "Immanuel" is weak. Why not focus on the virgin birth as the more critical part of the verse? Those who deny Christ's divinity may have a harder time explaining what the virgin birth is all about than they will debunking the name Immanuel as a proof text.

Oh, since you failed to catch the point about Jesus as a child born of a virgin, that is... a focus on the "virgin birth"! And since you failed to READ that from those Isaiah and Matthew Scriptures, that's why my response to you in my previous post.

 

[stephen64]

This person you are chatting with is not a KJV, anything., as its the KJV that is the bible that states that "GOD, was manifested in the Flesh".
I would imagine that the bible that this person uses, says. "HE, was manifested in the Flesh".
So, its the KJV, above all other bibles, that determines and defends the Deity of Christ.

I would say its not the bible you read that is the deciding factor(providing it is a mainline one) but rather whether you rely on the Holy Spirit to lead you into truth concerning what you read
After all, I have read the comments of some who believe you cannot fully and correctly understand the message unless you have the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew bibles

 

[RedFan]

Oh, since you failed to catch the point about Jesus as a child born of a virgin, that is... a focus on the "virgin birth"! And since you failed to READ that from those Isaiah and Matthew Scriptures, that's why my response to you in my previous post.

I love you as a brother in Christ, Davy. I don't see any point in arguing with you about what I've read, many times. We will just agree to disagree on what they prove, and move on. Peace.