Gog and Magog and The Flaming Fire

[Earburner]

None of these scriptures support the weird doctrine of the Father also needing the blood of the sacrificial Lamb. The Lamb was for us, not God.

I understand that the Lamb of God was directly for us, but you are not understanding that without the shedding of Christ's blood, God the Father directly could NEVER DWELL within us, if Jesus died without shedding his blood.

By the shedding of the blood of Christ for our sins, please tell us all how it is that you by your faith in Christ's shed blood, you became sanctified before God the Father, whereby He has Given you His Holy Spirit.

Or In other words, without your faith in the shed blood of Christ being applied to you, for the forgiveness and removal of your sins, how is it that God's Holy Spirit was Given to you, if you don't believe or understand that FIRST you MUST BE sanctified BY the blood of the Lamb of God?

Now, if it were so that Christ was  NOT crucified, whereby the shedding of His innocent blood did not take place, and Jesus was ALLOWED by men to live out his life unto his own NATURAL death (1 Cor. 2:8), his innocent blood would have NOT been shed for the forgiveness of sins.
Therefore, if that were the case that 1 Cor. 2:8 had taken place, the sins of the world would NOT have been taken away [removed] in YOU or anyone of us for OUR SANCTIFICATION, before God the Father.

Without the shedding of Christ's innocent blood, for the forgiveness of sins, GOD The HOLY Father can not and will not dwell within anyone of us who are not sanctified by the shed blood of Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

I understand that the Lamb of God was directly for us, but you are not understanding that without the shedding of Christ's blood, God the Father directly could NEVER DWELL within us, if Jesus died without shedding his blood.

And that is totally false. The OT disproves all that:

Luk_11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Sometimes we forget Jesus said this under the old covenant which is the OT....pre-cross! Pre-new covenant! People could ask for the Holy Spirit! Certainly people had the Holy Spirit before the cross.



Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Num 11:24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
Num 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

Barnes:

I will take of the spirit which is upon thee - Render rather separate from the spirit, etc.; i. e. they shall have their portion in the same divine gift which thou hast.




Isa_63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

Eze_3:24 Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.


Num_27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

 

[Earburner]

And that is totally false. The OT disproves all that:

Luk_11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Sometimes we forget Jesus said this under the old covenant which is the OT....pre-cross! Pre-new covenant! People could ask for the Holy Spirit! Certainly people had the Holy Spirit before the cross.



Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Num 11:24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
Num 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

Barnes:

I will take of the spirit which is upon thee - Render rather separate from the spirit, etc.; i. e. they shall have their portion in the same divine gift which thou hast.




Isa_63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

Eze_3:24 Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.


Num_27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

You and I continue on this crazy circle of your denial, all because you are not hearing what I am saying (post 159).
God the Father cannot PERMANENTLY dwell with in anyone UNTIL AFTER the SHEDDING of Christ's blood.

 

[ewq1938]

You and I continue on this crazy circle of your denial, all because you are not hearing what I am saying (post 159).
God the Father cannot PERMANENTLY dwell with in anyone UNTIL AFTER the SHEDDING of Christ's blood.

You are claiming that. The bible doesn't. When someone says God "cannot" something, don't listen to them.

 

[Earburner]

You are claiming that. The bible doesn't. When someone says God "cannot" something, don't listen to them.

Yes, the Holy Spirit of God did visit upon those of Israel, who lived "under the altar" of the OC. But because none if them could have their sins removed, and ONLY forgiven, the Holy Spirit of God the Father could  NEVER permanently dwell within them during that time, UNTIL AFTER the shedding of Christ's blood.
This was "the Promise that was to come" that all of OC. Israel who while living, WERE WAITING FOR His first coming, as "the Lamb of God, who taketh away [REMOVES] the sin of the world".

There is a difference between the remission [forgiveness] of sins and the taking away [removal] of ALL sins through faith in Jesus alone.

The remission of sins is the act of God to forgive the sins of a person.
The taking away of sins is the act of God to REMOVE ALL sin from a person.

To be baptized in the name of Jesus (by His Holy Spirit), is to be FORGIVEN of all sins, as well as the REMOVAL OF ALL SIN.

Acts.2[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift [sealing] of the Holy Ghost.
It is BY Jesus' blood that we HAVE the remission of sins, but it is by the  PERMANENT Gift of His Holy Spirit of God within us, that we HAVE the continual  REMOVAL of all sins, through the shed blood of Jesus, who is now our High Priest.
Rom.3
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation [the atoning sacrifice] through faith in his blood, to declare HIS righteousness  FOR the remission of sins that are past [the removal of sins for ALL time], through the forbearance [patience and longsuffering] of God;
Heb.10
[4] For it is NOT possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away [REMOVE] sins.
[11] And every [temple] priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same [animal] sacrifices, which can NEVER take away [REMOVE] sins:

THIS is why all those of OC. Israel, who looked for "the Promise that was to come", had their names written in a "Book of Remembrance". Malachi 3:16
Though they had died in faith, they had NOT YET recieved the PERMANENT indwelling GIFT of the Holy Spirit of God BECAUSE the Holy Spirit of God was NOT YET GIVEN:
John 7:38-39
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost WAS NOT YET GIVEN;
because that Jesus was not yet glorified.[resurrected].)
Rom. 8
[25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities [S-G769]: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit [of Christ], because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Heb. 4
[15] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities [S-G769]; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, the Holy Spirit of God did visit upon those of Israel, who lived "under the altar" of the OC. But because none if them could have their sins removed, and ONLY forgiven,

Same thing. Sins were removed/forgiven in the OT, it was just a harder and longer process than we have now...thank God!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Same thing. Sins were removed/forgiven in the OT, it was just a harder and longer process than we have now...thank God!

No sins were permanently removed/forgiven in the OT. You are acting as if salvation and the permanent forgiveness and removal of sins was possible without the shed blood of Christ. That is absolutely false.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Animal sacrifices did not permanently remove sins. Only Christ's sacrifice does that.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

This verse includes OT saints. Without Christ's shed blood their sins would not be forgiven and removed and they would not be saved.

 

[Earburner]

Same thing. Sins were removed/forgiven in the OT, it was just a harder and longer process than we have now...thank God!

Nope!! As I have clearly shown through scripture, NO ONE who lived their life "under the altar" of the OC. ever had their sins removed, UNTIL after the shedding of Christ's innocent blood.

However, the best that God the Father could do for them, who did by faith look for "the Promise that was to come", was to have their names written in a "book of remembrance". Malachi 3:16.

For ALL whose names that WERE written in that book of Remembrance, God DID NOT forget them. In fact much of the NT speaks about them, even in the book of Revelation.
We see them in Rev. 6:9-11, and we even know of them being the symbolic 144,000 of the 12 tribes of OC. Israel.

Yes, I should say that you have much to forget, concerning church-ianity's indoctrination, and then to re-learn what the Holy Spirit of God TEACHES.

As I usually suggest to all, for them to read and study ALL of 1 Cor. ch. 2, I make no mistake about directing you to 1 Cor. 2:5, so that you may know where your faith should NOT stand.

 

[ewq1938]

Nope!! As I have clearly shown through scripture, NO ONE who lived their life "under the altar" of the OC. ever had their sins removed, UNTIL after the shedding of Christ's innocent blood.

No, that is false.

Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

A sin offering, an atonement and forgiveness equals sin fully removed.

Yes, I should say that you have much to forget, concerning church-ianity's indoctrination, and then to re-learn what the Holy Spirit of God TEACHES.

You teach as much or more of church-ianity than any church I have ever been to.

 

[Earburner]

No, that is false.

Lev_4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.

Lev. 4:20 < Sins forgiven? Yes.
Sins removed? Absolutely not!

You are saying that "under altar" of the OC., Israelites were made to be perfect in God's eyes, by the blood of animals, and therefore they had no need of the shed blood of Christ.

If that be the case, how did those whom God "remembered" ever recieve the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit (white robes), the GIFT of Eternal Life, when His Holy Spirit WAS NOT YET permanently GIVEN to anyone, UNTIL AFTER Jesus' resurrection?? John 7:39.

Please pay attention to Rom. 8:8-9, it is speaking to all people, both the OC. and the NC. "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is NONE OF HIS.
For those who are shown "under the altar" in Rev. 6:9-11, who are they that recieved the Holy Spirit of God [white robes] AFTER they had been physically dead?

A sin offering, an atonement and forgiveness equals sin fully removed.

Q. Why do you blatantly deny NT scripture?
A. You are being decieved by the doctrines of men, aka church-ianity.
Heb.10
[4] For it is NOT possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away [REMOVE] sins.
[11] And every [temple] priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same [animal] sacrifices, which can NEVER take away [REMOVE] sins:

Those of OC. Israel, who had DIED in faith of "the Promise that WAS TO COME", did not and had not YET recieved the promise of the Gift of Eternal Life, of which is ONLY administered/given to us through the permanent indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, by having faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor. 4:7; 1 John 5:11-13.
1 John 5
[12] He that hath the Son hath [Eternal] life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not [Eternal] life.

God DID NOT FORGET those of whom he "remembered", of whom had died in faith "under the altar" of the OC.
"White robes" were GIVEN to each one, which IS THE GIFT of God's Holy Spirit, the very vehicle of Eternal Life.
Rev. 6:9-11; 1 John 5:11-13.

You teach as much or more of church-ianity than any church I have ever been to.

By the mind of Christ within you (hopefully), please read and study all of 1 Cor. ch. 2, and then you will know where your faith SHOULD STAND, and where it should NOT.

 

[ewq1938]

Lev. 4:20 < Sins forgiven? Yes.
Sins removed? Absolutely not!

Wrong. forgiven means to remove sins. Sins were atoned for and forgiven in the OT, and the same done in the NT.

Q. Why do you blatantly deny NT scripture?
A. You are being decieved by the doctrines of men, aka church-ianity.
Heb.10
[4] For it is NOT possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away [REMOVE] sins.
[11] And every [temple] priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same [animal] sacrifices, which can NEVER take away [REMOVE] sins:

You don't know what you are talking about because you don't understand scripture. This was written in the NT, not the OT. After Christ, animal sacrifices were no longer valid for sin atonement and forgiveness.

You are being deceived by the doctrines of men, aka church-ianity.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wrong. forgiven means to remove sins. Sins were atoned for and forgiven in the OT, and the same done in the NT.

Are you kidding me? Why did Jesus have to come if sins were atoned for and forgiven in the OT the same as in the NT? You don't even realize that you're basically saying that Jesus's sacrifice was unnecessary, which is blasphemy.