22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

Him ruling the nations (and they are on earth if you notice) with us for 1000 years is basic clear bible. Calling that a deception makes it crystal clear what spirit you work in.

What nations will He be ruling exactly? Please explain how He will rule over them after having destroyed them.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This passage shows the context of what it means for Him to rule with a rod of iron. It paints a picture of complete destruction. It shows Jesus smiting the nations. Treading them in "the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God". It talks about the destruction of "all men, both free and bond, both small and great". So, who exactly will He rule over after destroying all people left on the earth "both free and bond, both small and great"?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wisdom is justified of her children. The sense of the word for that time embraces 1000 years.

2 Peter
3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison


It is after this thousand years of reigning on earth that Satan is loosed and God sends fire to destroy the wicked and makes a new earth and heaven.

It is also at this time that the great white throne judgment happens

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened
Only after this in Rev 21 do we see the new earth.

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away;

Those who claim this happens the day Jesus returns to earth do not know the word of God

2 Peter 3:10-12 indicates that the heavens and earth will be burned up on the day of the Lord, which you say lasts for 1000 years. So, at which point during the thousand years do the heavens and earth get burned up then? And what about Satan's little season in that case? How can that time period occur if the heavens and earth have already been burned up before that? I suppose now that I've pointed out this flaw in your view, you will try to say that the day of the Lord extends beyond 1000 years for a little season. You'll do whatever it takes to keep your doctrine afloat, right?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 20:6 ...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Busted ye be.

Where does that say that they reign on the earth? I'm not seeing that.

Also, aren't Christ's followers already "priests of God and of Christ", as the following passages indicate:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Why don't you base your understanding of the timing of a verse like Revelation 20:6 on verses like these? Because of doctrinal bias perhaps?

 

[Marty fox]

So you think you now rule the world with an iron rod 'spiritually' with the saints and Jesus. OK. I guess you also imagine that Satan was in the pit and just popped out on parole for a while now as well. OK. How about living hundreds of years, do you think we do that now also? How about the fast growing crops (a handful of corn even on a mountain will grow like cedar trees)? Do we see that as well now? Let me guess if a man dies at a hundred today he is considered a child? I guess you would have to pretend that is talking about heaven or something. If so I guess you think there are babies born in heaven? (not that I am expressing an opinion either way on that)

Long story short, there simply is no fit for claims that what is described in the 1000 yr rule of Christ to today.

The problem here is that you don’t understand what ruling means to an amil. Futurist have a different understanding of the ruling than amils .

Futurist think that it’s physical just like Israel did but Jesus had a more superior better kingdom than Israel could ever imagine. Israel was wrong back then just like so many Christians are wrong today

Jesus said to pilot that he had no authority over Jesus unless it was given to him from above . Thus Jesus was still reigned over Pilot even though pilot had the earthly authority over Jesus.

We reign spiritually with Jesus now that was the kingdom Jesus brought to the world but Israel didn’t want it so Jesus gave it to the church made up of both Jew and gentile I just wish more Christian’s would receive it now because you are missing out on a huge blessing

 

[dad]

Revelation 20:1-6 (Thousand Years) is nothing more than a non-literal explanation of the Lords eternal spiritual realm, yes Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

You take a spiritual explanation (Thousand Years) and desperately try to build a literal 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth around it, your teaching and belief is a fabricated fairy tale of man, no Kingdom or mortal humans on earth are seen, but many falsely claim they are seen

So no real rule with His saints then, just some spirit realm thingie. OK. Happy waving stuff away I guess.

 

[dad]

Satan Is Currently Bound For 1,000 Years Explained

I thought someone said he was now released, was that not you?

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

I see, so where can we find some of these non literal men dying as a child at 1000 years old? Spirits die?

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Is that sort a limbo?

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

Right, so by your story we can expect the tribulation after that pretend 1000 years sometime? Ha

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Yeah we get it. The tribulation and all events in it happen after the pretend unreal spiritual so called 1000 years! Quite a little fantasy you have there.

 

[dad]

A "Rod Of Iron" has absolutely nothing to do with a reign of Jesus Christ with his saints as you falsely claim, you bend and twist the interpretation trying desperately to build a false Millennial Kingdom on this earth, a fabricated fairy tale of man

I see, so I made up these verses?

Psalms 2:6



Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

Psalms 2:7



I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalms 2:8



Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalms 2:9



Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

The "Rod Of Iron" is a tool of "Destruction" used by the Potter to "Destroy" his vessels

So when we hear 'thy rod and thy staff they comfort me' we should expect that it really means He is about to whack His people to death?

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

In both cases we see the word rule. Do you think it could mean rule?

 

[dad]

You are obviously just a clown who has no interest in engaging in serious discussion and has no interest in attempting to make a coherent argument using scripture to back up your claims.

You have something against Jesus ruling the nations? Or do you just like to say the word clown?

 

[dad]

So, I guess we should encourage peope to go move to Israel since, according to you, where someone lives will be the key to salvation. At what point should we start telling people to move to Israel to ensure their salvation?

Why lie? I pointed out clearly that the remnant saved in the end believe. Is there something wrong with believing in Jesus if you live in Israel?

 

[WPM]

I thought someone said he was now released, was that not you?

I see, so where can we find some of these non literal men dying as a child at 1000 years old? Spirits die?
Is that sort a limbo?


Right, so by your story we can expect the tribulation after that pretend 1000 years sometime? Ha


Yeah we get it. The tribulation and all events in it happen after the pretend unreal spiritual so called 1000 years! Quite a little fantasy you have there.

You have been taught wrong.

Isaiah 65:17-21 declares, “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.”

The one thing we know for sure is that Scripture does not contradict itself in any way. The way you explain this passage would lead us to believe that this passage is the one exception to this rule in Scripture. Of course, we know it isn’t (or can’t be). This much-debated passage before us must therefore beautifully correlates with other similar Scripture, which informs us that the Coming of Christ is climactic and that the new earth is totally free of the curse. It is essential that we always interpret difficult passages like this with other clearer and simpler passages.

The first thing we see in this reading is the time period in view; the Old Testament prophet explains that he is specifically speaking of the “new heavens and a new earth.” This is indisputable and cannot be a matter for theological debate. Whilst there are challenging parts to this passage, we can be sure of the fact that the detail described will be fulfilled in the “new heavens and a new earth.” In fact, the wording is so explicit in relation to the time-period that it removes any ambiguity or uncertainty for the reader on that front. This is the first absolute we can establish with this reading.

Isaiah 65 is speaking about the NHNE, not some imaginary millennium in the future, which none of the OT prophets, Christ or any of the NT writers recognized. What is more: it doesn't say that people die there. Read the original Hebrew.

Let us have a literal word-by-word look at the Hebrew pertaining to Isaiah 65:20.

לֹא־יִֽהְיֶ֨ה מִשָּׁ֜ם עֹ֗וד ע֤וּל יָמִים֙ וְזָקֵ֔ן אֲשֶׁ֥ר
Lo'- yihªyeh mishaam `owd `uwl yaamiym wªzaaqeen 'ªsher
Not be hence more an infant [of] days, an old man after

לֹא־
lō-
Not

יִֽהְיֶ֨ה
yih-yeh
Be

מִשָּׁ֜ם
miš-šām
Hence

ע֗וֹד
‘ō-wḏ,
More

ע֤וּל
‘ūl
an infant

יָמִים֙
yā-mîm
[of] days

וְזָקֵ֔ן
wə-zā-qên,
an old man

אֲשֶׁ֥ר
’ă-šer
After

What is this telling us?

Basically: a child will never become old on the new earth.

לֹֽא־יְמַלֵּ֖א אֶת־יָמָ֑יו כִּ֣י הַנַּ֗עַר בֶּן־מֵאָ֤ה שָׁנָה֙ יָמ֔וּת
Lo'- yªmalee''et- yaamaayw Kiy hana`ar ben- mee'aah shaanaah yaamuwt
Not fulfill your days inasmuch a child old an hundred years die

לֹֽא־
lō-
Not

יְמַלֵּ֖א
yə-mal-lê
Fulfill

אֶת־
’eṯ-
Your

יָמָ֑יו
yā-māw;
Days

כִּ֣י
kî
Inasmuch

הַנַּ֗עַר
han-na-‘ar,
a child

בֶּן־
ben-
Old

מֵאָ֤ה
mê-’āh
Hundred

שָׁנָה֙
šā-nāh
Years

יָמ֔וּת
yā-mūṯ,
Die

What is this telling us?

The exact same thing, only in different terms.

This is called synonymous parallelism. It is telling us that a child will never become old on the new earth. This line reinforces what has just been said. It confirms the thought of the impending reality of no more death in the eternal state for the righteous. In eternity there will be no more aging or dying. It is not going to be like our corrupt age where infants eventually get old. It will not be like the here-and-now where a man could live to be an old person of a hundred years of age and then die.

This passage is actually saying the opposite to what many think. What this is saying is: there will be no more aging, curse or death on the new earth. Every glorified saints will have come to full maturity in Christ with their new perfect eternal bodies. It is the next line of Isaiah 65:20 that has confused many, because the translators have not interpreted it in a literal word-for-word sense. It is not saying there will be more babies, death and old men. It is saying the opposite to what they are alleging. It is saying that there will be no more aging: children getting old, old people and people dying! It is describing eternity to an Old Testament audience in terms they can grasp.

The new heavens and new earth will indeed be a glorious victorious perfect state where death is unknown. God is saying that the eternal state will actually be free of death for young and old alike. This passage is telling us that there will be no more death on the new earth! The Hebrew word Lo' (Strong’s 3808) means “no” or “not.” The word is a simple negation. The word is found twice in this much-debated new heavens and new earth verse.

Debate in Isaiah 65:20 centers in on the use of the original word yaamuw meaning “die” or “death.” What should we relate it to? Is there indeed “death” on the new earth? Also, should the death be related to the “child” in the second phrase or the “sinner” in the third phrase? What is more, in what way should it read? I must admit, if we are to read it in its most natural way it fits perfectly with the context. So why change it? I believe it should be applied to the “child” as it should agree with the first phrase that is simply a reinforcement of the same truth. It then fits perfectly with the whole overall teaching of the prophet on the perfection and bliss of the eternal state.

No (לֹֽא־ or Lo') longer will an infant become like an old man,
No (לֹֽא־ or Lo') longer will a child reach one hundred and die.

This is Old Testament verbiage that describes eternity to the Old Testament listener. It is telling us: no one is going to age! This relates to the new heaven and new earth not some supposed future millennium – that will never happen.

 

[WPM]

You have something against Jesus ruling the nations? Or do you just like to say the word clown?

Why twist what he is saying?

 

[dad]

Can you show me where exactly in Romans 9:6-8 where it indicates that being part of true Israel requires someone to be a natural descendant of the nation of Israel? I can't seem to find that.

Can you post the quote from me that said any such foolishness?

So, you believe God is a respe(shows favoritism because of ethnicity or nationality) then?

He will not throw the Jews all into hell when they get saved. Sorry if that is not a good thing in your mind.

Scripture repeatedly teaches that He is not. Why would He save everyone in Israel one day but not the people of other nations?

Because they believe and repent. God even saves Jews if they do that. Is that a problem for you?

A remnant was already saved in Paul's day (Romans 11:5) and Israelites have been getting saved ever since. Why do you act as if none of them have been getting saved all along?

Why pretend I act in that evil way? Can you not speak the truth at all? There is also a time when the remnant in the end get saved. Why does that bother you?

They will? How? And why?

God knows. But they will mourn as for an only son when they realize Jesus was the messiah all along.

What about other nations?

There is huge multitudes saved in the tribulation. Not just Jews.

 

[dad]

Are you even trying to understand the scripture that you read? Hebrews 12:22-24 is talking about a current reality. It says "You HAVE COME to Mount Zion". It doesn't say "you WILL COME to Mount Zion". It's talking about current spiritual realities here.

The current reality is that we are on earth. Is that news to you?

Hebrews 12:22 You have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

It says "You have come to God...to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant". Do you think that's talking about the future, too?

We have come to Jesus. We have not yet went to New Jerusalem.

 

[dad]

Why twist what he is saying?

Perhaps you can explain what he said then?

 

[dad]

You don't seem to have any understanding whatsoever of spiritual realities, which is concerning. Can you tell me how you interpret this passage:

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Not sure what you are saying. Jesus went to heaven, yes. No one else who is alive now did. You do realize that much?

 

[Truth7t7]

I thought someone said he was now released, was that not you?

I see, so where can we find some of these non literal men dying as a child at 1000 years old? Spirits die?
Is that sort a limbo?


Right, so by your story we can expect the tribulation after that pretend 1000 years sometime? Ha


Yeah we get it. The tribulation and all events in it happen after the pretend unreal spiritual so called 1000 years! Quite a little fantasy you have there.

A big non response without scriptural support, talk, talk, talk, empty, not to be taken seriously

 

[dad]

Where will we be meeting Him? In heaven? No. Paul said we will meet Him "in the air". If we're going to heaven at that point, then what is the point of meeting Him "in the air" first? I don't believe your doctrine has any explanation for that.

Now you are talking about the Rapture. WE meet Him in the air then. If we die now we go to be where He is. Not sure what is foggy in your head about that.

 

[Truth7t7]

I see, so I made up these verses?

Psalms 2:6



Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

Psalms 2:7



I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psalms 2:8



Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psalms 2:9



Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.



So when we hear 'thy rod and thy staff they comfort me' we should expect that it really means He is about to whack His people to death?

In both cases we see the word rule. Do you think it could mean rule?

You have been clearly shown, the "Rod Of Iron" is a tool of destruction, Not a scepter of a king ruling

This is basic and in your face, and you still fight and kick to maintain the false teaching "Why"?

 

[dad]

What nations will He be ruling exactly? Please explain how He will rule over them after having destroyed them.

Did I say He detroyed everyone? That seems to be your idea not mine. He rules over ALL nations when He comes.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This passage shows the context of what it means for Him to rule with a rod of iron. It paints a picture of complete destruction.

No at all. He smites all who are enemies or fight Him. The flesh that the birds eat, in case this is news for you, are dead people! Not all people on earth!!

It shows Jesus smiting the nations. Treading them in "the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God". It talks about the destruction of "all men, both free and bond, both small and great". So, who exactly will He rule over after destroying all people left on the earth "both free and bond, both small and great"?

False! It talks about dead people of all nations, it is not talking about God killing everyone on earth alive!

 

[dad]

2 Peter 3:10-12 indicates that the heavens and earth will be burned up on the day of the Lord, which you say lasts for 1000 years. So, at which point during the thousand years do the heavens and earth get burned up then? And what about Satan's little season in that case? How can that time period occur if the heavens and earth have already been burned up before that? I suppose now that I've pointed out this flaw in your view, you will try to say that the day of the Lord extends beyond 1000 years for a little season. You'll do whatever it takes to keep your doctrine afloat, right?

Heaven and earth will be burned at the end of that day or time. At the end of the millennium. Not sure why having Satan released again for a few days or weeks or whatever, is a problem for you?