Scriptures that show that Christs death saved a person while in unbelief !

[brightfame52]

Christs death alone Justified many, hence acquitted them before Gods law and justice without their believing Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[ProDeo]

Its a big subject, ProDeo. One that has to be examined scripturally, not just theologically.

There was no adding to Scripture, just reasoning on Scripture already written. The Bible is a big book but it has no contradictions. There was only life or death offered to Adam…and also to Israel….there was no mention of “heaven or hell” until Christendom embraced the idea of an immortal soul. There is no such thing in the Bible.

I disagree….ECT is not in scripture for the simple reason that Jews did not believe in an afterlife…their Scripture never mentioned it. They would have their lives restored by resurrection, as Jesus demonstrated himself when he brought three people back to life. Those he restored to life had not gone anywhere, but were “sleeping” in death as the Bible says Lazarus was. (John 11:11-14)

It fits perfectly through the lens provided by the entirety of Scripture…..not the distorted lens provided by the churches of Christendom.
Think for a moment…”the lake of fire” is called what?…..“The second death”…right? Why is it called “the second death”, that makes it different to the first kind?

The first death is inherited from Adam and was defeated by Christ’s sacrifice….it is done away with by the promised resurrection…..(John 5:28-29) Death is the opposite of life, not a continuation of it somewhere else.
The second death will never be defeated because there is no mention of it ever being done away with…it remains as a place where any future rebel will find their place in utter annihilation….the second death is one from which no resurrection is possible…..eternal death is the opposite of eternal life….where did that clear Bible teaching get messed up? Who said eternal punishment cannot be the second death….? Who said death is not death?
Wasn’t it the devil who told the woman “you surely will not die”? An immortal soul was the perfect way to back up that lie. The demons have been impersonating the dead ever since. Why do we imagine that spirit mediums were banned in Israel?

If the dead are really dead as the Bible says that they are….with no thinking, no planning or any knowledge available to them, then there is nothing conscious to torment, is there? (Eccl 9:5, 10) You have to be alive to suffer. The dead are not alive.
Only the righteous are promised eternal life….in order to punish the wicked eternally, God would have to give them eternal life as well….that makes no sense.

Again where is this “outside of”? What is the “darkness” into which these people are thrown?
It is spiritual darkness whilst they are still alive in the flesh, but dead to God. We often see the “gnashing of their teeth” on these boards. It is exactly what the Pharisees did to Jesus…..he told them that they would not escape the judgment of “Gehenna“….the lake of fire….the second death…..permanent death is eternal punishment.

The Pharisees‘ future was laid out for them….they would forfeit life…never to be seen again. (Matt 23:33)

Look around you in the world and see them ProDeo…they are all dead in their trespasses, but alive and doing the will of their counterfeit god, abiding by the teachings of their counterfeit religions…and up to their necks in this world’s corrupt politics. (John 17:16; John 18:36)

“One day” will be too late….now is the time to choose whom you will serve…”the only true God”…(John 17:3) or “the god of this world”…(2 Cor 4:3-4) Most people can’t tell the difference….their beliefs are so ancient that they don’t dare question them, assuming that Christianity was never corrupted as early as the first century…..Satan’s most successful weapons are time and deception. The longer a deception is held to be true, the harder it is to dislodge it from our thinking processes.

When “the end” comes, there will only be “wheat and weeds” in the world….”sheep or goats”….so when Jesus arrives as judge, it will already be decided which category we have placed ourselves in. There is no fence to sit on wondering which way to go……Jesus said “whoever is not for me is against me”….so judging by Matt 7:21-23, “many” will be shocked at their rejection…trying to make excuses, as if Jesus doesn’t know his sheep…..and the sheep don’t know the voice of their shepherd.

We will be judged by whom we have accepted as our God, and what we have done with our lives in obedience to his commands, Jesus will know if we have been doing the will of his Father, or his enemy.

PART-ONE

And you doing it again, adding to (changing) Scripture, from the original post -

ME
Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” [ESV]
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. [KJV]
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.' [YLT]

YOU - in reply
Eternal death is eternal punishment...because it never ends

You added the word death, it's not what Jesus said.

---

PART-TWO - regarding second death

. God created mankind in Paradise to live with Him in His presence.
. When A&E sinned they were removed from His presence.
. As a result we are all born away from His presence.
. We are all born Spiritual death.
. When we are born again we become Spiritual alive, second death has no power over us.
. Those who die without repentance remain Spiritual death.
. And after judgement will face second death, removed from His presence forever.

Fits with -
Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Away from the presence of the Lord, forever, still alive, suffering, gnashing of teeth.

---

PART-THREE - threats ?

You are making a lot of threatening statements as if a difference in opinion about a hard topic is a salvation issue? Up to the point of using Matt 7:21-23?

YOU -
. “One day” will be too late….now is the time to choose whom you will serve…”
. When “the end” comes, there will only be “wheat and weeds” in the world….”sheep or goats”….
. We will be judged by whom we have accepted as our God, and what we have done with our lives in obedience to his commands, Jesus will know if we have been doing the will of his Father, or his enemy.
. Matt 7:21-23

I would like to ask, please offer Scripture for your judgements.

As far as I know we as born again Christians are judged by 1 Cor 3:12-15

1Cor 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
1Cor 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
1Cor 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Cor 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
1Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

---

Perhaps we should practice some faith like Abraham when God asked him to sacrifice Isaac?

Hebr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,
Hebr 11:18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”
Hebr 11:19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.

Abraham did not understand, Isaac was the long awaited promised son meant to become Israel and now God did ask him to kill him, how confusing this must have been. But Abraham trusted the Lord.

Abraham's faith on this issue is my choice on issues I don't fully understand.

YMMV

 

[Aunty Jane]

@ProDeo there is no point rehashing points one and two as I have provided scripture and sound reasoning on those points with as much clarity as I can. Accept them or reject them….that is your choice. But the bottom line is…’are the dead really dead…or are they alive somewhere else’?
One has to be alive and conscious to suffer torment, so where are the dead? Where did God tell Adam that he would go if he ate the fruit that God had claimed as his own property? What did God mean when he said “you will surely die”?
Here is the sentence that God passed on him….

”In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Gen 3:19)

Adam would go back to where he came from…..where was that? He did not exist.
No ‘afterlife’ of any description was ever mentioned, which if “hell“ existed, Adam would surely have gone there as the one who was willfully responsible for the death of the whole human race who descended from him.

PART-THREE - threats ?

Threats?……or consequences? Did God ‘threaten’ Adam with death, or did he warn him of the consequences of his actions? Are we not also warned about the consequences of our own choices and actions?
The choice was very simple….’obey and live….disobey and die’.
Are our own choices any more complicated?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are making a lot of threatening statements as if a difference in opinion about a hard topic is a salvation issue? Up to the point of using Matt 7:21-23?

YOU -
. “One day” will be too late….now is the time to choose whom you will serve…”
. When “the end” comes, there will only be “wheat and weeds” in the world….”sheep or goats”….
. We will be judged by whom we have accepted as our God, and what we have done with our lives in obedience to his commands, Jesus will know if we have been doing the will of his Father, or his enemy.
. Matt 7:21-23

I would like to ask, please offer Scripture for your judgements.

I did offer the ‘consequences’ very clearly.…but Jesus is the judge, not me. We cannot fool him as easily as we can fool ourselves.
Jesus offered the same outcome to those who at the judgment, (which he foretold with equal clarity) will be found NOT “doing the will of his Father in heaven”. (Matt 7:21-23) Those who claim him as their “Lord” are not automatically accepted by him…..so what is it that will “separate the wheat from the weeds”?…the “sheep from the goats”?…….the true Christians from the counterfeit ones who would be the majority in the world in these “last days”? (Matt 7:13-14) “Few” will be found on the road to life.

What separated the Christians from the Jews in the first century, as both claimed to worship the same God?

History is repeating right in front of us. The majority who claim to be “Christians” are not, because they are part of an ancient global “church” system who have contaminated their worship with man-made doctrines and traditional celebrations that have no place in a Christian’s worship. Just like the first century Jews, they had accepted as true worship, things that were not commanded by God, leading Jesus to say….

”You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matt 15:7-9)

The doctrines they accepted, which Christ rejected, made their worship “invalid”. (Matt 15:7-9)

Paul too warned….
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” 18 “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

What masquerades as “Christianity” today is nothing but a disunited sham, promoting everything that Christ condemned. Tell me where the church system of any nation is not, and had not always been, up to their necks in the politics of this world, whom the Bible says is ruled by the devil. (1 John 5:19)

1 John 5:3-5….
”For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome, 4 because everyone who has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith.
5 Who can conquer the world? Is it not the one who has faith that Jesus is the Son of God?”

‘Conquering the world’ is a spiritual action, not a physical one that involves participation in politics and in political decisions and actions. We are not to be part of any of that. (John 17:16; John 18:36)

1 John 5:18-20…
”We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin, but the one born from God watches him, and the wicked one cannot take hold of him. 19 We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. 20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us insight so that we may gain the knowledge of the one who is true. And we are in union with the one who is true, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.”

Meddling in a world ruled by the devil is a dangerous business, when Jesus told us to be no part of it and its despicable conduct. Even consenting to the bloodshed of war makes us complicit. Our citizenship is in a heavenly government, one led by God’s son and his chosen ones. We cannot be loyal to an earthly government whilst holding citizenship in another “nation” (God’s nation)….dual citizenship is not offered because satan is the ruler of the world we are forced to live in….for now.

How we conduct ourselves now in this world, will determine our future, and demonstrate where our loyalty truly is.

 

[ProDeo]

@Aunty Jane

I have only 2 things to say -

Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

And you said, no Jesus you are wrong, because..............

---

Matt 11:13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John,
Matt 11:14 and if you are willing to accept it, he [John the Baptist] is Elijah who is to come.
Matt 11:15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

And you said, sorry Jesus you are wrong again, because..........

---

You like to live dangerously.

 

[Aunty Jane]

As far as I know we as born again Christians are judged by 1 Cor 3:12-15

1Cor 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
1Cor 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
1Cor 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Cor 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
1Cor 3:16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

Again we have interpretation to deal with as it seems we have with many other issues…..
There, Paul speaks of a Christian building work, outlining materials and building on a good foundation. The principle of his illustration can apply to both the internal and external ministry. Does he imply that whether a disciple finally chooses to serve God and stays by that choice is entirely the responsibility of those who taught and trained him? No.

Paul was emphasizing the importance of the teacher’s doing the best possible building work.…..he was not saying that the student or disciple has no choice in the matter. What he/she builds on that foundation is up to them, but we as their teacher have to do our very best to impart what Christ has taught us. We can see by the building materials listed, that they go all the way from precious gold to combustible hay and straw. The disciples themselves will choose the materials based on their own heart condition….and the amount of effort they put into building themselves to become part of God’s spiritual Temple…one of his “saints”.

The “fire” will test out how well that foundation was built on….but the builder is not responsible for the outcome. The disciples themselves have to put in the effort. Shoddy materials will not build a strong house, and as the illustration Jesus made of the house built on sand or rock…our foundation has to be solid, or the whole building, no matter how well it is constructed, will collapse when the “storm” comes…..and it is coming soon.

Paul’s illustration focuses on the work we do in others, not just the building up of ourselves. This is evident because Paul speaks of slipshod building work as being destroyed while the builder himself is saved. Nonetheless, the Bible does at times apply that same figure of speech to the work that we do in ourselves.

Perhaps we should practice some faith like Abraham when God asked him to sacrifice Isaac?

Hebr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,
Hebr 11:18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.”
Hebr 11:19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.

Abraham did not understand, Isaac was the long awaited promised son meant to become Israel and now God did ask him to kill him, how confusing this must have been. But Abraham trusted the Lord.

Abraham's faith on this issue is my choice on issues I don't fully understand.

Exactly, but what Abraham knew was enough to build faith and trust in what his God commanded, no matter whether he fully understood the command or not. We too must have that same kind of faith…..Abraham knew what he believed, and he lived his faith. He knew his God was not unreasonable nor unreasonably demanding, so if God wanted this to take place, he knew that God had a reason and he was confident that Isaac’s life would be restored because so much was riding on his continued life…..the coming of the Messiah rested on it.

This is not the same as “blind faith”….our faith has no basis for that kind of ‘blindness’….it is the devil who blinds people so that they never see the truth about anything. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

There should be no room for doubt as to how and why God does what he does in this “time of the end”. He does not expect us to blindly follow an unfamiliar path…..he lights the way and as the day for judgment approaches, (Prov 4:18)…..he teaches his people how to extract themselves from “Babylon the great”….he has clearly identified that harlot for the religious fraud that she is……she is a global empire of the devil’s making, designed to siphon off worship for himself…..stay in her clutches and you will go down with her….not my words, but Christ’s from his God and Father…(read Rev 18 and see who are mourning her demise.)

Look at the state of the world and realize where we are in the stream of time…..satan and his hordes are pulling out all the stops now as the day draws near for their imprisonment…..the day of judgment is almost upon us….so are we “sheep or goats”?….”wheat or weeds”? Jesus knows, but the majority do not.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane

I have only 2 things to say -

Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

And you said, no Jesus you are wrong, because..............

---

Matt 11:13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John,
Matt 11:14 and if you are willing to accept it, he [John the Baptist] is Elijah who is to come.
Matt 11:15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

And you said, sorry Jesus you are wrong again, because..........

---

You like to live dangerously.

Like I said…you can double down on the things you believe in spite of being shown the opposite in Scripture itself….but at the end of the day, we will all answer to the same judge…..is it you who is living dangerously because you cannot be told the uncomfortable truth but instead prefer the comfortable lies?…..your choice.

 

[TheHC]

Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (KJV)….

“Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”

“Everlasting destruction” would be the opposite of “everlasting life.”

Really, if someone was tormented forever & ever, they would have to be alive to experience it.

But life is a “gift” (Romans 6:23), not used for punishment.

 

[ProDeo]

@Aunty Jane
@TheHC

Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

Humans will be tormented, notable in the presence of Jesus, contrary to JW belief that says, no no, God does not do such things, the crime doesn't fit the punishment, that kind of human reasoning.

But keep on denying.

---

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Matt 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

More humans (thus, not only those who worship the beast) tormented day and night forever and ever.

Is Scripture in error, or you?

 

[brightfame52]

God by the Death of Christ has reconciled many for whom Chrisr died, by His death even while they are being enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now being thus reconciled they are not under any condemnation from God even as unbelievers, Thanks solely to the Death of Christ.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Is Scripture in error, or you?

I believe that it is your interpretation of Scripture that is colored by your belief in a conscious part of humans that survives death……which the Bible does not teach. All of the things mentioned in the verses you quoted mean that the people are still alive…..receiving the mark of the beast and receiving God’s punishment….only a living being can suffer. Are the wicked still alive? What then is death? (Eccl 9:5,10)

Rev 14:11 mentions “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever”….it doesn’t say that the torment goes on forever.
Have you ever see the aftermath of a bushfire? What keeps ascending as a reminder of what happened there. The smoke of the shouldering remains keeps ascending for days, sometimes weeks after the fire was contained.

I went through such a fire in recent years here in Australia and I can say that once a fire goes through, only ashes remain. In the Bible, fire is a fitting symbol for complete destruction.

 

[marks]

One of the most disappointing things about religion these days, that goes in the name of Christianity, and claims to believe in Christ, and what He accomplished on the Cross by suffering and dying for sin, is that it didn't guarantee no ones salvation. Im going to show that scripture declares without a shadow of doubt that Christs death, burial and resurrection saves a person even while they are unbelievers, and enemies. Even then that God himself is reconciled to them.

The first scripture is Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Thats being saved from Gods penalty of sin and received into His favor even while an enemy to God !

Rather, we must receive the reconciliation, as shown in:

Romans 5:10-11 LITV
10) For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life;
11) and not only so, but also glorying in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now received the reconciliation.

We "were" reconciled, we "now" receive the reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:18-20 LITV
18) And all things are from God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation,
19) as, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not charging their deviations to them, and having put the Word of reconciliation in us.
20) Then on behalf of Christ, we are ambassadors, as God is exhorting through us, we beseech on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God.

God reconciled us to Himself, now we are urged to be reconciled to God. This is referring to receiving the reconciliation.

Much love!

 

[TheHC]

Is Scripture in error, or you?

My cousin,
I posted to you what 2 Thess.1:9 says… punishment is “eternal destruction”. Are we to assume, then, that the Bible is contradicting itself? Of course not.

So how can these verses agree with each other?

Please consider how the Greek “basanistes” of the root word “basanos” is used, at Matthew 18:34….

Matthew 18:34 - The Unforgiving Servant

In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

biblehub.com

-and-

Matthew 18:34 - The Unforgiving Servant

In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

biblehub.com

Please notice how the word is translated either “jailer” or “tormenter”.

See that?
So “jailed’ can be substituted here for “tormented”.

With regard to using “basanistes” for “prison” or “jailer” at Matt.18:34, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: “Probably the imprisonment itself was regarded as ‘torment’ (as it doubtless was), and the ‘tormentors’ need mean nothing more than jailers.” (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. V, p. 2999).
So mentioning those who will be “tormented day and night forever and ever” in Revelation 20:10, can indicate that these ones will be “jailed” in restraint, like death definitely would be.

And where Revelation 20:10 uses “basanisthēsontai” (a form of “basanos”), “they will be tormented” forever and ever, it can read “they will be jailed / imprisoned” forever and ever.

Remember, some Bible versions translate words to suit their doctrine.

As I’m sure you’re aware,
you’re quoting texts that have a lot of symbolic language.

“Fire,” for instance, is symbolic, representing complete & lasting destruction, as used in these passages.
Take Revelation 20:14….’death is cast into the Lake of Fire.’

Can death be burned? No.
In the very next chapter though, at Revelation 21:4, it says “death will be no more” …gone forever. As if ‘thrown into fire.’

When you throw something into fire, it ain’t ever coming back.

 

[brightfame52]

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is salvation, the forgiveness of sins, simply through Christs Blood. Everyone Christ died for has this forgiveness while in unbelief.

Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 2

 

[brightfame52]

@marks

Rather, we must receive the reconciliation, as shown in:

False, even though it will be received by the reconciled, the truth is they were reconciled to God by Christs death, before they received it, and while being an enemy. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So receiving it in Vs 11 is the fruit of reconciliation, not the cause of it

 

[marks]

@marks



False, even though it will be received by the reconciled, the truth is they were reconciled to God by Christs death, before they received it, and while being an enemy. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So receiving it in Vs 11 is the fruit of reconciliation, not the cause of it

I can forgive you, and you be reconciled to me, but if you don't want to have relationship with me, then we are still separated.

Much love!

 

[brightfame52]

I can forgive you, and you be reconciled to me, but if you don't want to have relationship with me, then we are still separated.

Much love!

Its a fact, they were reconciled [past tense done deal] to God by Christs death while being enemies, doesnt matter what the person wants, its what God willed and Christs death did.

 

[marks]

Its a fact, they were reconciled [past tense done deal] to God by Christs death while being enemies, doesnt matter what the person wants, its what God willed and Christs death did.

Why does God urge you to be reconciled to Him?

2 Corinthians 5:20 LITV
20) Then on behalf of Christ, we are ambassadors, as God is exhorting through us, we beseech on behalf of Christ, Be reconciled to God.

Answer . . . because He wants us to be reconciled to Him, by receiving the reconciliation.

Anyway . . . it's what the Bible says.

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

My cousin,
I posted to you what 2 Thess.1:9 says… punishment is “eternal destruction”. Are we to assume, then, that the Bible is contradicting itself? Of course not.

You could have posted 2 Petr 3:7 as well -

But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

So how can these verses agree with each other?

They don't.

Said that from the start of the discussion.

Please consider how the Greek “basanistes” of the root word “basanos” is used, at Matthew 18:34….

Matthew 18:34 - The Unforgiving Servant

In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

biblehub.com

-and-

Matthew 18:34 - The Unforgiving Servant

In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed.

biblehub.com

Please notice how the word is translated either “jailer” or “tormenter”.

See that?
So “jailed’ can be substituted here for “tormented”.

With regard to using “basanistes” for “prison” or “jailer” at Matt.18:34, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: “Probably the imprisonment itself was regarded as ‘torment’ (as it doubtless was), and the ‘tormentors’ need mean nothing more than jailers.” (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. V, p. 2999).
So mentioning those who will be “tormented day and night forever and ever” in Revelation 20:10, can indicate that these ones will be “jailed” in restraint, like death definitely would be.

And where Revelation 20:10 uses “basanisthēsontai” (a form of “basanos”), “they will be tormented” forever and ever, it can read “they will be jailed / imprisoned” forever and ever.

Remember, some Bible versions translate words to suit their doctrine.

As I’m sure you’re aware,
you’re quoting texts that have a lot of symbolic language.

“Fire,” for instance, is symbolic, representing complete & lasting destruction, as used in these passages.
Take Revelation 20:14….’death is cast into the Lake of Fire.’

Can death be burned? No.
In the very next chapter though, at Revelation 21:4, it says “death will be no more” …gone forever. As if ‘thrown into fire.’

When you throw something into fire, it ain’t ever coming back.

This is funny, you use Matt.18:34, a verse used by the adherents of purgatory

Matt 18:34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. [ESV]
Matt 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.

Matt 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [KJV]
Matt 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Matt 18:34 And having been wroth, his lord delivered him to the inquisitors, till he might pay all that was owing to him; [YLT]
Matt 18:35 so also my heavenly Father will do to you, if ye may not forgive each one his brother from your hearts their trespasses.

 

[Lambano]

Its a fact, they were reconciled [past tense done deal] to God by Christs death while being enemies, doesnt matter what the person wants, its what God willed and Christs death did.

"Reconciliation", the restoration of a broken relationship, requires action from both parties. That's just how relationships work.

God did His part. Now Paul urges whoever will listen to do their part and "be reconciled" to God.