DOES BELIEF THAT ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED MEAN WE CAN SIN?

[Eternally Grateful]

Moving in late, not read everything yet.

It's hard to believe a born again Christian will lose the faith, but I do believe there are exceptions.

1. Saul was the anointed King of Israel, it did not end well.

2. King Solomon -- For when Solomon was old his wives turned away his heart after other gods, -- it's unclear if Solomon repented [1 Kings 11:1-43]

3. Judas was chosen by Christ, he not only saw Jesus miracles, he performed miracles himself by the power Jesus had given him (Luke 9) and yet he betrayed Christ and became the son of perdition.

1. Saul was not chosen of God. He was chosen by the people. There is no evidence he ever was saved.

2. God made a promise to Soloman’s Father, David

taken from a people for his name.org

Long before Solomon had been born, God made some special promises to David about a special son named Solomon (1 Chron. 22:9) that he would have:

2Sa 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

God promised that He would have a Father-son relationship with Solomon, David’s son, who would build for Him a house for His name (2 Sam. 7:13; cf. 1 Chron. 28:6). His special relationship with that seed would include His chastening him if he would commit iniquity (2 Sam. 7:14).

Furthermore, God promised David that although He would chasten that son when he would commit iniquity, He would not take away from His lovingkindness, as He did with Saul (2 Sam. 7:15; 1 Chron. 17:13). These promises make it impossible for Solomon to have perished eternally.

3. Judas was chosen to be the one who turned christ in, the son of perdition. He never trusted Christ, he only expected christ to free them from rome, when he found out he was not he quickly turned him in

 

[ProDeo]

You might believe so. Me however I don't trust my flesh. I am deeply impressed by the story of Peter who betrayed the Lord 3 times just hours after he used big words he was willing to give his life for Jesus. And I believe if the soldiers would had come at that particular moment he would have given his life. But life doesn't work that way, the situation changed and he became afraid, feared for his life when he was questioned and he betrayed Jesus 3 times to save his flesh, he did not know himself.

As Paul said, we have to finish the race and I don't know what is ahead of me, with the lesson of Peter in mind I am careful, it ain't over yet, I have to finish the race. Does that mean I question my salvation?, not at all.

Can I handle to be thrown for the lions like Paul?
Am I ready to be crucified like Peter?

Maybe easy to say yes at this moment, but when the moment is there? Only then I will know and I don't trust my flesh.

Jesus Foretells Peter's Denial
Luk 22:31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
Luk 22:32 but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Understanding what Jesus says here I have prayed for His protection when such a real trial may happen to me, I even asked Him to take away my free will and save me from my flesh, just in case..

Not a nice subject on Christmas day.

 

[St. SteVen]

You might believe so. Me however I don't trust my flesh. I am deeply impressed by the story of Peter who betrayed the Lord 3 times just hours after he used big words he was willing to give his life for Jesus. And I believe if the soldiers would had come at that particular moment he would have given his life. But life doesn't work that way, the situation changed and he became afraid, feared for his life when he was questioned and he betrayed Jesus 3 times to save his flesh, he did not know himself.

While reading your post I remembered this prophecy. (Zechariah 13:7)

• Matthew 26:31
  

  The Prediction of Peter’s Denial​

  Then Jesus said to them, “This night you will all fall away because of me, for it is written:
  ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
  
  
• Mark 14:27
  

  The Prediction of Peter’s Denial​

  Then Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away, for it is written,
  ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.’

[

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Understanding what Jesus says here I have prayed for His protection when such a real trial may happen to me, I even asked Him to take away my free will and save me from my flesh, just in case..

Not a nice subject on Christmas day.

What were you afraid of?

 

[ProDeo]

While reading your post I remembered this prophecy. (Zechariah 13:7)

• Matthew 26:31
  

  The Prediction of Peter’s Denial​

  Then Jesus said to them, “This night you will all fall away because of me, for it is written:
  ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
  
  
• Mark 14:27
  

  The Prediction of Peter’s Denial​

  Then Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away, for it is written,
  ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.’

[

That's very interesting....

 

[ProDeo]

What were you afraid of?

Can you really know yourself ?

 

[St. SteVen]

That's very interesting....

Check out this new topic on the subject.

Were messianic prophecies acquired, rather than intended? (in the original texts)

I recently remembered a prophecy referred to by Jesus. But I also remembered that orthodox Jews typically reject these "prophecies" saying that is not what they meant. Were some of these prophecies, or other OT quotations acquired rather than intended? Here are a couple. (we'll need to...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Can you really know yourself ?

My God gave me a spirit of peace, Of sound mind. And an Abba father, He adopted me as his son, so i also have the spirit of adoption. I have nothing to fear. I can come to his throne as a son.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit ofbondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit offear, but of power and of love and ofa sound mind

He also gave me rest.


Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give yourest.

so no. I do not know why you or anyone who is Gods child would fear

 

[ProDeo]

My God gave me a spirit of peace, Of sound mind. And an Abba father, He adopted me as his son, so i also have the spirit of adoption. I have nothing to fear. I can come to his throne as a son.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit ofbondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit offear, but of power and of love and ofa sound mind

He also gave me rest.


Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give yourest.

so no. I do not know why you or anyone who is Gods child would fear

Agreed.

I don't fear, I just don't trust my selfish flesh, it's a big difference.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Agreed.

I don't fear, I just don't trust my selfish flesh, it's a big difference.

Oh I don”t either we never should. That’s why we should always be grateful for God love and mercy

 

[LoveYeshua]

There is a lot of sentiment that refutes eternal security based on the belief that it propagates freely sinning.

The Bible teaches both eternal security and living righteously.

Let's first look at eternal security.

[Jhn 3:14-16 KJV] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

While the Old Testament was primarily given to Israel to obey, we can still learn from it.

The Jews only had to believe on Jesus to have eternal life.

[Rom 3:21-22 KJV] 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Now on to Paul who was given revelation from the risen Christ Jesus to preach our gospel today for Jew and Gentile.

Paul revealed that we have the righteousness of God by faith in Christ. If have been declared righteous then we can know we have eternal security.

[Rom 4:21-25 KJV] 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Righteousness was imputed to Abraham; it was not his righteousness but the righteousness of God.

The righteousness of Christ is imputed to us as well.

Jesus died for our sins and rose for our justification unto eternal life.

[Rom 5:9-11 KJV] 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

We are justified by his blood and are reconciled.

[Rom 5:21 KJV] 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
[Rom 6:23 KJV] 23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[Tit 1:2 KJV] 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
[Tit 3:7 KJV] 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

These verses promise eternal life and security.

Being justified can we freely sin?

[Rom 6:1-2 KJV] 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul gives answer to those who would say we are free to sin.

[Rom 6:6-7 KJV] 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

We are to reckon we are dead to sin but alive to God.

[Rom 6:12, 14-15, 22 KJV] 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. ... 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. ... 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Above are more verses pertaining to sin.

[Tit 2:11-12 KJV] 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Finaly the above passage dispels the assertion that being justified eternally by grace promotes sin.

If someone were to ask Jesus, "Does belief that once saved always saved mean we can sin?" His response would likely be a blend of grace and truth, based on the transformative nature of salvation and the call to holy living.

Affirming Grace but Rejecting Sinfulness​

Jesus might begin by affirming the power of God's grace to save, saying something like:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life" (John 6:47).

This statement acknowledges the assurance of salvation for those who genuinely believe. However, He would not stop there. Jesus would remind us that salvation is not a license to sin:

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

His words would emphasize that true love for God is demonstrated by obedience to His will just like Jesus Himself did.

A Call to Holiness​

Jesus would likely reiterate the importance of repentance and transformation. He might point to His interaction with the woman caught in adultery, where He extended grace but also issued a clear command:

"Go, and sin no more" (John 8:11).

This demonstrates that while grace forgives past sins, it also calls us to a new way of living, turning away from sin as evidence of a genuine relationship with God.

The Parable of the Good Tree​

To further illustrate, Jesus might refer to one of His parables, saying:

"Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ... Thus, by their fruit, you will recognize them" (Matthew 7:17-20).

This teaching shows that salvation is transformative. Those who are truly saved will bear good fruit—a life marked by righteousness and obedience—as a natural outcome of their faith.

Warning Against Abusing Grace​

Jesus might also warn against taking God's grace for granted or living in persistent disobedience. He could say:

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

This sobering reminder teaches that a verbal profession of faith is insufficient if it is not accompanied by a life of surrender to God’s will.

In essence, Jesus’ response to this question would affirm the assurance of salvation for those who genuinely believe while rejecting any notion that salvation is an excuse to continue in sin. He would call His followers to a life of holiness, obedience, and love, reflecting the transformative power of God's grace. True faith, according to Jesus, does not merely rest in the promise of eternal security but also manifests in a life that seeks to honor God in every way.

Blessings

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul did this very thing when he called peter out publically for peters sin.

paul called himself the chief of all sinners. And spoke of the war inside him we all face.

the war between the spirit and the flesh . IT is a war all right .
And as you agree , THIS IS WHY , we as the church ought to be correcting one the other
and doingall by the POWER of the SPIRIT to build up one the other .
The early church knew Truth . GOD knows what we all face and will have to face .
Thus every warning to every word and promise , to the very pattern set by CHRIST and later by the leaders o the church
IS WHAT we should do and etc . And even james said confess ye your faults , and pray that ye may be healed .
DO NOT err was a phrase often used , DO not be partakers of sin , or any others sin .
Correction is a dire need within the church .
paul wrote well when HE wrote , BEHOLD both the GOODNESS and SERVERITY of GOD .
And its high time we do as they did IN ALL things . as i am sure you do agree .

 

[amigo de christo]

If someone were to ask Jesus, "Does belief that once saved always saved mean we can sin?" His response would likely be a blend of grace and truth, based on the transformative nature of salvation and the call to holy living.

Affirming Grace but Rejecting Sinfulness​

Jesus might begin by affirming the power of God's grace to save, saying something like:

This statement acknowledges the assurance of salvation for those who genuinely believe. However, He would not stop there. Jesus would remind us that salvation is not a license to sin:

His words would emphasize that true love for God is demonstrated by obedience to His will just like Jesus Himself did.

A Call to Holiness​

Jesus would likely reiterate the importance of repentance and transformation. He might point to His interaction with the woman caught in adultery, where He extended grace but also issued a clear command:

This demonstrates that while grace forgives past sins, it also calls us to a new way of living, turning away from sin as evidence of a genuine relationship with God.

The Parable of the Good Tree​

To further illustrate, Jesus might refer to one of His parables, saying:

This teaching shows that salvation is transformative. Those who are truly saved will bear good fruit—a life marked by righteousness and obedience—as a natural outcome of their faith.

Warning Against Abusing Grace​

Jesus might also warn against taking God's grace for granted or living in persistent disobedience. He could say:

This sobering reminder teaches that a verbal profession of faith is insufficient if it is not accompanied by a life of surrender to God’s will.

In essence, Jesus’ response to this question would affirm the assurance of salvation for those who genuinely believe while rejecting any notion that salvation is an excuse to continue in sin. He would call His followers to a life of holiness, obedience, and love, reflecting the transformative power of God's grace. True faith, according to Jesus, does not merely rest in the promise of eternal security but also manifests in a life that seeks to honor God in every way.

Blessings

When expounding on what we THINK Jesus would say
i suggest we use HIS own words . And when speaking to those that he had even healed
He said NOW GO and sin no more . His words are more direct and sure do bring to light what needs to be exposed .
One thing about the LORD , HE sure did warn , he healed , He did much good , and HE sure was no supporter of any sin .
As i am sure you do agree my friend . When speaking about sin
iwould like to suggest we also use a lot of what paul and others wrote about concerning sin
concerning who will not inherit the Kingdom of GOD . that GOD wont be mocked .
Phrases like that sure do a lot of good to the hearer . Just be encouraged my friend

 

[LoveYeshua]

When expounding on what we THINK Jesus would say
i suggest we use HIS own words . And when speaking to those that he had even healed
He said NOW GO and sin no more . His words are more direct and sure do bring to light what needs to be exposed .
One thing about the LORD , HE sure did warn , he healed , He did much good , and HE sure was no supporter of any sin .
As i am sure you do agree my friend . When speaking about sin
iwould like to suggest we also use a lot of what paul and others wrote about concerning sin
concerning who will not inherit the Kingdom of GOD . that GOD wont be mocked .
Phrases like that sure do a lot of good to the hearer . Just be encouraged my friend

I did use Jesus words!
Also I quote Jesus Mostly as many have forgotten ( I do mean REALLY FORGOTTEN) his words it is the main reason.

Blessings.

 

[amigo de christo]

I did use Jesus words!
Also I quote Jesus Mostly as many have forgotten ( I do mean REALLY FORGOTTEN) his words it is the main reason.

Blessings.

You did .
Do you believe that a person can be decieved into beleiving a lie .
of course you do .
Do you beleive that satan and his men can USE the name of JESUS and yet be bringing another jesus , aka image of , unto the people .
of course you do . Even paul warned about such .
Do you believe its possible for satans ministirs , WHO BELEIVE ME DONT REALIZE they are HIS MINSTIRS ,
be within , and even leading churches .
YOU SHOULD . i think you do . Cause even paul warned of such as did peter
who said just as their were false prophets amongst the people
so too shall their be false teachers amongst you .
Now all of this i think you do beleive .
SO now for another question .
DO you beleive that satan , and his men , can even say GOD IS LOVE
and yet by means of that phrase be leading the people into the great deceptoin . IF NOT YA BETTER BELEIVE IT
cause its massive now . Intefaith is of anti christ and JESUS will never be the minstir of any sin . YET WE GOT
us a VERY WELCOMED and very EMBRACED version of this , GOING ON RIGHT NOW WITHIN CHRISTENDOM .

 

[amigo de christo]

I did use Jesus words!
Also I quote Jesus Mostly as many have forgotten ( I do mean REALLY FORGOTTEN) his words it is the main reason.

Blessings.

many have either FORGOTTEN as you well wrote , or never knew , or what little they do know
THEY have twisted to fit a lie . OH on this i am sure you can see this my friend .
But the depths of it and how great its influence NOW IS OVER MOST ALL OF CHRISTENDOM ,
that i dont know if you see that depth as of yet . BUT you MIGHT . you might already see and know
this , in fact you might even know it and see it more so than do i . or maybe not .
SO the key is this . IF , if we really read that bible for ourselves , and KEEP reading it for ourselves
and KEEP reading it for ourselves , and keep reading it for ourselves
The true pattern gets engrained REAL GOOD by the HOLY GHOST .
And we soon come to a real simple realization . And that is THIS
THE MOMENT one cometh and no matter how sweet they sing the song
THEY ARE OMITTING something that JESUS or the apostels said , BOY IS THAT GONNA CAUSE A DOWN FALL .
SO on that note i would like to invite us to a word paul often used .
Blameless and GRAVE . NOW I SURE AS HECK dont see grave in most folks today . NOT EVEN CLOSE .
What i see is pandering to emotions , toning things down . But i dont see grave men at all .
VERY RARE , if at all do i see men who are grave . BUT I SURE SEE lots of men that are gravy and pour that smooth
watered down sin overlooking doctrine unto many . DID i say you do that . NO . i just simply said the TRUTH .

 

[Marvelloustime]

many have either FORGOTTEN as you well wrote , or never knew , or what little they do know
THEY have twisted to fit a lie . OH on this i am sure you can see this my friend .
But the depths of it and how great its influence NOW IS OVER MOST ALL OF CHRISTENDOM ,
that i dont know if you see that depth as of yet . BUT you MIGHT . you might already see and know
this , in fact you might even know it and see it more so than do i . or maybe not .
SO the key is this . IF , if we really read that bible for ourselves , and KEEP reading it for ourselves
and KEEP reading it for ourselves , and keep reading it for ourselves
The true pattern gets engrained REAL GOOD by the HOLY GHOST .
And we soon come to a real simple realization . And that is THIS
THE MOMENT one cometh and no matter how sweet they sing the song
THEY ARE OMITTING something that JESUS or the apostels said , BOY IS THAT GONNA CAUSE A DOWN FALL .
SO on that note i would like to invite us to a word paul often used .
Blameless and GRAVE . NOW I SURE AS HECK dont see grave in most folks today . NOT EVEN CLOSE .
What i see is pandering to emotions , toning things down . But i dont see grave men at all .
VERY RARE , if at all do i see men who are grave . BUT I SURE SEE lots of men that are gravy and pour that smooth
watered down sin overlooking doctrine unto many . DID i say you do that . NO . i just simply said the TRUTH .

@amigo de christo

 

[LoveYeshua]

many have either FORGOTTEN as you well wrote , or never knew , or what little they do know

If they have read Paul they have read also about jests or at least I hope so.

THEY have twisted to fit a lie . OH on this i am sure you can see this my friend .

Yes they twist the lies they heard or read and they do not see the truth. It is the Father that calls us to repentance according to his will, many are called but few respond, Jesus expresses many parables about this.

But the depths of it and how great its influence NOW IS OVER MOST ALL OF CHRISTENDOM ,
that i dont know if you see that depth as of yet . BUT you MIGHT . you might already see and know
this , in fact you might even know it and see it more so than do i . or maybe not .
SO the key is this . IF , if we really read that bible for ourselves , and KEEP reading it for ourselves
and KEEP reading it for ourselves , and keep reading it for ourselves
The true pattern gets engrained REAL GOOD by the HOLY GHOST .

YES!

And we soon come to a real simple realization . And that is THIS
THE MOMENT one cometh and no matter how sweet they sing the song
THEY ARE OMITTING something that JESUS or the apostels said , BOY IS THAT GONNA CAUSE A DOWN FALL .
SO on that note i would like to invite us to a word paul often used .
Blameless and GRAVE . NOW I SURE AS HECK dont see grave in most folks today . NOT EVEN CLOSE .
What i see is pandering to emotions , toning things down . But i dont see grave men at all .
VERY RARE , if at all do i see men who are grave . BUT I SURE SEE lots of men that are gravy and pour that smooth
watered down sin overlooking doctrine unto many . DID i say you do that . NO . i just simply said the TRUTH .

The truth is not given to everyone. I agree However it is easy to find truth in scripture But requires an open heart a good measure of the Holy Spirit of God and Absolute faith in GOD.

Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit;
John 14:16 (KJV):
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever."

Jesus also said;

John 16:13 (NKJV):​

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

I know I have received this gift but not all is made known to me. But what I know is certain.

Blessings.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I will add to this that we believers are at this time, the time of the end, close to Jesus second return are tested by FIRE for out faith and obedience to the will of GOD, Brothers do not let go of the gifts and Love GOD had bestowed amongst you , but show your light to the world, it is time NOW, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Blessings.

 

[Earburner]

First you state that a Christian in Christ cannot sin,......... and then you change that into they can still "live in the flesh and sin"..

So, you had it right and then you got it wrong, again.

Listen...

"the OLD MAN of sin, is DEAD".. and Paul told YOU to "reckon it dead" .. ..not teach that its alive and sins..

Just try to understand... that there is no sin found "IN Christ", and no sin found "In GOD">.

A.) = Every Christian is "IN CHRIST".. and "ONE WITH GOD">. ."made free from sin".

Where you are not understanding your salvation....is here... = "not under the Law, but under Grace".

See that?
That means that the born again exist......here...>>"where there is no LAW, there is no SIN".....

That does not mean you wont have some issues with your own behavior.......it means that there is no LAW over you, that can define you as anything, anymore.

See, "SIN" is defined by the LAW and Commandments.. and those are the same.....regarding their Dominion over the unbeliever.

And once the person becomes born again..... then "Grace and Truth, came by Jesus" and that is what we have in place of.. "the law came by moses".

We the born again, are """""not under the law, we are under Grace""""", .. and there is no LAW found there... that can define us as sinners, ever again.

This is why 2 Corin says that "God was in Christ NOT COUNTING SINS".. .against us, and Romans 4:8, says the same thing.

Amen!
Col. 3
[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, SEEK those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is HID WITH Christ IN GOD.
[4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.