Gog and Magog and The Flaming Fire

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Earburner

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I am correct that your doctrine contradicts what Paul taught. He did not teach that there would be multiple mass resurrections of believers in the future as you believe.
I never said that. I think you assumed that I said that by how I wrote it.
When Jesus does appear from heaven in that day, there will be more that were asleep in Jesus coming with Him, than the living on the earth who must be "changed"
1 Thes. 4
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Also, Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords right now.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Revelation 17:14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
Yes, of course I agree with that 100%.
Because He is the King of kings ever since His Ascension into heaven, he will return in that office.
Edit:
Therefore, in that Day of His Glorious return, He will no longer be in the office of "sin bearer". This truthful understanding is taught by the Holy Spirit, and as a result this makes the doctrine of Premillennialism to be of "the wisdom [doctrine] of men".

Since there will be NO "sin bearer" during the supposed future 1000 literal years of Christ reigning on this old earth, what would be the point of mortal men to continue living their mortal lives of approx. 15 to 16 generations WITHOUT a Savior??
Such a cantakerous view, is NOT OF the God that we serve.
1 Cor. 2:5, 13.
 
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Earburner

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That's what we all think, but if we have any beliefs all to ourselves, that should raise a red flag. Do you believe that God reveals some truth only to you?
I believe that God does make all of his truth available to all believers, it's just that not all are ready to recieve it, in the stage/level of their spiritual growth. What I say is not a lie, it's simply not being recieved by others at this time.
When did I say otherwise? I didn't. Are you sure you're reading what I'm saying? I said absolutely nothing that would suggest that I didn't believe Jesus has the ability to be visible or invisible at will. I referenced Him appearing out of nowhere in a locked house, which you alluded to here. You're telling me this as if I didn't already reference that myself. Please be more careful to read what I actually say.
When I share thoughts and scripture with you or any other one, I never forget the audience. In that regard, I will make myself clear, whether you or another does not.
Again, I have said absolutely nothing to suggest that I'm not aware of what Jesus was able to do after His resurrection and nothing to suggest that He had limitations at that point.
Just as I already said myself as well. You are wasting your time telling me something I already said myself.
I don't wish to presume or assume anything of what others believe or don't believe. Therefore, if I find the discussion is getting foggy about "likes and dislikes", I will be on point for the topic at hand, so as to be clear.
Don't lump me in with others. Don't make assumptions about what I believe. I will tell you what I believe.
Again, in how and what I write, I do think of the audience in the background.

In my mind, there are no others to lump you with. I seek to be clear, so that I don't make assumptions.
I don't know for sure what you even mean with your question, but 1 John 3:2 says we will see Him as He is when He comes and we will be like Him, which I assume means we too will be able to be visible or invisible at will just as He has been since His resurrection.
Exactly!
I truly don't know what your point is here. Do you not believe we will have an actual eternal dwelling place once He comes again? What is your understanding of what thiengs will be like at that point? No new heavens and new earth to dwell in?
For you to believe that we are the mansions being placed in His Father's House, who is Christ Himself, should spur you on, as well as others, to research why I say that.

Please see KJV John 14:23 for the word "abode", and then compare that to Luke 14:2, for the word "mansion". In that comparison, you will discover that both words in the Greek is "mone", pronounced monee.
In all of the New Testament, that Greek word is not found anywhere else.

Now for the revelation of it all. Please know that the two verses above are completely compatible in saying the same exact thing.

Quite literally, Jesus Himself is His Father's House, His permanent abode, and we ARE the mansions that are being placed within that House.

There is no other place in all of God's creation where He prefers to permanently dwell, than to be within us. However, for that He could not do, except by dwelling/abiding in His Son's Eternal and Immortal body FIRST.

Jesus, who was made to the Lamb of God, shedding his innocent blood for the removal of sin and our salvation, was also indirectly the Lamb of God for God the Father also. Otherwise, the Father would NEVER be able to permanently dwell within us at all. Through faith, the removal of sin within each of us, has a dual purpose.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I never said that. I think you assumed that I said that by how I wrote it.
I didn't say that you did. I was talking to Keraz there, not you. Look again at that post (#139) and you can see that.

Earburner said:
Yes, of course I agree with that 100%.
I know you do. Again, I was talking to Keraz, not you.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I believe that God does make all of his truth available to all believers, it's just that not all are ready to recieve it, in the stage/level of their spiritual growth. What I say is not a lie, it's simply not being recieved by others at this time.
So, in other words, it's your belief that you are the only one in the world who believes correctly on some things. Do you know how that comes across?

For you to believe that we are the mansions being placed in His Father's House, who is Christ Himself, should spur you on, as well as others, to research why I say that.

Please see KJV John 14:23 for the word "abode", and then compare that to Luke 14:2, for the word "mansion". In that comparison, you will discover that both words in the Greek is "mone", pronounced monee.
In all of the New Testament, that Greek word is not found anywhere else.

Now for the revelation of it all. Please know that the two verses above are completely compatible in saying the same exact thing.

Quite literally, Jesus Himself is His Father's House, His permanent abode, and we ARE the mansions that are being placed within that House.

There is no other place in all of God's creation where He prefers to permanently dwell, than to be within us. However, for that He could not do, except by dwelling/abiding in His Son's Eternal and Immortal body FIRST.

Jesus, who was made to the Lamb of God, shedding his innocent blood for the removal of sin and our salvation, was also indirectly the Lamb of God for God the Father also. Otherwise, the Father would NEVER be able to permanently dwell within us at all. Through faith, the removal of sin within each of us, has a dual purpose.
Why didn't you answer my question? I'm asking you where you believe we will dwell for eternity after Christ's glorious second coming? Do you not believe that He will renew the earth and remove all wickedness from it, making it a place where righteousness dwells (2 Peter 3:13)?
 

Earburner

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So, in other words, it's your belief that you are the only one in the world who believes correctly on some things. Do you know how that comes across?
I have no such belief, that I am the only one.
I never said that I say that, nor do I think of it as you imply.
Why didn't you answer my question? I'm asking you where you believe we will dwell for eternity after Christ's glorious second coming?
I have and do continue to answer your question!
1 Thes. 4
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise [from sleep in paradise] first: [verse 14].
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be [changed and] caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Do you not believe that He will renew the earth and remove all wickedness from it, making it a place where righteousness dwells (2 Peter 3:13)?
The words are "where-IN dwelleth righteousness", which is God's righteousness.
Other than His righteousness, I don't have any righteousness of my own, that is equal to or above His.
2 Peter 3
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2 Cor. 4
[6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in [through] the face of Jesus Christ.
[7] But we have this treasure [of God Himself] IN [our] EARTHEN vessels, that the excellency of the power [of His righteousness] may be of God, and not of us.

Q. Where does the Godhead seek to make their "ABODE"?
A. In "MANSIONS", who are being placed in His Father's House, who is Jesus.
Please see Isa. 55:8-9.
 
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Earburner

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A-BOD-EE
(Haha A BODY!)

Break that word up

MAN-SIONS:p
That's an Excellent analogy with those words!!
Awesome and truthful, isn't it? Amen!!

Jesus,
who came from Eternity, being One in Holy Spirit with the Father, WHO Himself "is a Spirit", was made to be flesh in that of our likeness, but without sin.
Heb. 10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Rom. 8
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

From my post #142:

For you to believe that we are the mansions being placed in His Father's House, who is Christ Himself, should spur you on, as well as others, to research why I say that.

Please see KJV John 14:23 for the word "abode", and then compare that to Luke 14:2, for the word "mansion". In that comparison, you will discover that both words in the Greek is "mone", pronounced monee.
In all of the New Testament, that Greek word is not found anywhere else.

Now for the revelation of it all. Please know that the two verses above are completely compatible in saying the same exact thing.

Quite literally, Jesus Himself is His Father's House, His permanent abode, and we ARE the mansions that are being placed within that House.

There is no other place in all of God's creation where He prefers to permanently dwell, than to be within us. However, for that He could not do, except by dwelling/abiding in His Son's Eternal and Immortal body FIRST.

Jesus, who was made to be "the Lamb of God", shedding his innocent blood for the removal of sin and our salvation, was indirectly the Lamb of God FOR God the Father also. Otherwise, the Father would NEVER be able to permanently dwell within any of us at all.
Through faith in Jesus, the removal of sin within each of us, has a dual purpose.
 
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Verily

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Awesome and truthful, isn't it? Amen!!
Jesus, who came from Eternity, being One in Holy Spirit with the Father, WHO Himself "is a Spirit", was made to be flesh in that of our likeness, but without sin.
Heb. 10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Rom. 8
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

From my post #142:
For you to believe that we are the mansions being placed in His Father's House, who is Christ Himself, should spur you on, as well as others, to research why I say that.

Please see KJV John 14:23 for the word "abode", and then compare that to Luke 14:2, for the word "mansion". In that comparison, you will discover that both words in the Greek is "mone", pronounced monee.
In all of the New Testament, that Greek word is not found anywhere else.

Now for the revelation of it all. Please know that the two verses above are completely compatible in saying the same exact thing.

Quite literally, Jesus Himself is His Father's House, His permanent abode, and we ARE the mansions that are being placed within that House.

There is no other place in all of God's creation where He prefers to permanently dwell, than to be within us. However, for that He could not do, except by dwelling/abiding in His Son's Eternal and Immortal body FIRST.

Jesus, who was made to the Lamb of God, shedding his innocent blood for the removal of sin and our salvation, was also indirectly the Lamb of God for God the Father also. Otherwise, the Father would NEVER be able to permanently dwell within us at all. Through faith, the removal of sin within each of us, has a dual purpose.

Heres a couple

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one
 
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Earburner

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Heres a couple

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one
Amen! You are understanding it all perfectly!!
 

Earburner

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God the Father HAD to permanently dwell with-IN the Immortal body of Jesus FIRST, before HE could ever permanently dwell within us (by us having faith in Jesus).

As a result, we can truly know HOW it was that the mystery of Jesus Christ was kept secret (Rom. 16:25-27), being HIDDEN in God, until the moment of Jesus being born of mortal flesh through the Virgin Mary.

Eph. 3
[9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been HID IN God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[10] To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
[11] According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord [for us and Himself]:
1 Cor. 2
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[8] Which NONE of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
> And that, would've been a TERRIBLE LOSS FOR US, as well as for THE Godhead!! "Without the shedding of [Christ's] blood, there is [would be] NO REMISSION [removal of sins at all]". Heb. 9:22.

So now, for every "born again Christian", the Apostle Paul says in Col. 3:3,
[3] For ye are  DEAD, and your LIFE IS HID WITH Christ .....IN God.
1 Col. 3:1-4

John 5
[39] Search the [OT.] scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

By the mind of Christ within you, let Jesus be your PRIMARY FOCUS of WHY you read the OT. scriptures, concerning "the Promise that was to come",.... WHO DID COME,...and SHALL COME AGAIN, in all His Immortal Glory, HAVING the Father WITHIN Him.
 
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ewq1938

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Jesus, who was made to be "the Lamb of God", shedding his innocent blood for the removal of sin and our salvation, was indirectly the Lamb of God FOR God the Father also.

So God the Father needed the blood of the sacrificial Lamb also?
 

Earburner

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So God the Father needed the blood of the sacrificial Lamb also?
Rom. 16
[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Cor. 2
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[8] Which NONE of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
>
So then, if Jesus was NOT crucified, the shedding of His innocent blood would have never occurred for the removal of our sins, and for that, God the Father would NEVER have had the opportunity to DWELL and LIVE within us permanently and forever.
The entirety of His plan for our salvation, being His ability and desire
to LIVE WITHIN US, through Jesus, would have been LOST forever.
No one OF US would have been given His GIFT of Eternal Life!! 1 John 5:11-13.

2 Cor. 4

[7] But [now] we HAVE this treasure [of God Himself] in EARTHEN vessels [our mortal bodies], that the excellency of the [anointing] power [of His Righteousness] may be of God, and not of us.

So YES!! In that regard, the shedding of Christ's innocent blood was a necessary Atonement FOR US, so that God the Father could permanently dwell within us THROUGH HIS SON.
 
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Earburner

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Sounds like blasphemy.
Let me finish my understanding that you purposely exlcuded:
"So YES!! In that regard, the shedding of Christ's innocent blood was a necessary Atonement FOR US, so that God the Father could permanently dwell within us THROUGH HIS SON."
Just because you don't understand why God the Father Himself required the sacrifice of His Son for Himself also, as I do, that doesn't justify you to be calling it blasphemy.
What is your understanding of the Trinity? Or do you reject it?
Since belief in a Religious Trinitarian view is not a criteria for our salvation, are you asking that question to berate me?
Or are you asking so as to truly know??
Knowing you so far, I believe you are of the latter, therefore I will take the risk to give my understanding.

I understand and agree to the concept of the Trinity, but unfortunately, "Trinitarians" blindly understand only their religious doctrinal view of the Trinity as being: "God in three Persons".
Since that is true, we must ask who ARE the three "persons" that make up the Trinity?


Since there is "another comforter", it is evident that there was a first comforter, before Jesus was forsaken by His Father while on the cross, bearing the sins of the world. Mat. 27:46

I do not reject the religious doctrine of the Trinity. I just see it differently than most.
I don't see that it's necessary to make up an "add on God" to the Godhead of Two, when God the Father is now again forever within God the Son, AFTER Jesus' resurrection. They are again together as ONE, and as a result they TWO together ARE the Holy Spirit.
John 14
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE [two] will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

That indwelling of THEM, being together as ONE, IS THEIR HOLY SPIRIT within us.
Through faith in the shed blood of Christ, and for our asking (Luke 11:13; Rev. 3:20) for their indwelling of us, we each are MADE to be holy, thus causing US ALL who are of faith, to be that which IS THREE, aka the body of Christ.

If all would read and digest the following, Jesus makes it all very clear.

John 17
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be  ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as WE are one:
[23] I in them, and THOU IN ME, that they may be made perfect in ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
[24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be WITH me WHERE I am; that they [who are the saved] may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

1 John 5:6-8 Textus Receptus Greek
[6]
This is he who came
[1.] by water and
[2.] blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood. It is
[3.] the Spirit [of God the Father] WHO TESTIFIES.
[TRG John 14:10- Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who LIVES in me does his works.]

[7] For there are three that testify:
[8] [1.] the Spirit [of God the Father],
[2.]
the water, and
[3.] the blood; and the three agree as one.

KJV John 19
[34] But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out [innocent] blood and water.
KJV 1 John 4
[2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
[3] And every spirit that confesseth NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh
is NOT of God
: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
 
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ewq1938

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Since belief in a Religious Trinitarian view is not a criteria for our salvation, are you asking that question to berate me?

Usually Trinity deniers will come up with other non-biblical doctrines such as your belief that the Father also needed the blood of the sacrificial Lamb. I asked because I couldn't remember your stance on the Trinity.

I don't believe your belief regarding the Father needing the Lambs sacrifice is scriptural.
 

Earburner

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Usually Trinity deniers will come up with other non-biblical doctrines such as your belief that the Father also needed the blood of the sacrificial Lamb. I asked because I couldn't remember your stance on the Trinity.

I don't believe your belief regarding the Father needing the Lambs sacrifice is scriptural.
So then, by the mind of Christ within you, you are not understanding the simplicity of my post #153?

1 Cor. 2[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[8] Which NONE of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they WOULD NOT HAVE crucified the Lord of glory.

IF the innocent blood of the Lamb OF God WAS NOT SHED
, the sin of the world WOULD NOT have been removed, no...not in any one single person, no matter how much faith they might have!!!
God the Father, who IS HOLY, CAN NOT and WILL NOT permanently dwell within anyone who is not made to be holy by the blood of the Lamb, of which coud only be achieved by the shedding of Christ's innocent blood.

Edit: as you can see, I am being very much biblical, by using the mind of Christ and not that of the wisdom of men and THEIR doctrines. 1 Cor. 2:5.

Therefore, any and ALL who DO NOT put their faith in the sacrificial Lamb of God's "Lamb OF God",
and His SHED Blood, they CANNOT HAVE the Eternal Abiding presence of The God head, who is God the Father dwelling within Christ.

You can see that here in Rom. 8:8-9.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh [only] cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God [the Father #1 of 2] dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ [Himself #2 of 2], he is none of his.
#1 + #2 = ONE together, as ONE!!

Do you need more scripture??
Ok, see this:
1 John 5
[10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness [of God the Father] in himself: he that believeth not God [the Father] hath made him [God the Father] a liar; because he believeth not the record [testified testimony] that God [the Father] gave of [about] his Son.

[11] And this is the record [testified testimony], that God [the Father] hath [Himself] given to us eternal life, and this life is [now] in his Son [who is God the Father Himself].

SO THEN, when and what is the "testified testimony" that God the Father Himself GAVE about His Son?
Mat. 3
[16] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God [the Father] descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
[17] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
 
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Earburner

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Not that any of the illustration below is destructive to our salvation, or is it blasphemous towards God, but rather it provides three representations of HOW we each may personally perceive of how it is that GOD according to scripture, dwells within US, who are "born again" of His Holy Spirit.

Symbol and Color key:
GTF- God the Father, The Holy Spirit.
GtS- God the Son, both man and Holy Spirit.
GtC- God the Comforter.


In the following figurative equations, which equation is the actual representation of
John 14:23, John 17:20-24; 2 Cor. 4:7?
Please take your time, and by all means, reference the suggested scriptures.
1-GTF + 1-GtS + 1-GtC in us = God is One
1-GTF + 1-GtS = 1-GtC in us = God is One
(1-GTF in 1-GtS) = 1-GtC in us = God is One
 

Earburner

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None of these scriptures support the weird doctrine of the Father also needing the blood of the sacrificial Lamb. The Lamb was for us, not God.
Weird doctrine??
The problem is, you can't understand what 1 Cor. 2:8 is saying!
[8] Which NONE of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they WOULD NOT HAVE crucified the Lord of glory.
Are you being blinded?

You have totally missed the foundational point of how the shed blood of Christ SANCTIFIES the believer.
EVERY person, who is UNsanctified, is not allowed or able to recieve the Holy Spirit of God!!

Edit: the point is: IF "the Princes of this world" ALLOWED Jesus to remain alive, until his NATURAL death, he would not have SHED his innocent blood for the forgiveness of sins, and their removal.
Heb. 9:22.


JESUS WOULD HAVE DIED WITHOUT the SHEDDING of his innocent blood. In other words, Jesus would NOT have died as the Lamb of God, and therefore we would STILL BE in our sins, AND GOD THE FATHER, who is HOLY, would NOT be able to permanently dwell within us....EVER!!
 
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ewq1938

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Weird doctrine??
The problem is, you can't understand what 1 Cor. 2:8 is saying!
[8] Which NONE of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they WOULD NOT HAVE crucified the Lord of glory.
Are you being blinded?

You have totally missed the foundational point of how the shed blood of Christ SANCTIFIES the believer.
EVERY person, who is UNsanctified, is not allowed or able to recieve the Holy Spirit of God!!

None of these scriptures support the weird doctrine of the Father also needing the blood of the sacrificial Lamb. The Lamb was for us, not God.