The founding fathers of modern-day Premillennialism were heretics

[Davidpt]

He evidently believes that we need to trust in ChatGPT for understanding rather than the Holy Spirit. ChatGPT simply regurgitates the opinions it finds on the Internet which may or may not be accurate. But, he doesn't seem to understand that.

In this case I was only using Chatgpt to research what some early church fathers had said, meaning maybe it knew of some quotes that supports what @WPM was alleging about Justin, or maybe it agreed with @WPM take on what Justin had said. At least chatgpt is intellectually honest about things and not misrepresenting someone's view like some in here are doing. I will take Chatgpt any day over that of someone misrepresenting someone's view, making that person look like the most idiotic person on the planet. Meaning Justin Martyr in this case.

Too bad I can't say that about Amils at times, that they are being intellectually honest and not blatantly misrepresenting someone's view, where some Amils are insisting that Justin Martyr was so stupid that he believed a millennium could actually follow the 2nd coming without it involving a little season following the millennium. Except there can't be a little season after the millennium if satan is cast into the LOF during the 2nd coming. Name one Premil today who agrees with that, that satan is cast into theLOF at the 2nd comimg and that the millennium follows the 2nd coming.

Justin martyr lived closer to the times of the apostles than we do today. And even today no Premil would dare conclude that satan is cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming and that the millennium follows that.

Clearly, undeniably, @WPM is misrepresenting Justin Martyrs's view. And if that's not bad enough as is, he goes the extra mile to make Justin come across as one that had little to no reading comprehension. That Justin lacked any type of intelligence, that he couldn't even see that there is no way there can be a millennium unless there is a little season that follows it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In this case I was only using Chatgpt to research what some early church fathers had said, meaning maybe it knew of some quotes that supports what @WPM was alleging about Justin, or maybe it agreed with @WPM take on what Justin had said. At least chatgpt is intellectually honest about things and not misrepresenting someone's view like some in here are doing.

Your basis for thinking that someone's view is being misrepresented is an AI that simply gives you information that it finds on the Internet that may or may not be true. Your trust in ChatGPT is unfounded.

I will take Chatgpt any day over that of someone misrepresenting someone's view, making that person look like the most idiotic person on the planet. Meaning Justin Martyr in this case.

LOL! ChatGPT is just giving you the OPINIONS that it finds on the Internet! How do you know that those opinions are correct?

Are you really this naive? Christians have believed idiotic things from the beginning of the NT church. It's not like there were no early church fathers who believed idiotic things. Do I need to prove to you that they believed some idiotic things or are you already aware of that?

Too bad I can't say that about Amils at times, that they are being intellectually honest and not blatantly misrepresenting someone's view, where some Amils are insisting that Justin Martyr was so stupid that he believed a millennium could actually follow the 2nd coming without it involving a little season following the millennium.

You are very naive. You are acting as if all of those early church fathers had access to the Internet and could do the kind of in depth studies we can do now with Bible software and online Bibles. Are you really not aware that they believed some nonsense back then just like many Christians still do now?

Your whole basis for thinking these early church fathers are being misrepresented is ChatGPT and nothing else. Please explain to me why you exalt ChatGPT as if it is all knowing and never gives any feedback that is not true?

Except there can't be a little season after the millennium if satan is cast into the LOF during the 2nd coming. Name one Premil today who agrees with that, that satan is cast into theLOF at the 2nd comimg and that the millennium follows the 2nd coming.

Justin martyr lived closer to the times of the apostles than we do today. And even today no Premil would dare conclude that satan is cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming and that the millennium follows that.

Clearly, undeniably, @WPM is misrepresenting Justin Martyrs's view. And if that's not bad enough as is, he goes the extra mile to make Justin come across as one that had little to no reading comprehension. That Justin lacked any type of intelligence, that he couldn't even see that there is no way there can be a millennium unless there is a little season that follows it.

Clearly, undeniably, you have no actual proof to back up what you're saying. You don't understand that many of the early church fathers did not even speak much about end times doctrine. It wasn't their focus back then. So, it's not surprising that some of them would've believed things that were not true and made no sense. Why do you think he wasn't capable of believing any nonsense when we both know that many Christians believe at least some nonsense?

 

[shepherdsword]

LOL. That is the usual response of Premillennialist when they realize what they're saying is false. Suddenly they become Amillennialists. At least we have gained solid territory today.

LOL....A typical amil twisting of reality to see only what they want to see <sigh>

 

[shepherdsword]

So, now that you agree with us Amillennialists that Satan was bound 2000 years ago, can you give me one single historic quote that shows that these early fathers believed in a second binding of Satan at the second coming for 1000 years?

I will not hold my breath. I know, you know, and the reader knows, you are totally winging it (like DivaD).

This deliverance is not the binding of Satan in the absss. It is to set a captive free. Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven:

Lk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

This is in perfect harmony with:

Rv 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

We see here that Satan was cast down to earth for a season. It is why he roams the EARTH:

1 Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

This is in stark contrast with:

Rv 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

 

[WPM]

Isn't it interesting that Premills can see that Jesus bound the spiritual enemy long ago, but they try to say it only related to casting out demons and nothing more. They miss that Jesus talked about binding the strong man, not the strong men. And they have no idea what the strong man's goods and his house represent.

They don't try to say that the binding of the strong man had anything to do with completely incapacitating the strong man. They see it as him being bound from doing a certain thing. So, they don't see that as being a literal binding. With that being the case, why do they think that the binding of Satan involves him being literally bound to the point of being completely incapacitated? There's never any consistency in the Premill approach to interpreting scripture. It's just random.

... and they only do it when we give them quotes from the early Chiliasts. That is the way the glean their position - from man.

 

[WPM]

In this case I was only using Chatgpt to research what some early church fathers had said, meaning maybe it knew of some quotes that supports what @WPM was alleging about Justin, or maybe it agreed with @WPM take on what Justin had said. At least chatgpt is intellectually honest about things and not misrepresenting someone's view like some in here are doing. I will take Chatgpt any day over that of someone misrepresenting someone's view, making that person look like the most idiotic person on the planet. Meaning Justin Martyr in this case.

Too bad I can't say that about Amils at times, that they are being intellectually honest and not blatantly misrepresenting someone's view, where some Amils are insisting that Justin Martyr was so stupid that he believed a millennium could actually follow the 2nd coming without it involving a little season following the millennium. Except there can't be a little season after the millennium if satan is cast into the LOF during the 2nd coming. Name one Premil today who agrees with that, that satan is cast into theLOF at the 2nd comimg and that the millennium follows the 2nd coming.

Justin martyr lived closer to the times of the apostles than we do today. And even today no Premil would dare conclude that satan is cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming and that the millennium follows that.

Clearly, undeniably, @WPM is misrepresenting Justin Martyrs's view. And if that's not bad enough as is, he goes the extra mile to make Justin come across as one that had little to no reading comprehension. That Justin lacked any type of intelligence, that he couldn't even see that there is no way there can be a millennium unless there is a little season that follows it.

Yah-de-dah-de-dah. More noise, more opinion, and zero evidence.

Do you realize people are watching on?

 

[WPM]

This deliverance is not the binding of Satan in the absss. It is to set a captive free. Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven:

Lk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

This is in perfect harmony with:

Rv 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

We see here that Satan was cast down to earth for a season. It is why he roams the EARTH:

1 Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

This is in stark contrast with:

Rv 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Same victory 2000 years ago. Same binding 2000 years ago. Same casting down from heaven 2000 years ago.

Amils agree with Irenaeus and Justin Martyr.

Can you give me one single historic quote that shows that these early fathers believed in a second binding of Satan at the second coming for 1000 years?

 

[WPM]

In this case I was only using Chatgpt to research what some early church fathers had said, meaning maybe it knew of some quotes that supports what @WPM was alleging about Justin, or maybe it agreed with @WPM take on what Justin had said. At least chatgpt is intellectually honest about things and not misrepresenting someone's view like some in here are doing. I will take Chatgpt any day over that of someone misrepresenting someone's view, making that person look like the most idiotic person on the planet. Meaning Justin Martyr in this case.

Too bad I can't say that about Amils at times, that they are being intellectually honest and not blatantly misrepresenting someone's view, where some Amils are insisting that Justin Martyr was so stupid that he believed a millennium could actually follow the 2nd coming without it involving a little season following the millennium. Except there can't be a little season after the millennium if satan is cast into the LOF during the 2nd coming. Name one Premil today who agrees with that, that satan is cast into theLOF at the 2nd comimg and that the millennium follows the 2nd coming.

Justin martyr lived closer to the times of the apostles than we do today. And even today no Premil would dare conclude that satan is cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming and that the millennium follows that.

Clearly, undeniably, @WPM is misrepresenting Justin Martyrs's view. And if that's not bad enough as is, he goes the extra mile to make Justin come across as one that had little to no reading comprehension. That Justin lacked any type of intelligence, that he couldn't even see that there is no way there can be a millennium unless there is a little season that follows it.

LOL.

1. So, where did Justin teach "Jesus returns binds Satan, resurrects the righteous, and reigns for 1,000 years? Give us a hard quotes, instead of some computer talking to you.
2. So, where did Justin teach "After that comes the “little season” (cf. Revelation 20:3) when Satan is loosed again"? Give us a hard quotes, instead of some computer talking to you.
3. So, where did Justin teach "Then Satan is finally thrown into the Lake of Fire along with the wicked (Rev. 20:10)"? Give us a hard quotes, instead of some computer talking to you.
4. So, where did Justin teach "Then comes the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev. 20:11–15)"? Give us a hard quotes, instead of some computer talking to you.

 

[WPM]

Isn't it interesting that Premills can see that Jesus bound the spiritual enemy long ago, but they try to say it only related to casting out demons and nothing more. They miss that Jesus talked about binding the strong man, not the strong men. And they have no idea what the strong man's goods and his house represent.

They don't try to say that the binding of the strong man had anything to do with completely incapacitating the strong man. They see it as him being bound from doing a certain thing. So, they don't see that as being a literal binding. With that being the case, why do they think that the binding of Satan involves him being literally bound to the point of being completely incapacitated? There's never any consistency in the Premill approach to interpreting scripture. It's just random.

You hit the nail on the head. It is duplicity. They wing it with every passage because they have nothing. They blow with the wind. No Scripture is ever safe around them. They will give you whatever answer enables Premillennialism. It is Premillennialism at any cost - even if they know that they are twisting the sacred text.