22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truth7t7]

No, I agree time does not exist in eternity. But the martyred saints lived and reigned with Christ in TIME (a thousand years), before they entered into the eternal Kingdom of God in heaven, where they are now reigning with Him without TIME forever.

(The Souls) of the martyred saints are living and reigning in the Lord's spiritual, you desperately try to bring this to the literal earthly, in connection with the Lord's resurrection, laying a false foundation to interpret "First Resurrection" (WRONG)

You think I'm ignorant of your tactics, hardly!

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm glad to see you agree! When time given this earth shall be no more, the age to come shall be eternal, and therefore no more time. Time is written symbolically a thousand years so that none can ascertain when the end of this age and the Lord returns shall be.

A Thousand Years is used to explain God is outside of time, where one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day

 

[rwb]

(The Souls) of the martyred saints are living and reigning in the Lord's spiritual, you desperately try to bring this to the literal earthly, in connection with the Lord's resurrection, laying a false foundation to interpret "First Resurrection" (WRONG)

You think I'm ignorant of your tactics, hardly!

You may be ignorant of what I'm talking about, but what tactics exactly? Mankind is created with a spirit (breath of life) and a body (dust of the earth) and together they are called "living souls." We are only complete living souls, which every living breathing creature on earth is, when we are both spirit and body. When we are born again in addition to the natural spirit every living creature has, in faith we also possess the life-giving Spirit of Christ. Through His Spirit in us when we die, we leave our body as living spirit and ascend to heaven to be with Christ not as complete living souls, but as living spiritual soul. This is what John is given to understand regarding the martyred saints. They were complete living souls on earth where they lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years. Then when they died, because they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and have eternal spiritual life through Him, they go still as living soul (spiritual body) to heaven where they continue to live and reign with Christ until His Kingdom is complete and He returns again. Then the living souls in heaven will be reunited with another body. The body then will not be mortal and corruptible but immortal and incorruptible. Then believers clothed in immortality are ready to live with Christ forever once again as complete living soul.

 

[rwb]

A Thousand Years is used to explain God is outside of time, where one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day

Yes, you continue to repeat this, but have not yet biblically proven what you allege? It's fine to have an opinion about Bible doctrine, we all have opinions, but unless we can prove through the Word of God that our opinions are biblical, they remain our opinion and should be re-considered.

 

[Truth7t7]

You may be ignorant of what I'm talking about, but what tactics exactly? Mankind is created with a spirit (breath of life) and a body (dust of the earth) and together they are called "living souls." We are only complete living souls, which every living breathing creature on earth is, when we are both spirit and body. When we are born again in addition to the natural spirit every living creature has, in faith we also possess the life-giving Spirit of Christ. Through His Spirit in us when we die, we leave our body as living spirit and ascend to heaven to be with Christ not as complete living souls, but as living spiritual soul. This is what John is given to understand regarding the martyred saints. They were complete living souls on earth where they lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years. Then when they died, because they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and have eternal spiritual life through Him, they go still as living soul (spiritual body) to heaven where they continue to live and reign with Christ until His Kingdom is complete and He returns again. Then the living souls in heaven will be reunited with another body. The body then will not be mortal and corruptible but immortal and incorruptible. Then believers clothed in immortality are ready to live with Christ forever once again as complete living soul.

That was a long read, and it didn't deal with the topic

The souls seen were martyred saints, Revelation 20:1-8 is in the Lord's spiritual realm, where the martyred souls are living and reigning with the Lord

I feel like I'm writing to a premillennialist, trying to explain that seen is the Lord's spiritual, smiles!

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, you continue to repeat this, but have not yet biblically proven what you allege? It's fine to have an opinion about Bible doctrine, we all have opinions, but unless we can prove through the Word of God that our opinions are biblical, they remain our opinion and should be re-considered.

Scripture is very clear, the Lord is in the spiritual realm, and this is explained that one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day

Yes Revelation 20:1-8 is 100% in the Lord's spiritual realm, as you try desperately to drag this into literal earthly time just like a premillennialist (Wrong)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[WPM]

Scripture is very clear, the Lord is in the spiritual realm, and this is explained that one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day

Yes Revelation 20:1-8 is 100% in the Lord's spiritual realm, as you try desperately to drag this into literal earthly time just like a premillennialist (Wrong)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

But there a series of events that occur during that thousand years. Do you accept that? What started this thousand years? When did it start?

 

[Truth7t7]

But there a series of events that occur during that thousand years. Do you accept that? What started this thousand years? When did it start?

God started the (Thousand Years)

Satan being bound for a (Thousand Years) is by God's will in the 6th vial seen in Revelation 16:12 that must be poured for Satan to be loose as you have been shown "Several Times"

Your continued claim this binding in Revelation 20:2-3 took place on Calvary is "False"

Satan is bound by the 6th vial in "God's Soverign Will" from deceiving the nations to battle, this binding for a (Thousand Years) began before the creation in God the Alpha/Omega

 

[WPM]

God started the (Thousand Years)

Satan being bound for a (Thousand Years) is by God's will in the 6th vial seen in Revelation 16:12 that must be poured for Satan to be loose as you have been shown "Several Times"

Your continued claim this binding in Revelation 20:2-3 took place on Calvary is "False"

Satan is bound by the 6th vial in "God's Soverign Will" from deceiving the nations to battle, this binding for a (Thousand Years) began before the creation in God the Alpha/Omega

Do you believe in corroboration? Of course, you do not. You make your own theology up as you go by merging Scofield's nonsense with extreme mystical forms of Full Preterism. This has resulted in a confusing obscure concoction.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you believe in corroboration? Of course, you do not. You make your own theology up as you go by merging Scofield's nonsense with extreme mystical forms of Full Preterism. This has resulted in a confusing obscure concoction.

Your claims are "False"

You have no response except personal attacks, Reformed Preterist Escgatology is the lie, and many are caught in its snare

You deny a future literal human man that will be (Daniel's Little Horn) (Paul's Man Of Sin) (John's The Beast) "Scary"!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[WPM]

Your claims are "False"

You have no response except personal attacks, Reformed Preterist Escgatology is the lie, and many are caught in its snare

You deny a future literal human man that will be (Daniel's Little Horn) (Paul's Man Of Sin) (John's The Beast) "Scary"!

Jesus Is The Lord

You make your own theology up as you go by merging Scofield's nonsense with extreme mystical forms of Full Preterism.

 

[Truth7t7]

You make your own theology up as you go by merging Scofield's nonsense with extreme mystical forms of Full Preterism.

Once Again, that is your opinion and it's "False"

You deny a future literal human man that will be (Daniel's Little Horn) (Paul's Man Of Sin) (John's The Beast) "Scary"!

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[rwb]

That was a long read, and it didn't deal with the topic

The souls seen were martyred saints, Revelation 20:1-8 is in the Lord's spiritual realm, where the martyred souls are living and reigning with the Lord

I feel like I'm writing to a premillennialist, trying to explain that seen is the Lord's spiritual, smiles!

The martyred souls are indeed in heaven. How did they get there? They lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, for which a thousand years equates before they died. It is because they were already spiritually alive in Christ when they died, they as living souls ascended to heaven after they were martyred for their faith.

I feel like I'm talking to someone who says he is Amil but seems not to understand the doctrine??? You don't understand what the first resurrection is, so you don't understand how these living souls in heaven were spiritually alive eternally in Christ before they died. John is proving that death of the body cannot hold those who lived and reigned with Christ in life because in time (a thousand years) they had part in the first resurrection through the resurrection life of Christ.

 

[rwb]

Scripture is very clear, the Lord is in the spiritual realm, and this is explained that one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day

Yes Revelation 20:1-8 is 100% in the Lord's spiritual realm, as you try desperately to drag this into literal earthly time just like a premillennialist (Wrong)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Yes the Lord is in His spiritual realm! What you fail to understand is that when we have partaken of Christ in life we too are SPIRITUALLY living and reigning with Him. It does not matter whether we are physically alive or that we have died, we shall never again be separated from the Lord after we have part in His resurrection life. His Spirit in us will never depart from us, so death of our body is simply a transition from this earth to heaven, where we are as the angels in heaven spiritual body, or as John writes living souls. That's why Christ says, "he who lives and believes in Me shall neve die"! I believe Christ, but you apparently don't believe Him???

I'm not desperately trying to drag anything anywhere! I'm proving you lack understanding of the "first resurrection" so you try to force "one day AS a thousand years" to "one day IS a thousand years", then you get frustrated because others tell you this is your own private interpretation.

 

[Truth7t7]

The martyred souls are indeed in heaven. How did they get there? They lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, for which a thousand years equates before they died.

I Disagree, the martyred souls live and reign with the Lord after death, in the realm of one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day

Nothing even hints at your claim of them being saved, and the lived and reigned prior to death, that's your private interpretation

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes the Lord is in His spiritual realm! What you fail to understand is that when we have partaken of Christ in life we too are SPIRITUALLY living and reigning with Him. It does not matter whether we are physically alive or that we have died, we shall never again be separated from the Lord after we have part in His resurrection life. His Spirit in us will never depart from us, so death of our body is simply a transition from this earth to heaven, where we are as the angels in heaven spiritual body, or as John writes living souls. That's why Christ says, "he who lives and believes in Me shall neve die"! I believe Christ, but you apparently don't believe Him???

I'm not desperately trying to drag anything anywhere! I'm proving you lack understanding of the "first resurrection" so you try to force "one day AS a thousand years" to "one day IS a thousand years", then you get frustrated because others tell you this is your own private interpretation.

You have proved nothing, It's your false claim concerning the (First Resurrection)

You build long elaborate stories trying to tie the words (First Resurrection) as being saved and partaking in the resurrection of Jesus Christ (Reformed Eschatology) Laughable

(First Resurrection) is nothing more than those that are (First) to rise in the future resurrection, (The Dead In Christ Shall Rise First) they are blessed to partake in this future (First Resurrection) its that simple

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[rwb]

I Disagree, the martyred souls live and reign with the Lord after death, in the realm of one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day

Nothing even hints at your claim of them being saved, and the lived and reigned prior to death, that's your private interpretation

Believers live and reign with the Lord in life and in death. John, speaking while alive is living and reigning with Christ in time, this age, symbolized a thousand years. John didn't stop living and reigning with Christ after his death, he simply left his dead body and spiritually ascended to heaven to live and reign with the Lord there.

Revelation 1:6 (KJV) And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

The verse is written in past tense. "they LIVED and REIGNED with Christ a thousand years." That means before their death ended their TIME (symbolized a thousand years) on earth, life with Christ eternally had already begun. Since they possessed the Holy Spirit, bodily death could not keep them from ascending to heaven a living (spirit) soul, to be as the angels in heaven.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Then when we get to vs 6 John writes of others who shall also reign with Christ in TIME, symbolized a thousand years. How & why? Because they are part of the "first resurrection" that means to have part in the resurrection life of Christ before physically dying. This proves a thousand years are not literal but symbolically representing the entire age of Gospel grace.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[rwb]

You have proved nothing, It's your false claim concerning the (First Resurrection)

You build long elaborate stories trying to tie the words (First Resurrection) as being saved and partaking in the resurrection of Jesus Christ (Reformed Eschatology) Laughable

(First Resurrection) is nothing more than those that are (First) to rise in the future resurrection, (The Dead In Christ Shall Rise First) they are blessed to partake in this future (First Resurrection) its that simple

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

I always smile inwardly when you present this argument using this verse out of context. We all know why you do this. Presenting the context of this passage unequivocally proves you err in believing it proves two bodily resurrections.

The living souls who have physically died will return with the Lord. Their bodies will be first resurrected from the graves and caught up with Christ in the air. Followed IMMEDIATELY by those who still remain on earth alive when Christ returns, shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM, them who? The physically dead in Christ that arose up first!

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It's time to get rid of your selective reading habits and start believing what sayeth the whole Word of God!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Lord is in the spiritual, where one day is a thousand years, eternal

Read it again and again, one day "With The Lord" is as a thousand years, and yes it applies to the very same spiritual realm of the Lord seen in Revelation 20:1-8

Jesus dwells where one day is a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It does not say that in the spiritual realm one day equals one thousand years. That is ridiculous. It says one day with the Lord is AS a thousand years AND a thousand years AS one day. What that means is that to the Lord, who created time, one day and one thousand years make no difference. No amount of time makes any difference to Him since He exists outside of time as the Creator of time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I always smile inwardly when you present this argument using this verse out of context. We all know why you do this. Presenting the context of this passage unequivocally proves you err in believing it proves two bodily resurrections.

The living souls who have physically died will return with the Lord. Their bodies will be first resurrected from the graves and caught up with Christ in the air. Followed IMMEDIATELY by those who still remain on earth alive when Christ returns, shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM, them who? The physically dead in Christ that arose up first!

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It's time to get rid of your selective reading habits and start believing what sayeth the whole Word of God!

Exactly. The context is not hard to see there and, yet, he's still missing it. Unbelievers are not in view at all in that passage so it has nothing to do with the order of resurrection as if it's saying believers will be resurrected first and then unbelievers. No, it says nothing about unbelievers there. The dead in Christ being resurrected first has to do with the order of events that Paul referenced in the passage. First, the dead in Christ are resurrected. Then, they, along with those who are alive and remain, are caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. That is the order. It has nothing to do with the order of resurrections.