First read my original post in #148 its all explained in there and then my other post #159 about verse 24
I said that the Jews who believed in the OT before becoming Christians through the book of Daniel
Who Is The Antichrist? A Biblical Prespective.
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I said that the Jews who believed in the OT before becoming Christians through the book of Daniel
I didn't say that I said that they are saved in the same way as us by grace through faith.
I didn't disagree with you.
I asked, If OT reconciliation was sufficient, why was NT reconciliation necessary?
I never said that it was sufficient in the OT
Can you please at least address my points for the reason that the 70 weeks was given? its in the very same chapter. It keeps getting avoided
I need to determine your thinking in order to address your points.
So if reconciliation is not sufficient in the OT, then it is sufficient in the NT.
And Daniel being a prophet, his reference to reconciliation in Daniel 9:24 would be to NT reconciliation, not OT reconciliation.
And that clarification is one reason that the 70 weeks were given.
Indeed, one primary reason for the 70 weeks prophecy was to authenticate and validate Daniel as a bona fide prophet. As Jesus admonished:
Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Daniel was unarguably one of all the prophets speaking of Christ.
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The events in verse 24 were accomplish by Jesus only He can fulfill them but once again these things are still happening by the Jews and gentiles today.
What I am saying is that the OT Jews are saved like us by grace through faith and they proved it by their actions by resisting apostasy, defeating the enemy of God, staying faithful to God and rededicating the temple sacrifices.
Once again if you were a Jew living in the times of the Maccabees who would you of thought Daniel was talking about when Antiochus persecuted the Jews, desecrated the temple, ended the temple sacrifice and was judged by God through Judas Maccabees since these events happened after Daniel prophesied them?
Now can you please at least address my points for the reason that the 70 weeks were given recorded by Daniel in the very same chapter? It keeps getting avoided.
Certainly. But they all began at Calvary, and have been reality ever since.
I've updated post 166 to address your points.
Okay sure but they are saved in their faith of a future savior I have already stated that but what about the facts that I have posted can you At least address them you may see something in it I'll post some of them again.
The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.
Daniel 9:17-19
17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”
The 70 years would become 70 weeks of foreign control.
The Jews would go back and rebuild Jerusalem but not as free people but under foreign control. The command by the angel Gabriel is to know and understand the prophecy. The decree (the word to go and rebuild Jerusalem) would trigger the understanding of the time line of the vision. Thus the decree of king Cyrus is the key to know and understand the 70 weeks. The decree of king Cyrus gives us a concrete date and point in time of the 70 weeks.
Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.
I can't follow what you're asking for. Just start with one question, and I'll attempt to answer it.
Marty, for what it is worth....
Daniel 9:24
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
In Daniel 9:24–27, Gabriel delivers a prophecy that holds profound significance in God's plan of redemption. While he begins by addressing the restoration of Jerusalem and the physical elements necessary for its completion by the end of the 69th week, the true focus of this prophecy is not on the rebuilding of a city—it is on the final week, the last seven years, where the mareh vision will be fulfilled through the Messiah.
This final week carries the weight of six specific requirements that the Messiah alone can accomplish. These requirements are not arbitrary; they are the final steps in God’s plan to restore humanity spiritually, bringing His people back into a state of righteousness, akin to the original harmony found in the Garden of Eden. This restoration, as foretold, would take place through the Jews and in His holy city, Jerusalem. However, it would come at an immense cost.
The sacrifice of the Jewish people, in their unbelief, made it possible for the Messiah—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—to be given to the world as the ultimate atonement for sin. This was not an accident or a matter of human free will overriding divine authority; it was preordained from the very beginning. The Jews had no choice in this matter, just as there is no way any of us could ever deserve the sacrifice of Christ. And just as we cannot earn His grace, we also cannot repay the sacrifice of the Jewish people, who played a pivotal role in God’s redemptive plan.
Verse 24 serves as a foundational statement, revealing three critical aspects:
The duration of the prophecy is seventy weeks of years—a total of 490 literal years.
The prophecy is exclusively directed at Daniel’s people (the Jews) and their city (Jerusalem).
Within this final week, six divine requirements will be fulfilled by the Messiah, bringing the ultimate restoration.
These four verses (Daniel 9:24–27) act as a divine blueprint, laying out the boundaries and time structure for this prophecy. Just as the metal-man image in Daniel 2 provided a defined physical structure for understanding the rise and fall of kingdoms, Chapter 9 presents a time structure that is just as precise and unalterable. Within each of these measured time sections, Daniel reveals the actors, events, and divine missions that will be completed—each one essential, each one fulfilled exactly as foretold.
This prophecy is the key to understanding not just history, but the very heart of God's plan for salvation. It confirms that the Messiah’s coming was not random—it was foretold to the exact year. It affirms that His mission would not be political or military but spiritual. And most importantly, it reveals that God’s plan was always about restoration—not just of a city, but of the entire human race.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The 10 kings were to reign contemporaneously. 3 of them were to be plucked up before, or in front of, and by doing so made way for complete authority over what turned out to be almost all churches in western Europe, making them Catholic.
Antiochus Epiphanes was a nobody, defeated and caused to Hightail it to safety by an angry word from a pagan Queen.
You ignored every facet of the prophecy that denied your preterist theory while exalting the only one you could turn to your advantage.
sheeplike
New Member
I just found the word Antichrist 3 times in my online Bible (there was one comment, who found 4) - but all of them are in 1 and 2 John. I think, that sometimes we, as humans, take ourselves much too important. The real war and question is not here - it's in heaven. And it is not the question of "Antichrist" (as believing Christ will save humans), but and actually a rebellion in heaven, led by Satan. How else does it come, that in Noah's days, angels had intercourse with females? How come that "war broke out in heaven and Satan and his angels fought and Michael and his angels fought" and they were thrown to earth? Imagine that one third of all angels followed Satan - so the universal question is much, much more. This is why the Bible says 1 Corinthians 4-9 speaks that we have become a spectacle for the world and heaven and revelation 12-10 says: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
So, as the bible says, we are just a spectacle. Not more. The real war and question was and is in Heaven. What we see is, "that he is in rage, as he knows that the time he has is very short". And we see he does everything to destroy and attack - not only the world, the nature, humans, false religion, leaders - but as well Christians.
So, as the bible says, we are just a spectacle. Not more. The real war and question was and is in Heaven. What we see is, "that he is in rage, as he knows that the time he has is very short". And we see he does everything to destroy and attack - not only the world, the nature, humans, false religion, leaders - but as well Christians.
Hello it was me and here are all four
1 John 2:18
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 John 2:22
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Sorry its not even a direct question more of a comment about reasons that the bible shows for why the 70 weeks were given
Yes of course only Jesus could fulfill the events of verse 24 I never disputed that and that what Jesus did is for all humanity, but my point is what Daniel shows the purpose that the 70 weeks were given for.
Yes Jesus died for all humanity but the angel Gabriel said that the vision was given for Daniels people
Or I just was just taught the history of the Maccabees and that the book of Daniel encouraged the Judas the hammer and faithful Jews to stand up and defeat apostasy.
For what it is worth....
Part 1 - from my commetary.
25a-Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem
In Daniel 9:25a, Gabriel provides a clear starting point for the prophetic countdown leading to the arrival of the Messiah. This verse establishes one of the internal, time-specific boundaries within the seventy-weeks prophecy. It states that from the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the coming of the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks (49 prophetic years) and sixty-two weeks (434 prophetic years)—a total of sixty-nine weeks (483 prophetic years).
On the first day of the seventieth week, the Messiah would arrive to begin His ministry, marked by His baptism in the Jordan River. This ministry would last for 3.5 years, culminating in His crucifixion when He is “cut off” (Daniel 9:26). Despite the clear prophecy, there has been significant debate over when this decree was issued and who issued it. Scholars and commentators have generally proposed three possibilities:
1. The Decree of Cyrus (538/537 BC) – Some argue that Cyrus, king of Persia, gave the decree referenced in Ezra 1:1–4, allowing the Jews to return and rebuild the Temple. However, this decree only pertained to the Temple, not the restoration of Jerusalem itself.
2. The Decree of Darius (419 BC) – A less common view attributes the decree to Darius I of Persia (not Darius the Mede), who reauthorized the rebuilding of the Temple. However, like Cyrus’ decree, this also focused only on the Temple rather than the city and its infrastructure.
3. The Decrees of Artaxerxes (457 BC or 444 BC) – The majority of scholars agree that Artaxerxes I, king of Persia, issued the decree that fits Gabriel’s prophecy. However, Artaxerxes issued two separate decrees, leading to further debate:
The decree in 457 BC (Ezra 7:7-8) is widely accepted as the most probable fulfillment, as it authorized not only the rebuilding of the Temple but also the reestablishment of Jerusalem’s laws and governance. This decree aligns perfectly with the seventy-weeks prophecy when counted using prophetic years (360-day years).
The decree in 444 BC (Nehemiah 2:1–17) authorized Nehemiah to rebuild the city walls, but this was a reinforcement effort rather than an initial decree for Jerusalem’s restoration.
To resolve this debate, one should start from the end and count backward rather than beginning with the proposed dates.
1. The prophecy predicts that 483 prophetic years (69 weeks) would pass before the arrival of the Messiah.
2. If we count back 483 prophetic years from Jesus' baptism (circa 27 AD), we arrive at 457 BC.
3. This perfectly aligns with Artaxerxes’ decree recorded in Ezra 7, which not only authorized the rebuilding of Jerusalem but also restored Jewish self-governance, allowing the city to function independently.
The decree of 457 BC is the only decree that fulfills both the political and religious conditions needed to mark the starting point of the seventy-weeks prophecy. It aligns precisely with Jesus’ baptism in 27 AD, confirming that God’s timeline is precise and unshakable.
Part 2.
As a result of his research, Pastor Walker identified a total of 560 literal years between the dedication of Solomon’s Temple and Artaxerxes’ decree in 457 BC. This period was composed of two distinct time elements:
1. Ten Jubilee cycles of 49 years each (490 years) – Representing the reckoned time within the Great Jubilee system.
2. The 70 years of Jewish captivity in Babylon – These unreckoned years were not counted toward the Jubilee cycle because the land was resting (as commanded in Leviticus 26:34-35).
Since God only counted years of faithful obedience within the Jubilee system, the full 560-year span was required for Him to recognize and complete the 490-year period necessary for the third Great Jubilee Sabbatical cycle. Therefore, when this third cycle reached completion, it initiated the fourth Great Jubilee cycle—beginning in 457 BC with Artaxerxes’ decree. This decree not only marked the starting point of the seventy-weeks prophecy (Daniel 9:25) but also signified a new phase in God’s redemptive timeline, setting the stage for the Messiah’s arrival.
Daniel's 70 Weeks (490 years) gives a major clue that God determines and measures the redemptive history of Israel in cycles of 70*7=490 years. In particular, it defines the last of these cycles as running from the Ezra Decree to restore Jerusalem (458/7 BC) to Messiah's sacrificial atoning Death and Resurrection (AD 33). Matthew 18:21-22 also implies there is something special about 70*7 = 490:
“Peter came and said to Him: “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him: “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to SEVENTY times SEVEN (70 x 7 = 490). From this passage, we see that 490 is the amount of FORGIVENESS. Thus, the cycle of 490 years can be seen as a Forgiveness cycle (70*7 years) as well as a Great Jubilee cycle (10*49 years).
Both concepts agree in emphasizing God’s Mercy and Grace, so that we would expect these Great Forgiveness cycles to start and end with great national ‘Jubilee’ events of forgiveness, release and restoration. We would expect the intervention of God at these times in grace and power, forgiving the past, restoring them and giving them a new start. Thus, this Great Jubilee would seal off the previous 490 years, and then open up the new cycle of 490 years.
THE HISTORY OF ISRAEL - ITS FOUR GREAT JUBILEE CYCLES
These 490-year cycles are indeed confirmed in the history of Israel. Israel had a national Jubilee every 490 years.
The outpouring of grace at these times demonstrated God’s forgiveness of the past and His blessing for the future. Thus, God has marked the very structure of time with the revelation of the Jubilee: Forgiveness and full Salvation through the Blood of the Atoning Sacrifice (Leviticus 25). God set apart 4 distinct units of 490 years, and determined these four Great Jubilee cycles to form the backbone for Israel’s history. He fulfilled His purpose through these cycles:
1. Abraham to Exodus,
2. Exodus to Dedication of Solomon’s Temple,
3. From the Dedication of Solomon’s Temple to Artaxerxes decree to restore and build Jerusalem in 457 BC,
4. And finally, the fourth and last Great Jubilee from Artaxerxes decree to the last week in Daniel’s 70 weeks of years prophecy totaling 490 years.
(New Book: Daniel’s 70 Weeks, Appendix 6: Israel’s 490 Year cycles Oxford Bible Church, Pastor Derick Walker).
An alternative approach to resolving this debated issue begins with an analysis of a second-century BC Jewish text, the Seder Olam Rabbah. According to this source, Solomon’s Temple stood for 410 years before its destruction by Nebuchadnezzar in 587/6 BC. If this is correct, then the Temple would have been dedicated around 996 BC (587/6 BC + 410 years).
For the third Great Jubilee cycle to be complete, a total of 490 years (ten Jubilee cycles of 49 years each) was required. However, if Solomon’s Temple stood for only 410 years, then at the time of its destruction by Babylon in 587/6 BC, there was a shortfall of 80 years before the 490-year period would be completed.
From 587/6 BC to Cyrus’ decree in 538/7 BC, a total of 49 years passed—a period in which the Jews were in exile and the Temple lay in ruins. These 49 years were "unreckoned" in the Jubilee count, as the land was desolate and not actively engaged in the covenantal cycle of Sabbaths and Jubilees. However, the 490-year requirement was still incomplete, with 80 more years needed to complete the third Great Jubilee cycle. After Cyrus’ decree (538/7 BC), the Jews returned to their land, but the full cycle still required 80 additional years. Exactly 80 years later, in 457 BC, Artaxerxes issued his decree, formally allowing the restoration of Jerusalem (Ezra 7:7–8). This decree marked the completion of the third Great Jubilee cycle and the official start of the fourth and final Great Jubilee Sabbatical cycle.
An additional confirmation of the 457 BC start date comes from the reading of the law by Ezra, recorded in Nehemiah 8, which took place in Tishri of 445/444 BC. This event coincides with the end of the second seven-year sabbatical cycle after the return to Jerusalem. If we count backward by two sabbatical cycles (14 years) from 445/444 BC, we arrive precisely at 457 BC—the date of Artaxerxes’ decree. This provides a historical and biblical validation that 457 BC marks the beginning of Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy (490 years), which would then conclude in 33/34 AD with the fulfillment of the Messiah’s mission.
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