Amillennialism's crushing dilemmas

[Scott Downey]

The earth and the heaven will be destroyed, they actually flee away at the judgment, they are removed, gone, passed away, vanished.
This is what Peter is saying by melting with fervent heat, it's like they evaporate and are gone.

Odd that somehow people cannot understand that if God made them, God can unmake them, I have run into that strange thought before.
The only eternal nature is God, not the things God made, they have to be granted eternity, like we who believe are given eternal life, because we don't possess that by nature as God does. Nothing that is created has an eternal nature in itself.

Rev 20

The Great White Throne Judgment​

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

the former things passed away and they vanished, gone. They were shaken by God and could not remain.

The removal of Earth and Heaven
Isaiah 13:13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the Lord of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.

Hebrews 12

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I [k]shake not only the earth, but also heaven.”

27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [l]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Rev 21,

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

 

[Scott Downey]

The Day of the Lord​

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[Scott Downey]

"Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved,"

DISSOLVE

G3089 - lyō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G3089 - λύω lýō, loo'-o; a primary verb; to "loosen" (literally or figuratively):—break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-)loose, melt, put off. Compare .

www.blueletterbible.org

λύω​

The KJV translates Strong's G3089 in the following manner: loose (27x), break (5x), unloose (3x), destroy (2x), dissolve (2x), put off (1x), melt (1x), break up (1x), break down (1x).

 

[Scott Downey]

Heaven and earth will pass away at the return of Christ

Mark 13

The Coming of the Son of Man​

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that [i]it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

 

[Scott Downey]

When He comes, in judgment of this world, Christ will set the earth on fire, 49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Luke 12

39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would [g]have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

41 Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?”

42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food [h]in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.

45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

 

[Scott Downey]

According to the bible, will God someday destroy the world? ChatGPT hedges the answer with yes, as we know it.

No created thing is eternal in itself, unless God grants it to continue forever.

ChatGPT said:​

Yes, according to the Bible, God will one day bring about the end of the world as we know it. Various passages describe this event, often referred to as the "Day of the Lord," when God will judge the world and create a new heaven and new earth.

Key Biblical References:​

1. Destruction of the Present World
   • 2 Peter 3:10 – "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare."
   • This suggests that the current earth will be consumed or transformed by fire.
2. God’s Judgment
   • Revelation 20:11-15 – Describes the final judgment, where the dead are judged and those not found in the "Book of Life" are cast into the lake of fire.
3. Creation of a New Heaven and a New Earth
   • Revelation 21:1 – "Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’ for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."
   • This indicates that after destruction, God will establish a renewed creation where righteousness dwells.

So, while the Bible speaks of the world as we know it ending, it also describes a future hope where God creates a perfect, eternal kingdom. Would you like more details on any of these passages?

 

[Scott Downey]

With reasoning checked, ChatGPT states this

according to the bible, will god someday destroy the world?

ChatGPT said:​

Reasoned about Biblical end times for 4 seconds
According to the Bible, there are several passages that indicate God will bring an end to the present world. This idea is central to biblical eschatology, which is the study of the end times. Here are some key points:

• Destruction by Fire:
  Passages such as 2 Peter 3:10 describe the "day of the Lord" when the heavens and the earth will be transformed by fire. This imagery is often interpreted as a symbolic representation of a complete and purifying transformation of the current world.
• Final Judgment:
  The book of Revelation, particularly Revelation 20:11–15, speaks of a final judgment in which all people are held accountable for their actions. Those not found in the "Book of Life" face eternal separation, often described as being cast into a lake of fire.
• A New Creation:
  Rather than simply ending everything, the Bible also promises a renewal. Revelation 21:1 introduces the vision of a new heaven and a new earth, suggesting that the destruction of the old world paves the way for a restored, perfect creation where righteousness dwells.

In summary, biblical texts do describe an eventual end to the current world, marked by divine judgment and transformation, followed by the creation of a renewed, eternal state.

 

[Scott Downey]

So, make of it whatever you will believe. I know what I believe. Dissolve is a word that describes what happens to this creation, and it means to dissolve! As in it's just no longer intact, no longer looks anything like it did. Dissolve the elements that build up this universe, and you basically will get nothing remaining except energy, matter into energy conversion perhaps. Elements melt with fervent heat type of thing.

The KJV translates Strong's G3089 in the following manner: loose (27x), break (5x), unloose (3x), destroy (2x), dissolve (2x), put off (1x), melt (1x), break up (1x), break down (1x).

And after the melting, we get the judgment. Only thing at the judgment are celestial beings, God, angels, people. The judgment is a consuming focus of God and all these beings and of course the record of their lives are opened.

At the end of this current creation, everyone gives an account of himself to God.
The wicked go to the lake of fire, and the just enter in the kingdom of God, which God creates for them.
And afterwards a new creation.

Everything that had a part in this world, if it was earthly, God has to create as a new creation. The people who are saved are new creations in Christ, and the earth and heavens they will inherit is a new earth and a new heaven in which dwells righteousness.

 

[Zao is life]

So, make of it whatever you will believe. I know what I believe. Dissolve is a word that describes what happens to this creation, and it means to dissolve! As in it's just no longer intact, no longer looks anything like it did. Dissolve the elements that build up this universe, and you basically will get nothing remaining except energy, matter into energy conversion perhaps. Elements melt with fervent heat type of thing.

The KJV translates Strong's G3089 in the following manner: loose (27x), break (5x), unloose (3x), destroy (2x), dissolve (2x), put off (1x), melt (1x), break up (1x), break down (1x).

OK so you have made of 2 Peter 3:10 what you will. The rest of us will either do likewise,

or make of it what the scriptures will:

lýō

[*StrongsGreek*] 03089 λύω lýō, loo'-o a primary verb; to "loosen" (literally or figuratively):--break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-)loose, melt, put off. Compare 4486.

It always refers to something that was bound being loosed, for example:

Luke 13:15-6
And the Lord answered him and said, Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the sabbath loosen [lýō] his ox or ass from the stall and lead it away, to give it drink? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham whom Satan has bound, lo these eighteen years, be loosened [lýō] from this bond on the Sabbath day?

It's used in the same way in the following scriptures.

Matthew 16:19:
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose [lýō] on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Acts 22:30:
On the morrow, because he would have known the certainty wherefore he was accused of the Jews, he loosed [lýō] him from his bands, and commanded the chief priests and all their council to appear, and brought Paul down, and set him before them.

Matthew 21:2:
Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose [lýō] them, and bring them unto me.

Acts 2:24:
Whom God hath raised up, having loosed [lýō] the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Mark 1:7:
And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose [lýō].

Mark 7:35:
And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed [lýō], and he spake plain.

Revelation of John 5:2:
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose [lýō] the seals thereof?

Revelation of John 9:15:
And the four angels were loosed [lýō], which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Revelation of John 20:7:
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed [lýō] out of his prison.

Matthew 5:19:
Whosoever therefore shall break [lýō] one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

John 5:18:
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken [lýō] the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

There are more examples but that should suffice for those who would make of 2 Peter 3:10 what the scripture dictates by the words used in 2 Peter 3:10-13. The rest will make of it what they will.

-- But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away [parérchomai] with a great noise, and the 1. elements [stoicheîon] shall be 2. dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat, the earth also and the 3. works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up. -- 2 Peter 3:10.

@Scott Downey What was bound, and what is being loosed in 2 Peter 3:10? It's highly unlikely to be the chemical elements because stoicheîon refers either to the rudiments or principles of this world, or to the principles of the oracles of God in each of the other five verses where the same word is used, for example:

Colossians 2:8:
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments [stoicheîon] of the world, and not after Christ.

Hebrews 5:12:
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles [stoicheîon] of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

The word stoicheîon is also used in the same sense as above in Galatians 4:3; Galatians 4:9; and Colossians 2:20.

The only other verse in scripture containing the same word is 2 Peter 3:10, where you say there is a change in meaning.

Notice I'm not making of 2 Peter 3:10 what I like. I'm making of it what scripture dictates.

 

[Zao is life]

With reasoning checked, ChatGPT states this

according to the bible, will god someday destroy the world?

ChatGPT said:​

Reasoned about Biblical end times for 4 seconds
According to the Bible, there are several passages that indicate God will bring an end to the present world. This idea is central to biblical eschatology, which is the study of the end times. Here are some key points:

• Destruction by Fire:
  Passages such as 2 Peter 3:10 describe the "day of the Lord" when the heavens and the earth will be transformed by fire. This imagery is often interpreted as a symbolic representation of a complete and purifying transformation of the current world.
• Final Judgment:
  The book of Revelation, particularly Revelation 20:11–15, speaks of a final judgment in which all people are held accountable for their actions. Those not found in the "Book of Life" face eternal separation, often described as being cast into a lake of fire.
• A New Creation:
  Rather than simply ending everything, the Bible also promises a renewal. Revelation 21:1 introduces the vision of a new heaven and a new earth, suggesting that the destruction of the old world paves the way for a restored, perfect creation where righteousness dwells.

In summary, biblical texts do describe an eventual end to the current world, marked by divine judgment and transformation, followed by the creation of a renewed, eternal state.

• Destruction by Fire:
  Passages such as 2 Peter 3:10 describe the "day of the Lord" when the heavens and the earth will be transformed by fire. This imagery is often interpreted as a symbolic representation of a complete and purifying transformation of the current world.

"Transformation of the current world". But it makes no difference because all AI gets its answers to biblical questions from main-stream Christian teaching, theology, and posts like yours and mine all over the place.

You should get your answers from the Bible only.

 

[Zao is life]

The Day of the Lord​

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

"Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire [pyro] shall be dissolved [lýō], and the elements [stoicheion] shall melt with fervent heat?" (2 Peter 3:11-12).

Pyro: πυρόω pyro (Strongs Greek Dictionary 4448):
to kindle, i.e. (passively) to be ignited, glow (literally), be refined, (by implication), or (figuratively) to be inflamed (with anger, grief, lust):--burn, fiery, be on fire, try.

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2 Peter 3:13).

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Colossians 1:16-17).

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life [zoe]; and the life [zoe] was the light of men." (John 1:3-4)

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." (Revelation 21:5).

lýō (or luo): Always refers to something that was bound or restrained, being loosed (i.e loosed from having been bound), for example:

Revelation of John 20:7:
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed [lýō] out of his prison."

parérchomai: Used variously:-

Used for "passing by", "passing closeby", "coming near";

OR "seizing upon or to come upon" (at times suddenly).

OR in reference to a time that has passed.

parérchomai

Matthew 8:28:
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by [parérchomai] that way.

Matthew 14:15: And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past [parérchomai]; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.

Matthew 26:39: And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass [parérchomai] from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Mark 6:48: And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by [parérchomai] them.

Luke 11:42: But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over [parérchomai] judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 12:37: Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come near [parérchomai] and serve them.

Luke 15:29:
And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed [parérchomai] I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

Luke 18:37: And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth [parérchomai] by.

Acts 16:8: And they passing by [parérchomai] Mysia came down to Troas.

Acts 24:7: But the chief captain Lysias came upon [parérchomai] us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,

Acts 27:9: Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past [parérchomai], Paul admonished them,

2 Corinthians 5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away [parérchomai]; behold, all things are become new.

James 1:10: But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away [parérchomai].

1 Peter 4:3: For the time past [parérchomai] of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Matthew 24:34-35: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass [parérchomai], till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away [parérchomai], but my words shall not pass away [parérchomai].

2 Peter 3:10-12:
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away [parérchomai] with a great noise, and the elements [stoicheîon] shall be dissolved [lýō] with fervent heat [kausóō], the earth also and the works [érgon] that are therein shall be burned up [katakaíō].

At least 60% - and probably more - of Christians make of 2 Peter 3:10 what you do. So don't feel lonely. I'm in the minority when I make of it what scripture dictates.

 

[Zao is life]

When He comes, in judgment of this world, Christ will set the earth on fire, 49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

What Christ is going to burn up is the rudiments and principles of this world and all the evil works of men and of darkness, according to 2 Peter 3:10-13. It will be the end of fallen man's rule of the earth and the commencement of the Son of man, the last Adam's reigning over the nations to the Ages of the ages.

He is alive in His resurrected body already to the Ages of the ages. HE said so, and Revelation 11:15 says that He will begin to reign over the kingdoms of this world to the Ages of the ages when the seventh trumpet sounds. Hebrews 2:8 says that of this present time we do not yet see all things placed under His feet, and Jesus told Pilate that His Kingdom is not of this present time of this world.

 

[Zao is life]

The earth and the heaven will be destroyed, they actually flee away at the judgment, they are removed, gone, passed away, vanished.
This is what Peter is saying by melting with fervent heat, it's like they evaporate and are gone.

Is God going to "create" a new Adam also? Because all men are part of the creation, so they will get destroyed completely too.

Doesn't scripture teach that those whose natural bodies are resurrected as spiritual bodies get to be in the new heavens and new earth?

Or are you saying that the first Scott will be reincarnated into a newly created Scott? Scripture dictates that Scott will be bodily resurrected from the dead the way Christ was with the same, but changed body. How can that be, if this current creation is going to be completely destroyed?

Odd that somehow people cannot understand that if God made them, God can unmake them, I have run into that strange thought before.

God is able to do whatever He pleases. Nothing is impossible for God - but if you are confusing the lake of fire with 2 Peter 3:10, then you are hopelessly confused by this.

The only eternal nature is God, not the things God made, they have to be granted eternity, like we who believe are given eternal life, because we don't possess that by nature as God does. Nothing that is created has an eternal nature in itself.

I fully agree with the above, and scripture says so, and I have quoted scriptures that say so. For once we agree on the above.

@Scott Downey BUT you seem to assume that when we are granted eternity, we have it in ourselves. Which, if you do assume that, is not the case. Our eternal life that is given to us is IN CHRIST. Scripture says so.

Also, scripture speaks of eternal life, not "the eternal nature". You're taking a new new age turn with your unbiblical terminology.

But the rest of what you say implies that Scott will cease to exist when the current creation is completely destroyed, because you are part of that creation. A new Scott will be created (but then he won't be Scott, since Scott will be no more).

Actually, scripture is telling you that in the regeneration Scott will be bodily resurrected from the dead and exist in the new, regenerated heavens and earth:

21 The creation itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Romans 8)

There will be no redemption of our body if the creation is completely destroyed and an entirely new creation come into being.

Rev 20

The Great White Throne Judgment​

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

the former things passed away and they vanished, gone. They were shaken by God and could not remain.

If the former creation has vanished and is no more then there would be no need to cast anything or anyone into the lake of fire. Because nothing will remain. New humans will need to be created again.

The removal of Earth and Heaven
Isaiah 13:13
Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the Lord of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.

You change what is metaphor literally into your misinterpretations. And your error once having thus been established, you continue to do this in the rest of what you quote, as below:

Hebrews 12

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I [k]shake not only the earth, but also heaven.”

When was the earth shaken according to what Hebrews is saying? Why is it still here?

27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken

Yes. The removal of the rudiments and principles of this world and the works of men and of darkness.

, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Because when that final trumpet sounds and the old rudiments and principles of this world and the works of men and of darkness have been removed Christ will commence reigning over the kingdoms of this world to the Ages of the ages.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we [l]may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

and on you go. Getting rid of Scott - the old creation. How can you even be yourself after that? A completely new creation means Scott is no more. It will be someone else existing in that new creation you envisage.

If you are still around because you have been resurrected then it's not a new creation but the old has been made new - regenerated.

Rev 21,

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

But according to you those people were all destroyed because the entire old creation was completely destroyed.Where did they suddenly come from? What bodies do they have? How can anyone who was part of this creation that is going to be completely destroyed be part of the above group?

Your interpretation of scripture is not biblical, and makes no sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Both, see Rev 19.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


The saved are immortal, the unsaved are mortal.

You have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God, which contradicts what Paul taught.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, the bible never says that. The OHOE are burned after the GWTJ, and it is then in Rev 21 we see the NHNE. None of that happens at the second coming. ZERO fire is used to kill at the Coming.

I guess this passage isn't in your Bible then because the following will happen at the second coming when Jesus comes as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Some of the same Premills who deny that the above passage is talking about what will happen at the second coming of Christ somehow do not deny that in relation to the following passage which refers to the same event...

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Also, look at 2 Peter 3:13. He said we should look for the new heavens and new earth in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming, but Premills look for an earthly millennial kingdom in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming instead.