22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[dad]

No place in scripture does it teach a Kingdom on this earth for 1,000 years, as you have been shown "Several Times" Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's spiritual realm, no kingdom on this earth is seen or mortal humans present

When Jesus returns it is not in some spiritual realm! He comes just as He left here. Really. He stands on a physical mountain. Those who try to 'spititualize' it all away simply do not believe.

A 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth is a fabricated fairy tale of man, found no place in scripture

Rev 20:6 ...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Busted ye be.

You can claim it, shout it from the roof tops, no earthly kingdom or mortal humans are seen in Revelation 20:1-6 and you can't provide it because it doesn't exist, a "Fact"!

There are nations of real people actually in that 1000 years. No doubt, No question.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

So that is kingdoms! That is mortal people! Once again you are instantly exposed. Say uncle.

 

[Truth7t7]

When Jesus returns it is not in some spiritual realm! He comes just as He left here. Really. He stands on a physical mountain. Those who try to 'spititualize' it all away simply do not believe.

Rev 20:6 ...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Busted ye be.



There are nations of real people actually in that 1000 years. No doubt, No question.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

So that is kingdoms! That is mortal people! Once again you are instantly exposed. Say uncle.

Once Again!

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[dad]

Once Again!

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

So Jesus finally returns to earth as promised to rule, and then...? I missed the verse that says He sneaks back into the heavens?

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?

Did you think nations were flysing saucers?

2.) Physical Earthly Throne?

Nations will come year to year to Jerusalem, did you think that was on Mars?

3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

What did you think nations consisted of, ghosts??

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

Having fun waving stuff away in your own head?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

You are not God so to you a day is...well, a day!


Capice?

 

[Truth7t7]

So Jesus finally returns to earth as promised to rule, and then...? I missed the verse that says He sneaks back into the heavens?
Did you think nations were flysing saucers?

Nations will come year to year to Jerusalem, did you think that was on Mars?
What did you think nations consisted of, ghosts??



Having fun waving stuff away in your own head?
You are not God so to you a day is...well, a day!


Capice?

A response that shows the very reason why your not taken seriously, "The Truth"!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[n2thelight]

The book of revelation was written to seven literal church’s and revelation chapter 22:16 proves that Jesus was still giving them not us the message of revelation.

Just a simple question, where are we now in Biblical prophecy ?

 

[Marty fox]

Just a simple question, where are we now in Biblical prophecy ?

In revelation chapter 20 at the time af Stan’s release

 

[dad]

In revelation chapter 20 at the time af Stan’s release

So Jesus and His saints have been ruling for 1000 years already?

 

[dad]

A response that shows the very reason why your not taken seriously, "The Truth"!

Jesus Is The Lord

You are not God so to you a day is a day. Unless the word is used to denote a period of time and the word is used in that form. When we are told that He rules with His saints for one thousand years, and at the end of that period of time certain things will happen, that is clearly a thousand years. You may not be able to recognize it, but that is the truth.

 

[Marty fox]

So Jesus and His saints have been ruling for 1000 years already?

Yes we reign with him spiritually

 

[dad]

Yes we reign with him spiritually

So you think you now rule the world with an iron rod 'spiritually' with the saints and Jesus. OK. I guess you also imagine that Satan was in the pit and just popped out on parole for a while now as well. OK. How about living hundreds of years, do you think we do that now also? How about the fast growing crops (a handful of corn even on a mountain will grow like cedar trees)? Do we see that as well now? Let me guess if a man dies at a hundred today he is considered a child? I guess you would have to pretend that is talking about heaven or something. If so I guess you think there are babies born in heaven? (not that I am expressing an opinion either way on that)

Long story short, there simply is no fit for claims that what is described in the 1000 yr rule of Christ to today.

 

[Truth7t7]

So Jesus and His saints have been ruling for 1000 years already?

Revelation 20:1-6 (Thousand Years) is nothing more than a non-literal explanation of the Lords eternal spiritual realm, yes Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

You take a spiritual explanation (Thousand Years) and desperately try to build a literal 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth around it, your teaching and belief is a fabricated fairy tale of man, no Kingdom or mortal humans on earth are seen, but many falsely claim they are seen

 

[Truth7t7]

So Jesus and His saints have been ruling for 1000 years already?

Satan Is Currently Bound For 1,000 Years Explained

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Truth7t7]

So you think you now rule the world with an iron rod 'spiritually' with the saints and Jesus.

A "Rod Of Iron" has absolutely nothing to do with a reign of Jesus Christ with his saints as you falsely claim, you bend and twist the interpretation trying desperately to build a false Millennial Kingdom on this earth, a fabricated fairy tale of man

The "Rod Of Iron" is a tool of "Destruction" used by the Potter to "Destroy" his vessels

Jesus will "Destroy" the wicked at his return through his fierceness and wrath, as a Potter "Destroy's" his vessels with a "Rod Of Iron"

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He does not exercise that power until He comes for the most part. Not in the way of ruling the planet.
He will rule the world when He returns, likey or lumpy.

Correct, is that not obvious?


Yes

That depends on what part of that day or time we are talking about. It covers a lot.
In that case you must believe the abomination placed by the beast will happen three and a half years before that 1000 years is over. Because that is how long from that abomination till Jesus returns. That is of course ridiculous.
If you were God and going to rule with your saints for 1000 years, would you come to earth to do it or not?

Yes it does. Not sure what strange ideas lurk in your head.
He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. He also judges nations, and destroys the wicked. That is done in Person.
Don't mistake your inability to comprehend the concise replies of others with some lack on their part.
Besides, looking at the strength and consistency of your arguments I would think a one liner is overkill for a reply!

You are obviously just a clown who has no interest in engaging in serious discussion and has no interest in attempting to make a coherent argument using scripture to back up your claims.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Simple. Only the people of Israel, regardless of ancestry, who accept Messiah are Israel in any lasting or true sense of the word. The remnant will accept and truly be Israel. In other words the physical descendants of Jacob and Abraham (along with any who joined Israel according to God's criteria) will all be saved in the end in that land, and be saved.

So, I guess we should encourage peope to go move to Israel since, according to you, where someone lives will be the key to salvation. At what point should we start telling people to move to Israel to ensure their salvation?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When we are talking about that nation, such as in prophesy, then of course it is talking about Jewish people. So, to be part of true Israel it is not enough to be a descendant. They also need Jesus. Then they are Israel in every sense of the word. That happens when all Israel gets saved in the end.

Can you show me where exactly in Romans 9:6-8 where it indicates that being part of true Israel requires someone to be a natural descendant of the nation of Israel? I can't seem to find that.

Because the prophesy is for one day.
Prophesies such as God restoring them. He is not going to restore the few who got saved to the land today. I would think those Jews who got saved are part of the Bride of Christ. That is not the remnant that get saved later. As I said earlier I would be surprised if many of those saved Jews in heaven who return with Jesus would not want to spend a lot of time down here. Personally I much prefer New Jerusalem! But the Jewish remnant of that end time who all get saved I believe are protected by God and restored to that land.
Of course. Why would he not hope for his people?

I can't make any sense of what you're saying here. It's a convoluted mess.

Since the bible does say all Israel will be saved I guess there was a way! All Israel will not be saved in this world of the kingdoms of man. It gets saved by Jesus in the end. Why would anyone claim it would be saved other than that?

So, you believe God is a respe(shows favoritism because of ethnicity or nationality) then? Scripture repeatedly teaches that He is not. Why would He save everyone in Israel one day but not the people of other nations?

Some people seem to require more than others to get the point. Israel is known for stubbornness. But God knows and set aside a special time for the history of Israel (which was basically paused after they rejected Jesus) so that a remnant could be saved.

A remnant was already saved in Paul's day (Romans 11:5) and Israelites have been getting saved ever since. Why do you act as if none of them have been getting saved all along?

Such is the mercy of God.

What does this mean? Doesn't the mercy of God indicate that He wants all people to be saved?

Individuals Jewish people have been saved for thousands of years. The nation will all get saved in the end.

They will? How? And why? What about other nations? Does God not care as much about the people of other nations? That can't be because, as I pointed out earlier, God is not a respecter of persons.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

No idea where you pulled that one out of. Most early Christians were Jews. Many have been saved. How would you think God withheld salvation from them? Most have simply refused it!

So, why will they all accept it at some point in the future? Will God force them to accept it?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Have you went to New Jerusalem yet? Have you seen thousands of angels there? But be that as it may, what does that verse have to do with the 'true Israel'? It is a beautiful verse about how our future will be. Let me ask you something. If Mount Zion is New Jerusalem, does that mean there is not also a little old mount zion on earth?

Are you even trying to understand the scripture that you read? Hebrews 12:22-24 is talking about a current reality. It says "You HAVE COME to Mount Zion". It doesn't say "you WILL COME to Mount Zion". It's talking about current spiritual realities here.

Hebrews 12:22 You have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

It says "You have come to God...to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant". Do you think that's talking about the future, too?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm not going to read my post again--I know what I said. You're the one accusing me--you quote where you think I said what I said. Quite frankly, if I produce a picture of what Amils believe, and portray it somewhat negatively from my pov, that doesn't mean I've misrepresented it--only that from my pov I disagree with it. But you're the accuser--you provide the evidence. Either that or stop making baseless claims.

You don't ever present your view of Amil as if it's just from your point of view. You present your impressions of Amil as if they are facts.

I didn't say that you denied "all Israel will be saved." I said that in denying all *literal* Israel will be saved, you are in effect denying God's promise to Abraham concerning literal Israel. That was *my perspective* and not my depicting what Amils believe!

So enough of this claim that I misrepresent Amil.

I can claim whatever I want just as you can. It's from my perspective that you misrepresent Amil. You obviously think I shouldn't have a problem with you making claims from your perspective, so why would you have a problem with me making claims from my perspective?

My view of Amil has nothing to do with misrepresenting what you believe. I know you alter the definition of Israel to mean "the International Church." In that *it is my opinion* that you are rendering a promise about literal Israel to be null and void. That is what *in effect* you are doing, from my pov. I've not at all denied that you believe "all Israel will be saved" applies somehow within your own theology.

It comes across that way when you claim that we deny that God will keep His promises.

I have not once said that Premil teaches God's promises fail! Don't be ridiculous. It is from my vantage point that it appears *to me* that your position denies God's promise concerning literal Israel.

Premil? Did you mean Amil? Why can't you word it more like this then instead of just making outright claims that our view teaches that God's promises regarding Israel fail?

I don't have a clue what you're talking about? Maybe you should read what I've already written on this, because you seem to be unable to see what I was saying?

I read it. That isn't the issue. It's not possible that you didn't communicate clearly?

The people in the present age who are worthy to partake of the age to come are those who are Christians whether they live or die. They will enjoy resurrection from the dead and glorification, being made immortals.

Those who are alive won't be resurrected from the dead. Before, you seemed to claim that it is those who are resurrected from the dead who will take part in the age to come. You said nothing about those who are alive at the time.

I never said being resurrected is required to be worthy to be part of the age to come! Where do you get this? I'm afraid you don't comprehend things that I say, and then respond negatively as if you do understand them?

You absolutely came across that way! I don't get the feeling that you really have read Luke 20:34-36 very carefully.

Please read it carefully.

Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Please try to look at this objectively. First, Jesus indicated that people in this age "marry and are given in marriage". But, He indicated in the age to come that people won't get married. And He indicated that "they can no longer die". Yet, as a Premil, you believe that mortal people will be on the earth after Christ returns. Do you not believe that people will die during the thousand years, which is what you see as being the age to come? Do you not believe that people will get married during that time?

This is the point I was disputing. I agree that there will be no more death for those who are made immortal. But this does not say all people come to the culminating point of eternal judgment before Christ returns.

Matt 10.23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

As it was in Jesus' own time, so it will be before the 2nd Coming. Not all will have heard the Gospel clearly before Christ comes back. They will, I believe, enter into the Millennial Age just as they are, mortals in need of Salvation. Then will be their opportunity to choose, as Christian states are renewed, and the Gospel is preached throughout the earth.

Wait a minute here. Can you show me in Luke 20:34-36 where Jesus talked about these mortal people who will be allowed to survive into the age to come? Are you forgetting that Jesus indicated that those who are worthy of taking part in the age to come will not get married and will not die? How do you have mortals in the age to come in that case? You do not seem to be accepting what Jesus taught about who will be worthy of taking part in the age to come. He made it clear that it will only be people who have been made immortal since He very clearly said that those who are worthy of taking part in the age to come "can no longer die".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since that is where we go when we die, it is a reality.

You don't seem to have any understanding whatsoever of spiritual realities, which is concerning. Can you tell me how you interpret this passage:

Ephesians 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So He is in heaven. He is coming to receive us to be there also one day. That would be that pesky Rapture you try to ignore.

Notice it does not say we will walk down subway stairs to meet Him and go on a train. We go where He is. Not Detroit. Not Tel Aviv.

John 14:2

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2 Corinthians 5:6

Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

That is clear.


Wish? I guess He needs you to fulfil that wish, what are you His Genie?

Nothing in the bible says that. However, I might try that sometime for a laugh.

Where will we be meeting Him? In heaven? No. Paul said we will meet Him "in the air". If we're going to heaven at that point, then what is the point of meeting Him "in the air" first? I don't believe your doctrine has any explanation for that.