The false doctrines of the Preterist and Futurist interpretation

[CTK]

I believe all or most unfulfilled prophecy at the time of the cross would not come to pass but would be replaced by new prophecy relating to the new covenant. Instead of various visions in Daniel, see Rev for updated prophecy.

Unless you can answer these questions…. God has given us His prophecies in Daniel to read, study and interpret so we can understand His plan of salvation for all mankind. These verses are not easy to interpret. I can assure you there is absolutely no consensus among our scholars, academics, intellectuals, theologians, etc. on Daniel. Almost all have treated these verses in a historical approach. When they failed to be able to identify an actor or event in our history books that would match with those thought to be in Daniel, they would declare those verses to be “end time” events or actors.

But none of these verses are end time events / actors.

Best wishes.

 

[ewq1938]

Unless you can answer these questions….

I answered them...they are no longer valid prophecies. They were end times prophecies, namely Daniel 7 which ends with a coming of God and a judgment and the burning of the ten horned beast kingdom. That's all been replaced by Rev, and it's ten horned beast which is destroyed in fire by a coming of Christ.

 

[CTK]

I answered them...they are no longer valid prophecies. They were end times prophecies, namely Daniel 7 which ends with a coming of God and a judgment and the burning of the ten horned beast kingdom. That's all been replaced by Rev, and it's ten horned beast which is destroyed in fire by a coming of Christ.

You answered them? I think we can call it a day.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Well, if one looks the prophecies are all history which is my background, and all you have to do is line them up and they fall into place, while futurism and preterism are just ways to distort what is being given and just ideas of men and really total confusion to say the least.

I agree.

 

[Davy]

I've been accused of following just about all of man's seminary created categories, Preterism, Historicism, Futurism. But never Full Preterism, nor Amillennialism. I was raised in a mainstream Preterist preaching Church, not hardly any Bible prophecy about the end covered at all. And I didn't know it's system of theology from men was Preterism, which treats end time Bible prophecy as mostly past, except for Christ's future return. At times, it is difficult to tell the difference between Preterism and Historicism. Futurism is just a joke, just as the other two also are. They are just men's attempt to categorize a set of Bible interpretations, and all of them include wrong Bible interpretations.

To actually come to the real Truth in God's Word as written, it requires NOT heeding those various system categories of men's doctrines, because they operate as tethers.

(A tether is like a rope tied to a post. It only allows the reach of how ever long the rope is. That is a metaphor for a limited Bible understanding which men's doctrines cause. Jesus used the idea that you don't put the new wine that is fermenting and needs to expand, into old wine skins that are brittle and liable to break. You put the new wine in new wine skins, so both are preserved. The old wine skins represent the traditions of men, tethers, which will not allow the learning of the "strong meat" of God's Word.)

 

[ewq1938]

Well, if one looks the prophecies are all history which is my background, and all you have to do is line them up and they fall into place, while futurism and preterism are just ways to distort what is being given and just ideas of men and really total confusion to say the least.

Yet you are a partial preterist, and a partial futurist so you are going against your own views.

 

[Hobie]

We agree the little horn is the papacy. But we don’t on the 10 horns.

The 10 horns came up out of pagan Rome BEFORE the little horn surfaced. That is because the little horn came out of the church. Look at 7:11, this is when pagan Rome was slain and within 50 years, the little horn would sit atop the [new] 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome.

Meaning, they both had to come out of pagan Rome BEFORE their demise.

The 10 toes would be referred to by God as the 10 horns AFTER the cross. But the way, the 3 horns “plucked up by its roots” represents the little horn corrupting and “plucking up” the first 3 commandments of God. The “roots” symbolize the 10 commandments given to the Jews at Mt. Sinai- thus, the little horn altered the original 10 the Jews (roots) obeyed.

Example: the 1st commandment - there shall have no other God…. And this God is the One that took you out of the land of Egypt.

However, the RCC shows their first commandment WITHOUT any reference to the Jewish people. Further, the pope has indeed claimed he is “god on earth.”

This is not speaking about some 10 nations, but the Word of God.

I believe you are interpreting the 10 as the SDA teach. Unfortunately, they too have secularized the 10.

They are kingdoms that raise up, and you can trace them all the way to what we see as the nations that make up Europe, not hard to see. And the iron and the clay not mixing, is seen as they try to reconstitute what was a united empire that was the power of Rome. Can't do it as we see some parts are weak and others strong, but won't mix together into that power, just disjointed parts which not even Napoleon or Hitler could unite...

 

[CTK]

They are kingdoms that raise up, and you can trace them all the way to what we see as the nations that make up Europe, not hard to see. And the iron and the clay not mixing, is seen as they try to reconstitute what was a united empire that was the power of Rome. Can't do it as we see some parts are weak and others strong, but won't mix together into that power, just disjointed parts which not even Napoleon or Hitler could unite...

Thanks for your response. I would like to request that you try and interpret these and most of Daniel in a non-historical manner.

God has called out these 4 and only 4 kingdoms out of the sea in chapter 2. These will be the only kingdoms He will establish in His plan of salvation where He will place His prophecies. God is not writing a history book where He is recounting the kingdoms, kings and their conflicts, nor is He interested in predicting 10 future powers or nations that will continue such human conflicts.

He is writing about His plan of restoration / salvation for the Jews in their return to Jerusalem and in a greater manner, salvation for all mankind.

Try to think how the symbols and the verses speak to the coming Messiah (His first advent) and how they refer to the Temple, the Sanctuary, the ceremonies and His 10 Commandments.

 

[Hobie]

Good posts. Are you coming from a historicists' perspective?

Yes, as the Reformers were till these ideas from the Counter-Reformation were spread..

 

[Davy]

They are kingdoms that raise up, and you can trace them all the way to what we see as the nations that make up Europe, not hard to see. And the iron and the clay not mixing, is seen as they try to reconstitute what was a united empire that was the power of Rome. Can't do it as we see some parts are weak and others strong, but won't mix together into that power, just disjointed parts which not even Napoleon or Hitler could unite...

That doctrine simply does not keep to God's written Word.

The final 5th beast of the feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay per Daniel 2 will involve the "ten horns" which represent "ten kings" per Rev.17. And Rev.17 reveals those ten kings do not come to power until the end for "one hour" with the beast (king). That means they are not even manifest yet today, and certainly not back history!

That means all of man's false Preterist and Historicist notions about a pope and Rome are all for naught, and the end time beast God's Word points to as head will be in JERUSALEM, not Rome.

The old Protestant Reformer's belief back in the 15th-16th centuries that the pope was the Antichrist did not pan out. Bible prophecy about the Antichrist at the 'end' of this world involves Jesus' coming soon afterwards to end the persecution. That didn't happen in the era of the Protestant Reformers, as we still await Lord Jesus' 2nd and only other coming.

 

[ScottA]

Quite the mess. And so it was to be...until just before the sounding of the seventh angel, and the finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets.

 

[Hobie]

I've been accused of following just about all of man's seminary created categories, Preterism, Historicism, Futurism. But never Full Preterism, nor Amillennialism. I was raised in a mainstream Preterist preaching Church, not hardly any Bible prophecy about the end covered at all. And I didn't know it's system of theology from men was Preterism, which treats end time Bible prophecy as mostly past, except for Christ's future return. At times, it is difficult to tell the difference between Preterism and Historicism. Futurism is just a joke, just as the other two also are. They are just men's attempt to categorize a set of Bible interpretations, and all of them include wrong Bible interpretations.

To actually come to the real Truth in God's Word as written, it requires NOT heeding those various system categories of men's doctrines, because they operate as tethers.

(A tether is like a rope tied to a post. It only allows the reach of how ever long the rope is. That is a metaphor for a limited Bible understanding which men's doctrines cause. Jesus used the idea that you don't put the new wine that is fermenting and needs to expand, into old wine skins that are brittle and liable to break. You put the new wine in new wine skins, so both are preserved. The old wine skins represent the traditions of men, tethers, which will not allow the learning of the "strong meat" of God's Word.)

Many churches have picked up these lies, and Christians just go along with it, rather than read Gods Word and discern, not good.

 

[Davy]

Many churches have picked up these lies, and Christians just go along with it, rather than read Gods Word and discern, not good.

And because of that, I believe what Apostle Paul said about God having put spiritual blindness upon the majority of Paul's brethren the Jews, has also happened upon many non-Jews.

Here is a shocking truth, proven by experiments done in the field of Psychology. An experiment was done back in the 1960s or '70's I think, where an electrical panel with volt meters and toggle switches were mounted in a row, with the amount of voltage increasing from left to right. The test subject was told there was a man in the back room with a wire attached to him, and the subject was to read a list of questions through the microphone to him. And when he gave the wrong answer, the test subject was to flip a switch, starting from the lowest voltage. In reality, the man in the back had no wire attached to him. And he had a tape recorder of yelled out fake screams of pain.

The first test group went through the whole test without stopping, no questions asked, flipping a voltage switch as the man in the back gave the wrong answer.

The second test group started the experiement, and then after a couple of screams stopped, and asked the experiment conductors if the man was OK. They brow beat the test subject into continuing, and these also finished the whole list of questions.

The third test group flat refused to conduct the experiment, and claimed the experimenters were immoral, so this third group got up and left.

As another experiment with the same 3 groups, a type of aptitude test was given each one. They discovered that the first group who exhibited no moral disgust had the lowest ability for abstract thinking. The 3rd test group tested highest with the ability to abstract think, and they had the highest moral sense.

What that experiment exposes is that some people simply cannot think for themselves, and must be told what to think and what to do. These are the most influenced by fads and popular notions.

Then others, like the second test group, think a bit more individually, and start to question what they hear and believe, but then after social pressures put upon them, they cave in to what the majority of the pack follows.

Then the third test group with the highest moral sense, and ability to abstract think, think as independent individuals, and could care less about fads and popular notions, but instead are interested in what is true and useful.

The scary thought then is, that a majority of peoples in the world don't think for themselves, but can be manipulated by those who know how to influence them. Picture those like Hitler, Stalin, Pol-Pot, Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, etc.