22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[BreadOfLife]

The RCC is the mother of all Acts 2:38 skippers.

And YOU are the Father of all Fact-Dodgers . . .

 

[Olin]

(19) Premil has an unhealthy obsessive focus on natural Israel, wrongly believing her to be God’s chosen people today under the new covenant. As a result, they have a mistaken fixation with natural Jerusalem in the Middle East, as if it is the epicenter of God’s workings with mankind on this earth and the place of His unconditional favor. This is wrong! They ignore much Scripture that shows that the fig tree has been cut down, the kingdom of God has been removed from Israel. Ancient Jerusalem and the temple therein were merely Old Testament imperfect shadows of the heavenly reality that was revealed at the first advent. The New Testament repeatedly teaches that we have become one with spiritual believing Israel in the OT. It makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one new man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time!

(20) General unqualified phrases like “all,” “all nations,” “the quick (or living) and the dead,” “every man,” “every eye,” “every one,” “men,” “man,” “all men everywhere,” “the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great,” “all that dwell upon the earth … whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,” “they that dwell on the earth … whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,” “the world,” “the whole world” and “all the world,” that objective and impartial Bible students acknowledge embrace the whole human race (or the full amount of all the wicked) are redefined and explained away to let Premil fit. If one was to take a precise straightforward interpretation of these phrases, one could only come to conclusion that there are no exclusions here. This shows that the Premil boast that they are literalists is inaccurate.

(21) Premil takes common linguistic terms that are easily understood by the unindoctrinated observer in any language to mean the opposite to what they actually say. For example, Premil does not believe that "first" means first and "last" means last. The English words “first” and “last” are taken from the Greek words protos and eschatos and are widely accepted by all unbiased theologians to denote exactly what they say. The word protos means first, as in the foremost in time, place, order or importance. The word eschatos on the other hand means end, last, farthest and final. It is explicitly clear from their usage, meaning and context in the New Testament that these words are the exact antithesis of each other.

(22) Premil does not believe that “the end” refers to the end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It is the termination point of a thing. When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then most sane theologians agree it is talking about “the beginning” of creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason I believe is because it cuts across a lot of their end-time theology they have been taught. But I believe we should treat both sayings similarly. Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).

This looks like a whole lot of overkill. If a teaching is false, the Bible will just say so from a verse or two. The same goes for a verse or two verifying a true teaching. The KISS rule definitely applies to the Bible.

 

[WPM]

This looks like a whole lot of overkill. If a teaching is false, the Bible will just say so from a verse or two. The same goes for a verse or two verifying a true teaching. The KISS rule definitely applies to the Bible.

But what have you to say on the actual thesis of the thread?

 

[Olin]

But what have you to say on the actual thesis of the thread?

My desire is to be resurrected and rule the nations with Jesus. I guess I wouldn't call myself a premil, because of some of the things you say against them. They don't apply to me.

 

[Truth7t7]

It does not say that in the spiritual realm one day equals one thousand years. That is ridiculous. It says one day with the Lord is AS a thousand years AND a thousand years AS one day. What that means is that to the Lord, who created time, one day and one thousand years make no difference. No amount of time makes any difference to Him since He exists outside of time as the Creator of time.

A+ on your paper yes God is outside of time, where one day is a thousand years, and a thousand years one day, exactly where the martyred saints and souls are as seen in Revelation 20:4-6, that are outside of time in the Lord's spiritual

 

[Truth7t7]

John, speaking while alive is living and reigning with Christ in time, this age, symbolized a thousand years. John didn't stop living and reigning with Christ after his death, he simply left his dead body and spiritually ascended to heaven to live and reign with the Lord there.

John was in (The Spirit) when he received the Revelation, where one day is a thousand years, and a thousand years one day

Those martyred saints seen are in this very same spiritual realm, your claims fail

 

[Truth7t7]

My desire is to be resurrected and rule the nations with Jesus. I guess I wouldn't call myself a premil, because of some of the things you say against them. They don't apply to me.

It won't take place on this physical earth

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, the resurrection of all takes place in the twinkling of an eye (The End)

 

[Truth7t7]

Exactly. The context is not hard to see there and, yet, he's still missing it. Unbelievers are not in view at all in that passage so it has nothing to do with the order of resurrection as if it's saying believers will be resurrected first and then unbelievers. No, it says nothing about unbelievers there. The dead in Christ being resurrected first has to do with the order of events that Paul referenced in the passage. First, the dead in Christ are resurrected. Then, they, along with those who are alive and remain, are caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. That is the order. It has nothing to do with the order of resurrections.

Your claim is "False", all that are in the Graves will come forth, the dead in Christ will be (First) to "RISE" in the (First Resurrection)

(SHALL RISE FIRST)

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Truther]

And YOU are the Father of all Fact-Dodgers . . .

No, I obeyed Acts 2:38 and the entirety of the RCC is in direct disobedience.

They are forbidden by the Pope on down to obey it.

If a priest dares to obey it, they will get the Roman send off.

The last days RCC is the queen of Acts skippers and the whore spoken of in the entire chapter of Rev 18.

 

[Olin]

It won't take place on this physical earth

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, the resurrection of all takes place in the twinkling of an eye (The End)

Do you have any Bible saying they won't rule the nations on earth? I know there isn't any Bible saying they will. If there is no Bible saying they will or won't, then that leaves it up to interpretation. That means we have to go elsewhere in the Bible to say one way or the other. All the prophecies of the Lord judging and ruling the nations make a common sense case for it being on the earth. Do you have any Bible saying the resurrection and rapture of the church is the resurrection time of all the dead to be judged? There is Bible saying the rest of the dead will live again and be judged after the first general resurrection of the people of God.

 

[Truther]

Do you have any Bible saying they won't rule the nations on earth? I know there isn't any Bible saying they will. If there is no Bible saying they will or won't, then that leaves it up to interpretation. That means we have to go elsewhere in the Bible to say one way or the other. All the prophecies of the Lord judging and ruling the nations make a common sense case for it being on the earth. Do you have any Bible saying the resurrection and rapture of the church is the resurrection time of all the dead to be judged? There is Bible saying the rest of the dead will live again and be judged after the first general resurrection of the people of God.

Rev 19 is the 2nd coming.

Then Rev 20 starts with the 1000 year reign being organized via the first resurrection on earth, then satan is loosed for a seasong recreating havoc, then comes the end of the world.(Earth is destroyed).

Rev 21-22 is the description of the new heaven and earth.

It is super clear to see.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

A+ on your paper yes God is outside of time, where one day is a thousand years, and a thousand years one day, exactly where the martyred saints and souls are as seen in Revelation 20:4-6, that are outside of time in the Lord's spiritual

You are saying it wrong. You are saying "one day IS a thousand years, and a thousand years one day", but the scripture says "one day is AS a thousand years, and a thousand years AS one day". The way you're saying it equates one day with one thousand years, but that isn't what it's saying. To the Lord, one day is AS a million years because He is outside of time. No amount of time makes any difference to Him.

But, the problem with you thinking that the thousand years is outside of time is that it would be impossible for the thousand years to end/expire in that case and be followed by Satan's little season.

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

How can a little season of time come after timelessness? Obviously, it can't. Your view of the thousand years of Revelation 20 makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you have any Bible saying they won't rule the nations on earth? I know there isn't any Bible saying they will. If there is no Bible saying they will or won't, then that leaves it up to interpretation. That means we have to go elsewhere in the Bible to say one way or the other. All the prophecies of the Lord judging and ruling the nations make a common sense case for it being on the earth. Do you have any Bible saying the resurrection and rapture of the church is the resurrection time of all the dead to be judged?

When else would they be judged? Jesus indicated that there is only one time/event in the future that the dead will be resurrected.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

There is Bible saying the rest of the dead will live again and be judged after the first general resurrection of the people of God.

Scripture indicates that Jesus's resurrection was the first resurrection, so when it talks about having part in the first resurrection it should be understood that it's talking about having part in His resurrection. And you don't have to be bodily resurrected in order to have part in His resurrection (Eph 2:1-6, Romans 6:4-5, Col 2:12-13, etc.).

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim is "False",

No, it isn't. If Paul was referring to the order of resurrections when he said the dead in Christ will rise first, then where does he mention who will be resurrected next in that passage (1 Thess 4:14-17)? Nowhere. Because that wasn't the context. The context was the order of events relating to believers when Christ returns. First, the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Next, they, along with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Truth7t7]

I always smile inwardly when you present this argument using this verse out of context. We all know why you do this. Presenting the context of this passage unequivocally proves you err in believing it proves two bodily resurrections.

The living souls who have physically died will return with the Lord. Their bodies will be first resurrected from the graves and caught up with Christ in the air. Followed IMMEDIATELY by those who still remain on earth alive when Christ returns, shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM, them who? The physically dead in Christ that arose up first!

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It's time to get rid of your selective reading habits and start believing what sayeth the whole Word of God!

Please respond to post # 7728 above (Shall Rise First)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My desire is to be resurrected and rule the nations with Jesus. I guess I wouldn't call myself a premil, because of some of the things you say against them. They don't apply to me.

What does ruling the nations with Jesus entail in your mind? What do you think you will be doing exactly when you are ruling the nations?

 

[Truth7t7]

No, it isn't.

Your claim is "False", all that are in the Graves will come forth, the dead in Christ will be (First) to "RISE" in the (First Resurrection)

(SHALL RISE FIRST)

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Olin]

Rev 19 is the 2nd coming.

Then Rev 20 starts with the 1000 year reign being organized via the first resurrection on earth, then satan is loosed for a seasong recreating havoc, then comes the end of the world.(Earth is destroyed).

Rev 21-22 is the description of the new heaven and earth.

It is super clear to see.

Yes, I agree that is from bible verses saying so. But to be fair we must recognize that no Bible verse specifically says the Lord's organization of resurrected believers will be on the earth ruling the nations of earth. That is why we have to look at other bible verses to make the best case one way or the other. We need something showing the thrones they judge from are on the earth itself. How do we know they're not remaining in the air all that time? We know the Lord Himself will split the mountain and be in Zion.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim is "False", all that are in the Graves will come forth, the dead in Christ will be (First) to "RISE" in the (First Resurrection)

(SHALL RISE FIRST)

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

No, it isn't. If Paul was referring to the order of resurrections when he said the dead in Christ will rise first, then where does he mention who will be resurrected next in that passage (1 Thess 4:14-17)? Nowhere. Because that wasn't the context. The context was the order of events relating to believers when Christ returns. First, the dead in Christ will be resurrected. Next, they, along with those who are alive and remain, will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air.

See, I can just copy and paste my own posts, too. It's pretty pointless to do so, though. If you don't have anything new to say, then don't bother.

 

[Olin]

What does ruling the nations with Jesus entail in your mind? What do you think you will be doing exactly when you are ruling the nations?

The prophecies say judging and ruling with the same rods of iron as the Lord. The Bible also says it will be for the good of the nations, because they will rejoice in it. The power will be to end all wars and judge all cases of law to condemn the guilty and honor the innocent. The same kind of government Peter talks about, that God has always intended for men on earth.