Perseverance of the Saints is different from Once Saved Always Saved

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. Exactly.
Instead of taking away from scripture....they bring their own ideas to it.
This is eisegesis and is not the correct way to interpret scripture.

What I find very interesting is that any verse that is posted by a Calvinist could easily be debunked because it is NOT scriptural.
There will always be conflict caused by their understanding of it.

A member just told me that thinking we could seek God is a lie out of hell.
AFTER I posed 3 pages of verses that state that WE ARE TO SEEK GOD!!

It's truly unbelievable how brainwashed we could be.

See. to you it is about debunking calvinism.

instead of trying to debunk everything they say, Look at everything they say, Not everyone is 100% correct. even ourselves.. If we look with what we do agree. we may be able to show them the areas we do not agree.. and we and or they may learn the parts we or they got wrong.. Otherwise, its an us vs them, and no one will learn anything, just keep throwing their fist up in defiance and try to defend themselves.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You didn't repost my Galatians passage and explain how it's about rewards.
That would be greatly appreciated.

Is this the Theology Forum or the Let's Have A Chat Forum??

I'm honestly confused by these members that do not use scripture.
Theology is a serious subject and scripture must be provided.
Personal opinion is not valid when discussing God.

And you say P needs to be defined?

How's this for a definition.
From John Calvin:

...for there is an universal call, by which God, through the external preaching of the word, invites all men alike, even those for whom he designs the call to be a savor of death, and the ground of a severer condemnation. Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts. Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion
Book 3
Chapter 24
Paragraph 8


I truly wonder how any Calvinist could feel eternally secure.

Well I will not attempt to defend JOhn Calvin but Scripture.

But as for eternal security or P=perseverance of the saints?

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Colossians 3:2-4

King James Version

​

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Gal. 6:

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

rewards or loss are not just for eternity. But if we live a semi ungodly life- we shall suffer while we live in it. If we live godly- we reap the benefits of the Spirit.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald,
I'm having a little problem with my alerts, so I'm sorry if I replied to the above already....

How is the following about reaping rewards?
You should read it carefully....it's in bold and has a source so it's not mine.
If you don't agree with it, you should state why.

This is how theological conversations take place.


Let's take another example, Galatians 6:9: "And let us not be weary in well doing; for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. The condition that must be met, before the promise to reap can be fulfilled, is that we must not faint. So if we faint, then it follows that we shall not reap.

But it also follows that if we have reaped, then it must be true that we did not faint. Otherwise, if we reaped and yet we did faint, then it must be true that we will reap whether we faint or not. This makes the conditional statement absolutely useless and the verse nonsensical: we shall reap if do not faint and we shall reap if we do faint. No matter what we do, we shall reap. But if this be the case, then Paul's warning against fainting is meaningless and utter nonsense. Why encourage people not to faint when in actuality it does not matter if they do or they don't.

source: Why Eternal Security Is Not a Biblical Doctrine

Okay. As Paul is giving an agricultrue example, let us keep with it.

A farmer plants a field of corn.-- He prepared the soil and then put the seed in. He must water and care and weed the field so the seed may grow. As it grows he must do what he can to keep critters away and continue to water and weed etc. If he continues, He will reap a good harvest. If he plants the seed and does nothing, the seeds will be choked out or eaten or dry out etc. and give him no crop.

Salvation is apart from works ( Eph. 2:8-9) But living the fruitful ife and receiving all God has for you is conditioned on us living an obedient life (Eph 2:10)

 

[Runningman]

Actually, Jesus said alot on it.

Before you attack and jodge others. maybe you should read jesus words himself. Read the book of John. OSAS is throughout the whole book. in fact. read the epistles of John. John spoke very fondly of it, As did Paul for that matter.

Human nature says you can be worthy. that you can earn salvation. thats what the pharisees thought, its why they rejected Christ, they wanted an earthly king not a savior..

You want to be like them feel free. You will suffer their same fate unless you repent

Already read the Bible. A lot. There is nothing for me to mention in the Bible about OSAS. First of all, it is never plainly stated or described. If you mean that after you have been given eternal life, something you have not been given yet, that you would be OSAS then that would be correct. Right now, OSAS doesn't apply to anyone except Jesus.

I would also pose to you a simple question for self-reflection; saved from what? Jesus saved them from their sins. If you mean OSAS applies to salvation from sins then that isn't true either. Though God's mercy and grace run deep, there are limitations on the abuse and insults He will patiently tolerate. It's possible to lose one's sin sacrifice in the New Covenant; therefore OSAS is not correct regarding salvation from sins either. See Galatians 5:4, Hebrews 10:26-28 and 1 John 1:7 for starters.

Now if you have some Scripture that explains or describes what you are saying then I am totally open to hearing about it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Already read the Bible. A lot. There is nothing for me to mention in the Bible about OSAS. First of all, it is never plainly stated or described. If you mean that after you have been given eternal life, something you have not been given yet, that you would be OSAS then that would be correct. Right now, OSAS doesn't apply to anyone except Jesus.

Jesus said whoever believes HAS IT.

John said he wrote a whole few chapters so we can know we HAVE IT.

so if you think we do nto have it yet. you have not been reading very well

I would also pose to you a simple question for self-reflection; saved from what?

Saved from death, or seperation from God. or the wage of sin.

the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life..,

Jesus saved them from their sins. If you mean OSAS applies to salvation from sins then that isn't true either.

If it is not true, no one is saved, and we will never be saved.

Though God's mercy and grace run deep, there are limitations on the abuse and insults He will patiently tolerate. It's possible to lose one's sin sacrifice in the New Covenant; therefore OSAS is not correct regarding salvation from sins either. See Galatians 5:4, Hebrews 10:26-28 and 1 John 1:7 for starters.

So there are limits on grace? Do what? do you even know what grace means? Your limited Gods mercy?? lol. now i have heard everything

Now if you have some Scripture that explains or describes what you are saying then I am totally open to hearing about it.

I already gave them to you and you rejected them. You said we do not have eternal life yet, Yet the very verses I gave said we do. a completed action.

If you can not hear these words. You will not hear anything God has to say through me

 

[Runningman]

Jesus said whoever believes HAS IT.

John said he wrote a whole few chapters so we can know we HAVE IT.

so if you think we do nto have it yet. you have not been reading very well

Since eternal life is a gift and God's gifts are irrevocable then you might want to have a chit chat with Mr. Judas Iscariot because he was both promised eternal life and was a believer, but was ultimately lost for his extreme wickedness.

Saved from death, or seperation from God. or the wage of sin.

the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life..,

...after the judgement is when Jesus taught people receive eternal life. (Matthew 25:46, Luke 20:34-36, John 5:29)

Paul taught the same things about eternal life being a future, post judgement, gift for those counted worthy. (Romans 2:6-8)

If it is not true, no one is saved, and we will never be saved.

How so?

So there are limits on grace? Do what? do you even know what grace means? Your limited Gods mercy?? lol. now i have heard everything

No Bible verse that says God's grace is infinite, yet those who go on sinning and abandon the faith will not be saved. Do that math.

I already gave them to you and you rejected them. You said we do not have eternal life yet, Yet the very verses I gave said we do. a completed action.

You gave me a prophecy by Jesus and I believe it.

If you can not hear these words. You will not hear anything God has to say through me

Ditto.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus teaching on eternal life is this, and Christ acknowledges this life comes from God the Father.
As in those who hear and believe God sent Christ, have passed from death into life right now.
About hearing Christ, those who Hear Christ are of God, as meaning God is their Father God and so they then by nature Hear and Believe in Christ. They are spiritually minded, spiritually alive to God, born again of the Spirit, so they are now of God. This hearing and life is God's gift to them and for backup also refer to Jesus saying the same thing in John 3, 6 and 8.

You must be first born again to be of God, hear Christ's words and believe.
Not all hear, if they don't hear they will not live.

John 8
19 Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?”

Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.”

26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”

29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him.” 30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him.

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me,

(born again, spiritually minded, now having God as your Father, of God, not of the flesh.
Those who live according to the spirit, means they live as God has made the alive from the dead)

Romans 8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.


for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil,
(of course they cannot hear Christ, they are not enabled to listen to Christ by God as they are of Satan, spiritually dead.)

and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
(of God meaning God is your Father, not the devil, and only way you get God as your Father God is to be begotten again, born of God by the Spirit of God, makes sense even in the natural as your parent bore you and you are their child, belonging to them, like Father, like Son, like You, you are now of the family of God. And our God makes everything work to your good, being the best Father you can ever have who gives you life.)

John 5

Life​

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

Judgement

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since eternal life is a gift and God's gifts are irrevocable then you might want to have a chit chat with Mr. Judas Iscariot because he was both promised eternal life and was a believer, but was ultimately lost for his extreme wickedness.

why would I talk to a person Jesus called an unbeliever, and of the devil (john 6)?

...after the judgement is when Jesus taught people receive eternal life. (Matthew 25:46, Luke 20:34-36, John 5:29)

No. Jesus said whoever believes WILL (not might) never perish, and HAS (not might have) Eternal life

Paul taught the same things about eternal life being a future, post judgement, gift for those counted worthy. (Romans 2:6-8)

Paul taught to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord. He also taught we are saved by grace through faith and no works are involved, and called the galations fools for thinking otherwise.

How so?

Because they would still be dead in their sin.

either the penalty of sin was paid in full on the cross (it is finished) or it was not and we are all still dead

No Bible verse that says God's grace is infinite, yet those who go on sinning and abandon the faith will not be saved. Do that math.

Gods grace is his mercy, And it can not be earned. If it is grace it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Gods grace is infinate.

Whoever believes (recieved his gift) is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.

will you believe?

You gave me a prophecy by Jesus and I believe it.

You did not believe what Jesus said about whoever believes in him, what they HAVE

Ditto.

You have not shown me anything, are you the same runningman that was on Christianchat.com awhile ago?

 

[Scott Downey]

Since eternal life is a gift and God's gifts are irrevocable then you might want to have a chit chat with Mr. Judas Iscariot because he was both promised eternal life and was a believer, but was ultimately lost for his extreme wickedness.

...after the judgement is when Jesus taught people receive eternal life. (Matthew 25:46, Luke 20:34-36, John 5:29)

Paul taught the same things about eternal life being a future, post judgement, gift for those counted worthy. (Romans 2:6-8)



How so?


No Bible verse that says God's grace is infinite, yet those who go on sinning and abandon the faith will not be saved. Do that math.


You gave me a prophecy by Jesus and I believe it.


Ditto.

Judas Jesus called him a devil and a son of hell.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Judas Jesus called him a devil and a son of hell.

You just have to love when people bring Judas up.. It shows something is missing.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Predictable. Now you're playing the victim when people expose what you are behind your thinly-veiled guise of self-righteousness and fake piety. It doesn't take much to see right through it, though, since you already exposed yourself by immediately suggesting I'm going to hell, sinning, and a number of other accusations which are all false.

I don't know you and with this being my first impression, I don't think you are a Christian Elect. There is no Christ-like demeanor or fruits to behold.

I am under the impression this is your defense mechanism because you don't like your beliefs being spoken critically of. Well, this is a theology forum so there may be some debating and tough pills to swallow. I assure you, it's nothing personal and no one is mad at you. God still loves you even though you are wrong, too. So my recommendation to you is work on your attitude and temperament.

It's a mercy for me to just not reply to you. The less you have to latch onto, the less it will provoke you to be unsavory. This will be my last reply to you unless I observe some noticeable improvement.

Thank you for your personal testimony after your own introspection.

Everything you stated is reflected in your posts.

It's like the Democrats idol Alinsky model unfolded here.
Blame the other guy for your offenses and draw people's attention away from your own corruption.

Your "theology" is wrong. And contrary to Scripture. Period.

The self righteous closure in your post is sickening.

You attacking Biblically grounded Christians doesn't change the truth of that fact.You reject truth and correction.

And, you assail the Gospel in order to promote false teaching. Then you play the martyr claiming Christians here who teach Gospel truth are wrong.


Yeshua,Jesus died to secure eternal Salvation for His Elect.

Of all that the Father gives Him,He shall lose none. John 10.

"... I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


The Elect are eternally secure. That really upsets God's adversaries.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for your personal testimony after your own introspection.

Everything you stated is reflected in your posts.

It's like the Democrats idol Alinsky model unfolded here.
Blame the other guy for your offenses and draw people's attention away from your own corruption.

Your "theology" is wrong. And contrary to Scripture. Period.

The self righteous closure in your post is sickening.

You attacking Biblically grounded Christians doesn't change the truth of that fact.You reject truth and correction.

And, you assail the Gospel in order to promote false teaching. Then you play the martyr claiming Christians here who teach Gospel truth are wrong.


Yeshua,Jesus died to secure eternal Salvation for His Elect.

Of all that the Father gives Him,He shall lose none. John 10.

"... I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


The Elect are eternally secure. That really upsets God's adversaries.

I think the term elect is what get people riled up. Its a term used by Calvinism, which is a denomination or theology alot of people hate.

I would rather use the term, gods children. Which is a better word.

But as many as have recieved him, to them he gave the right to become children.. These are the ones who have eternal life, eternal security, and the seal of the HS

 

[BlessedPeace]

I think the term elect is what get people riled up. Its a term used by Calvinism, which is a denomination or theology alot of people hate.

I would rather use the term, gods children. Which is a better word.

But as many as have recieved him, to them he gave the right to become children.. These are the ones who have eternal life, eternal security, and the seal of the HS

I'm full grown,not a child.

I don't change God's words to placate a bunch of what comport themselves as anti-Yeshua Trolls who live to cast dirt on Christ's Work.

They're lazy too. They don't even learn what Calvinism teaches in order to counter its actual doctrine. A doctrine that is actually grounded in Scripture.

The Elect, Election, are Scriptural terms. That Troll trigger isn't use of the term,The Elect. The Troll trigger is also, Eternal Salvation, Eternal Life.

Will you find alternative terms for those Scriptural assurances so to placate the Adversaries minions?

If we can't hold to the words that relate the Gospel Truth of The Lord while keying responses on an Internet forum, what strength shall we example when we meet its enemies off line and face to face?

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

2Timothy 4:2-4

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

What Does the Bible Say About Dont Placate Enemies Of Gospel?

Bible verses about Dont Placate Enemies Of Gospel

www.openbible.info

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm full grown,not a child.

I don't change God's words to placate a bunch of what comport themselves as anti-Yeshua Trolls who live to cast dirt on Christ's Work.

They're lazy too. They don't even learn what Calvinism teaches in order to counter its actual doctrine. A doctrine that is actually grounded in Scripture.

The Elect, Election, are Scriptural terms. That Troll trigger isn't use of the term,The Elect. The Troll trigger is also, Eternal Salvation, Eternal Life.

Will you find alternative terms for those Scriptural assurances so to placate the Adversaries minions?

If we can't hold to the words that relate the Gospel Truth of The Lord while keying responses on an Internet forum, what strength shall we example when we meet its enemies off line and face to face?

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

2Timothy 4:2-4

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

What Does the Bible Say About Dont Placate Enemies Of Gospel?

Bible verses about Dont Placate Enemies Of Gospel

www.openbible.info

Well i disagree that Calvin is grounded in scripture.

I was just tryign to make a suggestion. Most of these fights are calvin vs arminian.. and the people fighting can not see outside these two variables.

I was just suggesting maybe use a different term that is also biblical.

I am elect to be conformed to his image amen

I am also called a child of God..

 

[Runningman]

why would I talk to a person Jesus called an unbeliever, and of the devil (john 6)?

Read about him. You will find he was empowered to do miracles and preach the gospel. He was also told he would receive eternal life.

No. Jesus said whoever believes WILL (not might) never perish, and HAS (not might have) Eternal life

Yes and amen... after the resurrection. Jesus taught eternal life was after the resurrection in Matthew 25:46, Luke 20:34-36, John 5:29. So the resurrection is a future event and didn't happen now. What's your take on Jesus' teachings saying such?

Paul taught to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord. He also taught we are saved by grace through faith and no works are involved, and called the galations fools for thinking otherwise.

He said is was "willing" to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. That isn't the same thing as actually being with the Lord. Yes, Paul said saved by grace through faith, but said a lot of other things, too. Paul taught the Galatians it's possible to fall from grace (Galatians 5:4) and warned them to stop sinning because "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." in Galatians 5:21.

Why would Paul tell people who are "OSAS" to stop being sinners if not inheriting the kingdom of God was not a possibility?

Because they would still be dead in their sin.

either the penalty of sin was paid in full on the cross (it is finished) or it was not and we are all still dead

The only promise God made in the New Covenant is to forgive your sins and remember them no more on a conditional basis. The conditions are you are actively pursuing righteousness and what is pleasing to Him. Jesus taught this, Paul taught this, it was standard Christian orthodoxy in the early church. See Matthew 7:21-23, Romans 2:5-8.

Gods grace is his mercy, And it can not be earned. If it is grace it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Gods grace is infinate.

Please define what you believe grace means?

Whoever believes (recieved his gift) is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.

Believing isn't just head knowledge, but actively doing. If you say you're a believer and living an unrepentant life of sin then I am afraid you will be rudely awakened one day. With something as important as salvation, now is not the time to be playing around with the itching ears doctrines that your church told you about.

will you believe?

I already believe. You're speaking to a Christian.

You did not believe what Jesus said about whoever believes in him, what they HAVE

If you're a believer you'll obey Jesus and pursue the righteousness he taught his followers to pursue.

Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Runningman]

Of all that the Father gives Him,He shall lose none. John 10.

"... I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”


The Elect are eternally secure. That really upsets God's adversaries.

Hey look here. You can actually quote Scripture.

So, let's take a look here. The Father gave Jesus the authority to give eternal life to those who He gave him. Right?

John 17​

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.​

And yet, despite Judas being given to Jesus he was still lost. It isn't that anyone was snatched out of anyone's hand, but rather sheep do go astray and "if" they are found they are restored. (Matthew 18:13)

John 17​

12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.​

So according to Scripture, Judas was given to Jesus therefore it follows he was given eternal life, but later lost. So your doctrine of eternal security has been debunked by an example of someone who demonstrably lost their salvation in the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

are you the same runningman that was on Christianchat.com awhile ago?

I am replying to this question separately because it's a different topic and yes I was on that site over a year ago, but they banned me and I am okay with that. I am not a Trinitarian and I didn't know it was against their rules to not be so when the topic came up they just banned me, a decision very few people agreed with btw. People actually liked debating that topic with me and generally speaking I was well-liked. I do miss the friends I had there. I hope they are doing well!

edit: and come to think of it, I remember you also. Actually, I think you were the only one who didn't like me and probably the one who reported me.

 

[JLB]

Christians are in the Kingdom of God, and only righteousness is found there..

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Read about him. You will find he was empowered to do miracles and preach the gospel. He was also told he would receive eternal life.

I did read about him

Judas was a non believer in the begining

John 6: 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

How can a non believer be saved?

Yes and amen... after the resurrection. Jesus taught eternal life was after the resurrection in Matthew 25:46, Luke 20:34-36, John 5:29. So the resurrection is a future event and didn't happen now. What's your take on Jesus' teachings saying such?

The ressurection is a future event, I have eternal life now.

He said is was "willing" to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. That isn't the same thing as actually being with the Lord. Yes, Paul said saved by grace through faith, but said a lot of other things, too. Paul taught the Galatians it's possible to fall from grace (Galatians 5:4) and warned them to stop sinning because "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." in Galatians 5:21.

lol.. Talk about totally destroying the word..

Why would paul say he was willing to be absent from the body if he did not know he would be present.

Paul did not contradict himself and He said if it is grace it is no longer of works..

Your right, people who practice sin and John said have never known or seen God.. they did not lose salvation they never had it

Why would Paul tell people who are "OSAS" to stop being sinners if not inheriting the kingdom of God was not a possibility?

He did not tell them to cease from all sin.. why would he tell them to do something they could never do?

The only promise God made in the New Covenant is to forgive your sins and remember them no more on a conditional basis. The conditions are you are actively pursuing righteousness and what is pleasing to Him. Jesus taught this, Paul taught this, it was standard Christian orthodoxy in the early church. See Matthew 7:21-23, Romans 2:5-8.

Then you are putting people under law

Please define what you believe grace means?

Unmerited favor.. it is the opposite of a reward or wage which is merited favor.

Believing isn't just head knowledge, but actively doing.

Believing is not even even demons believe,, You must have true saving faith.

is your faith in God or how good you are and your works?

If you say you're a believer and living an unrepentant life of sin then I am afraid you will be rudely awakened one day. With something as important as salvation, now is not the time to be playing around with the itching ears doctrines that your church told you about.

A believer can not live an unreprentent life of sin. DO you even read the bible??

I already believe. You're speaking to a Christian.

That has yet to be determined

If you're a believer you'll obey Jesus and pursue the righteousness he taught his followers to pursue.

Because you have faith in God. not to earn your salvation or keep from losing it

Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice.

He did not say he knew tham and they lost salvation. He said I NEVER KNEW YOU.

the very verse you used to prove me wrong. proves me right.. thank you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am replying to this question separately because it's a different topic and yes I was on that site over a year ago, but they banned me and I am okay with that. I am not a Trinitarian and I didn't know it was against their rules to not be so when the topic came up they just banned me, a decision very few people agreed with btw. People actually liked debating that topic with me and generally speaking I was well-liked. I do miss the friends I had there. I hope they are doing well!

edit: and come to think of it, I remember you also. Actually, I think you were the only one who didn't like me and probably the one who reported me.

Actually I would not report you for that,, I do not get into that topic.

I do not hate anyone. I may not like what they teach, But I hate no one.. But thanks for assuming something..