What is the battle of Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8?

[ewq1938]

You are merely assuming God must have divorced Judah also. The scriptures do not tell us that.

It does tell us that:

Zechariah 10:6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.


Judah was "cast off" by God.


cast ...off
2186

02186 zanach {zaw-nakh'}

a primitive root meaning to push aside; TWOT - 564; v

AV - cast...off 17, cast away 1, turn...away 1, removed...far off; 20

1) to cast off, reject, spurn
1a) (Qal) to reject
1b) (Hiphil) to forcefully reject someone
2) to stink, emit stench, become odious
2a) (Hiphil) stink (perfect)



This "casting off" is the same reference of divorcing as in "putting away" a wife found in Jeremiah 3:8. Judah and Israel were "cast off" just as Israel had been "put away", both are terms for divorce.

 

[ewq1938]

Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70. Also the entire chapter of Ezekiel 16 is devoted to describing Jerusalem as the prostitute.

There are further clues that make the identity of the harlot obvious. For example, in Revelation it says the harlot is drunk on the blood of the saints, and in in Luke Jesus says Jerusalem is responsible for the blood of the prophets. They're obviously both talking about Jerusalem, because there can not be two separate cities responsible for the blood of the prophets.

Revelation 18:24
In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Luke 11:50-51
Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.

Speaking to the leaders of Israel, Jesus said this judgment would take place against the current generation, and in the book of Revelation, John said it was regarding events that "must soon take place". The parallel is obvious.

You are avoiding this fact: In Rev Babylon is destroyed but Jerusalem is not. That alone proves they are separate things.

 

[Truthnightmare]

It does tell us that:

Zechariah 10:6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.


Judah was "cast off" by God.


cast ...off
2186

02186 zanach {zaw-nakh'}

a primitive root meaning to push aside; TWOT - 564; v

AV - cast...off 17, cast away 1, turn...away 1, removed...far off; 20

1) to cast off, reject, spurn
1a) (Qal) to reject
1b) (Hiphil) to forcefully reject someone
2) to stink, emit stench, become odious
2a) (Hiphil) stink (perfect)



This "casting off" is the same reference of divorcing as in "putting away" a wife found in Jeremiah 3:8. Judah and Israel were "cast off" just as Israel had been "put away", both are terms for divorce.

That’s rather irrelevant, it doesn’t matter if cast of and put away are similar. Neither of the phrases mean divorce.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Two things are happening here…

1) put her away and……,
2) given her a bill of divorce.

So yes God cast Judah off, but he didn’t divorce her.

Not to mention Jeremiah 3:8 is past tense.
If we go down to Jeremiah 3:14

14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

This is present tense, so who is God speaking to here?

And you gave no regard to Romans 11
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Why is Paul saying God didn’t cast of his people?, and Paul is a Jew (house of Judah) He’s literally telling you he has not been cast off.

Your belief concerning this makes Paul a liar.

 

[ewq1938]

That’s rather irrelevant, it doesn’t matter if cast of and put away are similar. Neither of the phrases mean divorce.

They do mean divorce.

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Two things are happening here…

1) put her away and……,
2) given her a bill of divorce.

So yes God cast Judah off, but he didn’t divorce her.

There is no literal marriage. The casting away is the same as the symbolic/non-literal bill of divorce. It doesn't and didn't actually exist. There is no literal bill of anything.

Not to mention Jeremiah 3:8 is past tense.
If we go down to Jeremiah 3:14

14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

This is present tense, so who is God speaking to here?

He hadn't divorced Judah yet in that verse but he would in the future.

And you gave no regard to Romans 11
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Why is Paul saying God didn’t cast of his people?, and Paul is a Jew (house of Judah) He’s literally telling you he has not been cast off.

Your belief concerning this makes Paul a liar.

No, it only shows you are misunderstanding Paul. Paul taught that all unbelievers in Israel were cast off as removed branches. Your belief concerning this makes Paul a liar. God did not cast away those who had faith like Paul but he did cast away the rest.

 

[Truthnightmare]

They do mean divorce.




Tyere is no literal marriage. The casting away is the same as the symbolic/non-literal bill of divorce. It doesn't and didn't actually exist. There is no literal bill of anything.




He hadn't divorced Judah yet in that verse but he would in the future.



No, it only shows you are misunderstanding Paul. Paul taught that all unbelievers in Israel were cast off as removed branches. Your belief concerning this makes Paul a liar. God did not cast away those who had faith like Paul but he did cast away the rest.

Paul is a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin. Paul is of the house of Judah.. Are you now saying God casted (divorced) some of Judah… That’s not what you originally said.

You have yet to show when God divorced Judah, you just keep saying some time in the future.

I understand fully what Paul is saying…

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul didn’t say God divorced some and not others… You inserted that,

. cast away his people? the word some isn’t in the text!

You turned it into…
“God did not cast away those who had faith like Paul but he did cast away the rest.”

 

[Earburner]

It should be apparent that the book of Revelation is directly from God the Father (Rev. 1:1), being a collection of visions in series, given to John, in which he did not sit down and write it all in one evening.

Not only that, but church-inanity ("the wisdom of men") has it stuck in their head, that everything must be understood chronologically and verbatim, by way of their linear thinking. However, God does not think like men, nor are His ways like that of men. Isa. 55:8-9.

The reference to Gog and Magog is nothing more than the simplied view of Armageddon. Rev. 16:16.
Luke 17:28-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10; 2 Peter 3:10-12.

Satan, the "strong man", was permanently cast out of heaven to the surface of the earth, in the day of Jesus' death and resurrection. Since then, we all have been in the figurative one thousand years, being that of the Age of God's Grace through Jesus, whereby there is NO set limit of time, until God Himself ends it. That day will be known by the Saints as being the time period of when the "mark of the beast" is presented to all the world. Once each in all the world will have met the dealine for application by those for or against, then shall it be decreed that all who have refused "the mark" "should be killed". Hence the "encompassing of the CAMP* of the saints" by the beast, throughout the whole world.
We ARE that beloved city of God's people.

* Note: every person who is a born again Christian, alive and remaining, is a "camp" unto the Lord's indwelling.
Rev. 20
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:
and FIRE came DOWN [Jesus Himself] from God out of heaven, and devoured them. See also 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

In reference to the 42 months, that time shall begin in the day when the mark of the beast is applied, it will be the literal separation of the sheep from the goats.

 

[Truthnightmare]

.

.

I have a brief moment… Consider this ewq, what If I was to say God could not divorce Judah because of the promises he made to Abraham and David?

It would take much time to line up everything concerning the aforementioned, but with the premise, God couldn’t divorce Judah, consider the following.

The spiritual promises, the promise of the "one seed," Christ, and of salvation through him, the Bible calls "the sceptre." This promise as nearly everybody knows, was handed down through the good, true Israelite Jews, pure blood sons of Judah, not Kenite Jews. Jesus Christ was of the tribe of Judah, and the House of David "Salvation," Jesus said, "is of the Jews" (John 4:22). "To the Jew first," explained Paul, "and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16).
When God made David "King of Israel" He said in Psalms 89:3-4 & 28-37, and Jeremiah 33:17, not only was that throne established forever, it was to exist continuously, forever, through all generations! "I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, thy seed [his dynasty] will I establish forever, and build up thy throne to all generations." (Psalms 89:3-4). That throne was to stand "forever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven" (verses 28-37). "For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel" (Jeremiah 33:17.)God said, "David's throne was established to last forever."But, as far as historically known King David's grandson King Zedekiah appears to have been the last king to sit on David's throne. So far as is historically known, the last king of David's dynasty to sit upon that throne was King Zedekiah of Judah, with the Jews a captive people, with all his sons, and many nobles of Judah killed. There is no historical record of any continuance of that throne from that year.Does this mean the Word of God is not completely 100% True?
God Forbid!"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, thy seed [his dynasty] will I establish forever,
and build up thy throne to all generations." (Psalms 89:3-4).Has the Sceptre departed from Judah? Has the throne ceased?How can Jesus Christ, when he returns again to earth, take over and sit upon a throne that long ago ceased to exist? Or does it still exist today, as God so bindingly promised, so that Christ can take over and sit upon a living, going, continuous throne when he comes? The infallibility of the Bible is at stake,
God's word is at stake!
B UT,Here is a astonishing fact,
that few have ever seen or noticed!
We will explore this seeming false promise starting today. We will show you where David's throne continues to this very day!

The Birthright and the Sceptre
Let us now look at a bit of Bible truth known to but very few.

Note it carefully.

The spiritual promises, the promise of the "one seed," Christ,
and of salvation through him, the Bible calls "the sceptre."
This promise as nearly everybody knows, was handed down through the Jews.
Jesus Christ was of the tribe of Judah, and the House of David
"Salvation," Jesus said, "is of the Jews" (John 4:22).
"To the Jew first," explained Paul,
"and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16).

This fact is confirmed in Genesis 49:10. "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah."
End Quote

The Davidic Covenant
If David's throne ever ceased to exist,
then God's promise has failed!

We have space to quote but briefly from the Scriptures setting forth this amazing Davidic Covenant.
Like the covenant with Abraham,
God made the Davidic Covenant unconditional and unbreakable.
David wanted to build a great Temple, as God's house in Jerusalem.
The Almighty replied, when thy days be fulfilled,
and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers,
I will setup thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels,
and I will establish his kingdom" (II Samuel 7:12).
This, of course, was his son Solomon, who succeeded David to the throne.
'He," God continued, "shall build an house for my name,
"and it was Solomon who did build the Temple
and I wilt establish the throne of his kingdom for ever (verse 13).

Notice it! The throne of David, occupied by Solomon,
was to be established forever!
If that throne ever ceased to exist,
then God's promise has failed!
But some say the promise was conditioned upon the obedience of Solomon
and the future line of kings or their people.

Notice the Scriptural answer to this:
"I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men,
and with the stripes of the children of men but (yes,notice this but)
my mercy shall not depart from him as I took it from Saul,
whom I put away before thee" (verses 14-15). Saul's dynasty ceased. God
promises He will never take away this throne from David's line in this manner.
David's dynasty shall never cease!
2cd end Quote

The implications of what you are saying ewq carry a heavy spiritual toll. Jesus was not born through a whore.. He was born through Judah, more precisely the faithful remnant. So although Judah was whore, God did not divorce her because of covenants and the purity of Lord Christ.

Merry Christmas bro, TTYL

 

[ewq1938]

.

I have a brief moment… Consider this ewq, what If I was to say God could not divorce Judah because of the promises he made to Abraham and David?

That is unaffected by God's divorcing his two wives.

It would take much time to line up everything concerning the aforementioned, but with the premise, God couldn’t divorce Judah, consider the following.

The spiritual promises, the promise of the "one seed," Christ, and of salvation through him, the Bible calls "the sceptre." This promise as nearly everybody knows, was handed down through the good, true Israelite Jews, pure blood sons of Judah, not Kenite Jews.

There is no such thing/people. That is the result of racist serpent seed doctrine, made popular in the last couple decades by some churches, namely the Shepherd's chapel. The only "kenites" in the bible have nothing to with who they teach the kenites are today. They think Kenite comes from the name of Cain (it does not), the one they think is the literal son by satan and Eve. This is false doctrine.

How can Jesus Christ, when he returns again to earth, take over and sit upon a throne that long ago ceased to exist?

There is no literal throne passed down like that. He will rule the world and all kingdoms at the 7th trump. What he sits on is of no concern.

Merry Christmas bro, TTYL

You too!

 

[ewq1938]

In reference to the 42 months, that time shall begin in the day when the mark of the beast is applied, it will be the literal separation of the sheep from the goats.

Wrong. The MOB is not the first thing that takes place according to Rev 13. The image is ordered to be created, then it is given life and speaks and then is worshiped. There's many other things written there that happen first as well. Only after that is the MOB introduced. The 42 months started before that and possibly before the false prophet even rises to public awareness.

 

[Earburner]

Wrong. The MOB is not the first thing that takes place according to Rev 13. The image is ordered to be created, then it is given life and speaks and then is worshiped. There's many other things written there that happen first as well. Only after that is the MOB introduced. The 42 months started before that and possibly before the false prophet even rises to public awareness.

The image has already been created, it's called the UN.
The beast, with its NEW Global Digital Economy (CBDCs), and Digital IDs, is going step out from behind the UN, the beast's legislator and enforcer.

 

[Truthnightmare]

That is unaffected by God's divorcing his two wives.




There is no such thing/people. That is the result of racist serpent seed doctrine, made popular in the last couple decades by some churches, namely the Shepherd's chapel. The only "kenites" in the bible have nothing to with who they teach the kenites are today. They think Kenite comes from the name of Cain (it does not), the one they think is the literal son by satan and Eve. This is false doctrine.




There is no literal throne passed down like that. He will rule the world and all kingdoms at the 7th trump. What he sits on is of no concern.






You too!

Well does the serpent have a seed?

Here’s is what God says to the Serpent…

15 And I will put enmity between theeand the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

We can clearly see the Serpent has a seed. Now the question becomes is this a spiritual seed, or a literal one.

 

[ewq1938]

Well does the serpent have a seed?

Here’s is what God says to the Serpent…

15 And I will put enmity between theeand the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

We can clearly see the Serpent has a seed. Now the question becomes is this a spiritual seed, or a literal one.

Obviously the entire concept of his seed VS Eve's seed proves Eve did not bare satan's seed.

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;


We know Jesus did not have literal children that make up all good people. It's a spiritual concept so we likewise know that Satan's seed, the tares, are also spiritual.

 

[ewq1938]

The image has already been created, it's called the UN.
The beast, with its NEW Global Digital Economy (CBDCs), and Digital IDs, is going step out from behind the UN, the beast's legislator and enforcer.

The two beasts and the image do not exist yet. Rev 13 is very detailed on what they do and none of that is happening yet.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Obviously the entire concept of his seed VS Eve's seed proves Eve did not bare satan's seed.

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;


We know Jesus did not have literal children that make up all good people. It's a spiritual concept so we likewise know that Satan's seed, the tares, are also spiritual.

I will not jump forward without determining prior evidences… Does the serpent have a seed.. Yes or No?

 

[Earburner]

The two beasts and the image do not exist yet. Rev 13 is very detailed on what they do and none of that is happening yet.

Most of the churches that are looking for their boy wonder, magic man, they all call THE Antichrist, is going to be a "no show".

By the time many will have figured it out, they will have already taken the MoB, and then go into denial about it, saying it is not.


Most are not willing to lose all that they own, including family, by standing alone, having only faith in Jesus. Mat. 20:37-38; Luke 27:32.
Through His 40 days in the wilderness, Jesus foreshadowed the hour of "temptation", that is going to try the whole world (Rev. 3:10. 2 Thes. 2:11).

Through His fasting for 40 days, when Satan came and tempted Jesus to turn the stones into bread (food), Jesus denied satan's temptation, and stood alone through faith in His Father. Satan then left Him, and the angels ministered unto Him.

 

[Traveler]

You all may want to take a second look at the history that the old testament reveals.

King Solomon may have been the wisest man going but he was not the most obedient. Under the law the Israelites were not to marry outside their own nation. But king solomon had a thousand wives and concubines, most of them not being Jewish. When he died he left a huge bloated harem the made up the royal household. The king that took over power from him was the son of an Amirite which in essence ment that the nation of Isreal had been concord by the Amorites.

1Ki 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
1Ki 11:2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
1Ki 11:3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
1Ki 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
1Ki 11:5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
1Ki 11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.

Because of this God divided the nation and made a separation between the house of Juda and the house of Isreal with the ten tribes of Israel making their capital in Simeria. This was to prevent the subversion from spreading so as to protect the ten tribes.

Ki 11:29 And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two were alone in the field:
1Ki 11:30 And Ahijah caught the new garment that was on him, and rent it in twelve pieces:
1Ki 11:31 And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
1Ki 11:32 (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:)
1Ki 11:33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.

1Ki 14:21 And Rehoboam the son of Solomon reigned in Judah. Rehoboam was forty and one years old when he began to reign, and he reigned seventeen years in Jerusalem, the city which the LORD did choose out of all the tribes of Israel, to put his name there. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess.

Everything just went from bad to worse and it ended up with God bringing about the Babylonian captivity so as to get the heathen in the royal house of Israel out of the nation. With all that foreign influence in the nations leadership it was little wonder that the nation abandoned God and followed after all the demigods of the nations around them. You will notice that when Israel did return from the babylonian captivity they made very sure that there were to no longer be any non Jews in their societies.

Neh 10:28 And the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the porters, the singers, the Nethinims, and all they that had separated themselves from the people of the lands unto the law of God, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one having knowledge, and having understanding;
Neh 10:29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;
Neh 10:30 And that we would not give our daughters unto the people of the land, nor take their daughters for our sons:

 

[ewq1938]

Most of the churches that are looking for their boy wonder, magic man, they all call THE Antichrist, is going to be a "no show".

Trivialization is a logical fallacy and shows the baseless argument against the AC. All false doctrines teach against the AC in some way. It only benefits the AC for people to teach he won't be coming.

 

[ewq1938]

I will not jump forward without determining prior evidences… Does the serpent have a seed.. Yes or No?

No, not a literal seed. I have already shown that Christ spoke of himself and the Devil as planting seed in the field and if Christ's example was non-literal then so is the Devil's.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Gog and Magog are the rebellious, deceived enemies of God. Even after the 1,000 year, peaceable reign of Christ, some will not love righteousness. They will attempt to disrupt society. Satan will use Gog and Magog as his earthly physical representatives to once again deceive mankind – as he did in the very beginning with mother Eve. If we knew ahead of time exactly who it will be, it wouldn’t be much of a deception. Since Revelation is a book of symbols, we do not know the specifics of this final conflict.

Rebellious enemies yes. Gog and Magog are principalities, demon generals of Satan - if you will, sent out to the four corners of the world.
Satan, throughout time and currently, has demons in charge of certain areas of the world
More prevalent and obvious are areas where evil reigns like Russia (and former Soviet Union - which were Gog and Magog's territories), China, India, various African countries, etc.

 

[ewq1938]

Rebellious enemies yes. Gog and Magog are principalities, demon generals of Satan - if you will, sent out to the four corners of the world.

Any demons of satan would have been locked in the pit with him so that would make the 4 corners of the world (Gog and Magog) just human beings. satan himself goes to these people to deceive them and form an army.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.