Where the unbelievers go when they physically die? (An Amillennial Prespective)

[ewq1938]

Because we, the saints need to see that God is just before He destroys the wicked in the lake of fire. The saints will reign in heaven during the thousand years and go over the books to see why their friends or family or pastor didn't make it, and Gods justice is vindicated before the whole universe.

The thousand year reign is over the nations who aren't saved and they aren't in heaven. The reign is over people who are on the Earth so naturally those ruling over them are also on Earth.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[rwb]

Ok, I have no issues with what you’re saying but you would also have to conclude that Saul was a saved person.

In 1 Samuel 28:16 Samuel tells Saul that the LORD is departed from thee. Does Saul live and reign with Christ in Revelation 20?

No Saul was not saved. Because he died without faith, he shall only live again when he is physically resurrected to be cast into the eternal lake of fire.

 

[grafted branch]

No Saul was not saved. Because he died without faith, he shall only live again when he is physically resurrected to be cast into the eternal lake of fire.

In 1 Samuel 28:19 the spirit of Samuel tells Saul tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me.

If Saul was not saved how could he be with Samuel the next day if the spirits of the unsaved dead are in silence and darkness after physical death?

 

[rwb]

Our physical bodies shall return to dust. Not our souls.

It is the spirit of every man that returns to God when our body dies. The spirit then will either have life/living soul, or in darkness and silence through unbelief. It is the spirit in man that gives them life. Without life from the spirit the body of man is in darkness and silence in the grave. The natural spirit that every human possesses gives man mortal, physical life, when the natural spirit in man possesses the SUPERNATURAL Spirit of God, that male/female has eternal spiritual life that shall NEVER die, because life from the Spirit of God is to be a "living soul" FOREVER!

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Galatians 6:8 (KJV) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Physical life makes every living, breathing creature on the earth a mortal, corruptible living soul until they no longer possess the breath of life or spirit. Spiritual life from the Spirit of God in man is to be a living soul in heaven without physical form. The living soul in heaven after physical death is spirit, spiritually called the body of Christ.

 

[rwb]

In 1 Samuel 28:19 the spirit of Samuel tells Saul tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me.

If Saul was not saved how could he be with Samuel the next day if the spirits of the unsaved dead are in silence and darkness after physical death?

As I've already said, it is the physical body of Saul and his sons that shall be in graves, just as the mortal body of Samuel is. That is the part of all of them that shall return to the earth after death. The spirit that physically gives all earthly creatures the breath of life (makes them alive, breathing souls) shall return to God in silence and darkness for all who die without faith.

 

[grafted branch]

As I've already said, it is the physical body of Saul and his sons that shall be in graves, just as the mortal body of Samuel is. That is the part of all of them that shall return to the earth after death. The spirit that physically gives all earthly creatures the breath of life (makes them alive, breathing souls) shall return to God in silence and darkness for all who die without faith.

Ok, so if I have it correct, your view is that the spirit of both the saved and unsaved all go to heaven upon physical death.
How about a verse such as Matthew 11:23?

Matthew 11:23(NIV) And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

From this verse Capernaum does not go to heaven but goes down to Hades. How are you interpreting this verse?

 

[rwb]

Ok, so if I have it correct, your view is that the spirit of both the saved and unsaved all go to heaven upon physical death.
How about a verse such as Matthew 11:23?

Matthew 11:23(NIV) And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

From this verse Capernaum does not go to heaven but goes down to Hades. How are you interpreting this verse?

As Scripture tells us the spirit of every human being, whether dying in faith or unbelief, returns to God who gave it while every mortal body of flesh returns to the earth.

Matthew 11:23 (KJV) And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

This verse is not a question as the NIV translation makes it. It is a statement of fact. Capernaum had been exalted to heaven while physically alive on the earth. They had received from the Lord great privilege being a favored and prosperous city of great commerce and wealth, but most of all Capernaum had been favored by the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ, preaching, and showing Himself to be the Son of God through miracles witnessed in Capernaum while Christ spent much time there while He was on the earth.

In this physical sense Capernaum and every other city and nation that lived to see the work of Christ with their own eyes should have believed on Christ. Instead, they rejected Him in life, therefore in death when the spirit returns to God it shall not be in exaltation, but in darkness and silence. That's what it means to be "brought down to hell" for rejecting the mighty works of Christ which had been done in thee. OTOH the city of Sodom, also in unbelief, never witnessed the works of Christ on earth, but Christ says if they had known what Capernaum had known they would not perish, suggesting they would have repented of their evil deeds. Through faith they could have been spiritually exalted in heaven belonging to the spiritual body of Christ there, as "living souls." That's why in the day of judgment, the eternal punishment for the land of Sodom shall be more tolerable for those who died without having physical knowledge of Christ, then the punishment shall be for all who have known and witnessed Christ in physical life and choose to reject the Son of God anyway.

Matthew 11:24 (KJV) But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

 

[grafted branch]

As Scripture tells us the spirit of every human being, whether dying in faith or unbelief, returns to God who gave it while every mortal body of flesh returns to the earth.

Matthew 11:23 (KJV) And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

This verse is not a question as the NIV translation makes it. It is a statement of fact. Capernaum had been exalted to heaven while physically alive on the earth. They had received from the Lord great privilege being a favored and prosperous city of great commerce and wealth, but most of all Capernaum had been favored by the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ, preaching, and showing Himself to be the Son of God through miracles witnessed in Capernaum while Christ spent much time there while He was on the earth.

In this physical sense Capernaum and every other city and nation that lived to see the work of Christ with their own eyes should have believed on Christ. Instead, they rejected Him in life, therefore in death when the spirit returns to God it shall not be in exaltation, but in darkness and silence. That's what it means to be "brought down to hell" for rejecting the mighty works of Christ which had been done in thee. OTOH the city of Sodom, also in unbelief, never witnessed the works of Christ on earth, but Christ says if they had known what Capernaum had known they would not perish, suggesting they would have repented of their evil deeds. Through faith they could have been spiritually exalted in heaven belonging to the spiritual body of Christ there, as "living souls." That's why in the day of judgment, the eternal punishment for the land of Sodom shall be more tolerable for those who died without having physical knowledge of Christ, then the punishment shall be for all who have known and witnessed Christ in physical life and choose to reject the Son of God anyway.

Matthew 11:24 (KJV) But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

How about taking a look at this … I did a search for “dwell in heaven” and here are some verses to consider …

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing isGod, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.



The word “dwell” in Revelation is <4637> which often has the connotation of residing temporarily, as one would in a tent. If your view is correct then Revelation 12:12 appears to be a command for the spirits of unbelievers in heaven to rejoice. Also those same unbelieving spirits are being blasphemed by the beast in Revelation 13:6.

In 2 Corinthians 5 both believers and unbelievers have an “earthly house of this tabernacle” and since both will be going to heaven when they die, both will clothed with a house from heaven. Verse 3 says they shall not be found naked, as in a future judgment. This doesn’t seem to be correct if both believers and unbelievers go to heaven when they die.

 

[rwb]

The word “dwell” in Revelation is <4637> which often has the connotation of residing temporarily, as one would in a tent. If your view is correct then Revelation 12:12 appears to be a command for the spirits of unbelievers in heaven to rejoice. Also those same unbelieving spirits are being blasphemed by the beast in Revelation 13:6.

In 2 Corinthians 5 both believers and unbelievers have an “earthly house of this tabernacle” and since both will be going to heaven when they die, both will clothed with a house from heaven. Verse 3 says they shall not be found naked, as in a future judgment. This doesn’t seem to be correct if both believers and unbelievers go to heaven when they die.

Spirits of unbelievers in heaven have no conscience awareness they are in darkness and silence in unbelief! Heaven above the heavens is the habitation of God who is Spirit with His angels and whosoever has been born from above/again. Believers dwell in heaven through the Spirit of Christ in our natural spirit from the moment we are born again. That is when we enter (spiritually) the Kingdom of God. Through the Spirit of Christ the spirit within can never die, that's why when the spirit in man returns to God after physical death we are the body of Christ there through His life-giving Spirit in us as "living souls"!

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.