Perseverance of the Saints is different from Once Saved Always Saved

[Earburner]

1. I'm not under the Law.
I don't know any Christian that is.

2. I gave you a couple of veses.
So you ignore them and send me back Hebrews 10?

I'll reply after you reply to mine.
I'm not playing verse ping pong.

Heb. 10 paraphrased:
For a person to count the shed blood of the New covenant of Jesus, wherewith he was sanctified by, an unholy thing, deserves more sorer (worse) punishment than those who who lived under the OC but had despised/hated the Law of Moses, and therefore died WITHOUT mercy.
It's called the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[BlessedPeace]

How do you know what my native tongue is?
Wanna take an English test?

I don't care to post to you.
Your rantings put me to sleep.

Your profile:
Country: Italy.

 

[BlessedPeace]

LOL
It's only slander if it's NOT true.
In this case it IS true and I have all your silly laughing emoji's on MANY of my posts.
Wanna go to court?
We'll find out about my English AND the law....

Court?Red,is that you?

Yes,slander. And lies.
I'll be ignoring all of you now.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Court?Red,is that you?

Yes,slander. And lies.
I'll be ignoring all of you now.

They have nothing. Thats why they attack and bear false witness to take the focus off of them.

but anyone who is really looking will see.. so they hurt themselves

 

[GodsGrace]

Heb. 10 paraphrased:
For a person to count the shed blood of the New covenant of Jesus, wherewith he was sanctified by, an unholy thing, deserves more sorer (worse) punishment than those who who lived under the OC but had despised/hated the Law of Moses, and therefore died WITHOUT mercy.
It's called the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Read post 95 again.
I believe you didn't grasp my point.

 

[BlessedPeace]

They have nothing. Thats why they attack and bear false witness to take the focus off of them.

but anyone who is really looking will see.. so they hurt themselves.

It's a shame. And there are so many here.

I use a proxy to get online.
Many do.
Years ago at a Christian forum no less I was sent a virus
that impacted my PC horribly.

Now, I always use one when on my phone.

I've often wondered if anyone with access has checked the IP's of those many sound like adversaries of the Gospel.

I know of just two names here who have trolled Christian discussion sites for years. One using the same name. One using a screen name that follows a certain pattern. There are others.

The enemy and his disciples are busy. They know their time is short.

The Good News is, Salvation!
Is Eternal.

When we meet those intent on denying that is true,and I'm not referring to those who are not yet fully aware of God's truth. I'm referring to those who with premeditation and malice of forethought enter into a Christian community, corrupt,cherry pick and split Scripture, so to repeatedly insist Salvation is not Eternal, their version of xtian has to keep working to retain their salvation,can choose to reject God and God reciprocates, insist that Eternal Salvation is false because it is a license to Sin, and on and on, regardless of the concerted efforts if The Elect to show them Scripture truth, you know you are talking to a disciple of Satan.


Stop!

They have indeed chosen their master.
They have not been chosen by ours. And we will never ever post enough in responses to them to change this.

We know this.

 

[Runningman]

I know another here who speaks in derogatory terms to Christian Elect here.

I understand how your natural consciousness displays that dysfunctional attitude when the Holiness doctrine is laid forth .


It is a falsehood to claim I or any of my sisters and brothers here derail this thread when we defend the truth of God's eternal security against slanderers and liars.

Predictable. Now you're playing the victim when people expose what you are behind your thinly-veiled guise of self-righteousness and fake piety. It doesn't take much to see right through it, though, since you already exposed yourself by immediately suggesting I'm going to hell, sinning, and a number of other accusations which are all false.

I don't know you and with this being my first impression, I don't think you are a Christian Elect. There is no Christ-like demeanor or fruits to behold.

I am under the impression this is your defense mechanism because you don't like your beliefs being spoken critically of. Well, this is a theology forum so there may be some debating and tough pills to swallow. I assure you, it's nothing personal and no one is mad at you. God still loves you even though you are wrong, too. So my recommendation to you is work on your attitude and temperament.

It's a mercy for me to just not reply to you. The less you have to latch onto, the less it will provoke you to be unsavory. This will be my last reply to you unless I observe some noticeable improvement.

 

[Runningman]

We won't agree on everything.
But reformed theology is an important topic.

Here's why:
Some denomination or otherwill always have some doctrine or other wrong because they'll understand it in some way that they feel is correct. This is true of all denominations.

The problem with reformed theology is that it CHANGES THE NATURE OF GOD.
This is horrendous.

And do some think it took the reformation to understand the NT??
Were all those that came before for 1,500 years dumb?

And it's rather funny when a Calvinist posts replies from QotQuestions for support.
They'll also use one of the Confessions at times too....
Don't they understand that they're the only ones who believe the Confessions??

And I love some here who claim we don't understand Calvinism and then go ahead and never post scripture.

Yes that's a good point. A good question for every Reformed theologian is if people can be saved without Calvin's teachings. I mean, they're doctrines, not Scripture. I think this is an important thing to be cognizant of because Christian denominations say a great many things and then after the fact attach Bible verses to those things.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes that's a good point. A good question for every Reformed theologian is if people can be saved without Calvin's teachings. I mean, they're doctrines, not Scripture. I think this is an important thing to be cognizant of because Christian denominations say a great many things and then after the fact attach Bible verses to those things.

This goes for many denominations. Not just a reformed.. We should be God followers not people followers.

 

[Runningman]

@BlessedPeace is unable to reply to a serious post.
He/she just likes to laugh a lot.

Also, that member believes God went on vacation and left Him/her in charge.

I think God is still in charge of souls and not him/her.

Jesus said not to judge.
He meant a souls salvation or lack thereof.

Apparently the other member forgot to read Matthew 7:1

Yes that's true about what Jesus said in Matt 7:1. I think it's almost human nature to find one's clique and who they can yoke with. On the one hand, we are not supposed to judge, but then on the other hand it's almost unavoidable to pass some judgements even if only subconsciously; doesn't make it right. Of course Jesus' teachings trump our personal opinions and theology. Btw, Jesus said nothing about OSAS.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus is Salvation.

Can you do that?


So, If God's Salvation is "The Gift of Salvation" and "The Gifts and callings of God are without REPENTANCE"......

What does that mean.
It means that once God gives you a Gift, its God's imputed eternal Gift.
You didnt earn, it, you didnt work for it, and its God caused., and God gifted.

= This is.. "Born again".
You can't do that, so you can't undo that., and that is why there is no verse in a bible that says, "You can be unborn again".
You can't end a BIRTH based on Behavior.
You can't stop being a "new Creation",, "in Christ" because that is that is God caused, while you were "yet a sinner"., not after you were good for a while and tried to start saving yourself, because you lost all your Faith in Christ.

So, the Height of Pride, is when a person believes that they can undo what God has done.
And that is what is happening in the head of a deceived person, who does not understand what it means to be "in "Christ", as "one with God".

Let me put it to you like this reader.
Once a deceived believer believes that they have more power to end salvation, then Jesus who is in the Born Again, has given them Eternal life, then this person is lost in pride.

"You can't keep me saved God... see, i found 3 verses that TO ME, prove to ME, that i have more power to lose YOUR GIFT of Salvation, then You have the Power to keep me saved".

You know what God does with this type of carnal person, this "self saver", this, Denier of Eternal Life?

God does nothing with them... nothing.
He just moves on to a real believer., who has real faith, and uses that one.

I believe I replied to the above but you never answered - or I missed it.

What we need here is some verses that state that once we become saved it is not possible to forfeit our salvation.
Always seems like those that believe as you do are unable to come up with anything.

This is because OSAS is NOT biblical.

No one in the NT taught this damning doctrine.

If you care to post some verses, I'll be happy to go over them with you.

Otherwise, you know what I say:
It's just your opinion.

And we shouldn't be discussing YOUR opinion but what the NT actually teaches.

 

[GodsGrace]

Eternal Security is OSAS! and it is also the perseverance of the saints. Remember they needed a P for tulip and chose that. Look at the definition and not just the title of the acronym

Also your Galatians passage is not about salvation but about reaping rewards

Ronald,
I'm having a little problem with my alerts, so I'm sorry if I replied to the above already....

How is the following about reaping rewards?
You should read it carefully....it's in bold and has a source so it's not mine.
If you don't agree with it, you should state why.

This is how theological conversations take place.


Let's take another example, Galatians 6:9: "And let us not be weary in well doing; for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. The condition that must be met, before the promise to reap can be fulfilled, is that we must not faint. So if we faint, then it follows that we shall not reap.

But it also follows that if we have reaped, then it must be true that we did not faint. Otherwise, if we reaped and yet we did faint, then it must be true that we will reap whether we faint or not. This makes the conditional statement absolutely useless and the verse nonsensical: we shall reap if do not faint and we shall reap if we do faint. No matter what we do, we shall reap. But if this be the case, then Paul's warning against fainting is meaningless and utter nonsense. Why encourage people not to faint when in actuality it does not matter if they do or they don't.

source: Why Eternal Security Is Not a Biblical Doctrine

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes that's true about what Jesus said in Matt 7:1. I think it's almost human nature to find one's clique and who they can yoke with. On the one hand, we are not supposed to judge, but then on the other hand it's almost unavoidable to pass some judgements even if only subconsciously; doesn't make it right. Of course Jesus' teachings trump our personal opinions and theology. Btw, Jesus said nothing about OSAS.

We are supposed to judge person's ACTIONS...otherwise Matthew 18:15 makes no sense:

15“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
16“But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
17“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.


We are NOT supposed to judge a person's soul/salvation.
This is for God only to do and not us.

 

[GodsGrace]

Heb. 10 paraphrased:
For a person to count the shed blood of the New covenant of Jesus, wherewith he was sanctified by, an unholy thing, deserves more sorer (worse) punishment than those who who lived under the OC but had despised/hated the Law of Moses, and therefore died WITHOUT mercy.
It's called the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

So now you paraphrased.
Wow. Great.

Do the members on this Theology Forum not understand that we're discussing something serious herer?

Perhaps you could reply to MY post?
Explain WHY you don't agree with what I posted USING SCRIPTURE.

Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

They have nothing. Thats why they attack and bear false witness to take the focus off of them.

but anyone who is really looking will see.. so they hurt themselves

So what are the likes to reformed members EG?
You're a calvinist now?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes that's a good point. A good question for every Reformed theologian is if people can be saved without Calvin's teachings. I mean, they're doctrines, not Scripture. I think this is an important thing to be cognizant of because Christian denominations say a great many things and then after the fact attach Bible verses to those things.

Yes. Exactly.
Instead of taking away from scripture....they bring their own ideas to it.
This is eisegesis and is not the correct way to interpret scripture.

What I find very interesting is that any verse that is posted by a Calvinist could easily be debunked because it is NOT scriptural.
There will always be conflict caused by their understanding of it.

A member just told me that thinking we could seek God is a lie out of hell.
AFTER I posed 3 pages of verses that state that WE ARE TO SEEK GOD!!

It's truly unbelievable how brainwashed we could be.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes that's true about what Jesus said in Matt 7:1. I think it's almost human nature to find one's clique and who they can yoke with. On the one hand, we are not supposed to judge, but then on the other hand it's almost unavoidable to pass some judgements even if only subconsciously; doesn't make it right. Of course Jesus' teachings trump our personal opinions and theology. Btw, Jesus said nothing about OSAS.

Actually, Jesus said alot on it.

Before you attack and jodge others. maybe you should read jesus words himself. Read the book of John. OSAS is throughout the whole book. in fact. read the epistles of John. John spoke very fondly of it, As did Paul for that matter.

Human nature says you can be worthy. that you can earn salvation. thats what the pharisees thought, its why they rejected Christ, they wanted an earthly king not a savior..

You want to be like them feel free. You will suffer their same fate unless you repent

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I believe I replied to the above but you never answered - or I missed it.

What we need here is some verses that state that once we become saved it is not possible to forfeit our salvation.
Always seems like those that believe as you do are unable to come up with anything.

This is because OSAS is NOT biblical.

No one in the NT taught this damning doctrine.

If you care to post some verses, I'll be happy to go over them with you.

Otherwise, you know what I say:
It's just your opinion.

And we shouldn't be discussing YOUR opinion but what the NT actually teaches.

Once again.

John 3. 10 - 18 Never perish but has eternal life

John 3: 35-36 the believer HAS eternal life. the non believer has the wrath of God

John 4. Living water flowing to eternal life

John 5 - Whoever sees and believes has eternal life and shall not come into judgment. but has passed from death to life

John 6. The food which endures forever. whoever comes will never hunger or thirst. whoever believes will never die, live forever. and be raised on the last day.

its all over the place.. you keep denying jesus very words because you hate calvinism. It would be a shame if you end up on the wrong side just because you hate a doctrine so bad it has you blinded to the real truth

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So now you paraphrased.
Wow. Great.

Do the members on this Theology Forum not understand that we're discussing something serious herer?

Perhaps you could reply to MY post?
Explain WHY you don't agree with what I posted USING SCRIPTURE.

Thanks.

yes, peoples eternity is at stake

do we trust God or do we trust self..

the most important decision we will make

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So what are the likes to reformed members EG?
You're a calvinist now?

Nope.

I do agree to some of the things they say, Like I agree with some of the things you say.. Should we not agree where there is agreement, must we hate the one we disagree with in one area in all area's?