POSTRIB RAPTURE. A BIBLE ONLY VIEW
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We do desperately need one postrib rapture adherent to post a verse!
C'mon guys.
This is YOUR BIBLE THREAD!!!!
A Biblical proof of a postrib rapture
Huh...no verses?????
Made up man made mess.
Time for a decent burial
C'mon guys.
This is YOUR BIBLE THREAD!!!!
A Biblical proof of a postrib rapture
Huh...no verses?????
Made up man made mess.
Time for a decent burial
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
THE RAPTURE…
IS: elevating those body’s IN Christ…UP Above the Face of the Earth, IN the Air, TO the Clouds….and their Glorified Body being reunited with their Living saved soul, AND their Quickened born again spirit…
IS: elevating those body’s IN Christ….STILL bodily ALIVE, but accounted BODILY DEAD, having crucified their Body With Christ, with their BODY becoming MADE Glorified, their Saved soul in their glorified body, their Quickened spirit in their glorified body, UP from the face of the EARTH, IN the Air, TO the Clouds…
CAN that ^ be called Risen UP to Heaven?
YES…”IF” you Learned what HEAVEN means…
Heaven and EARTH has a separation barrier called a Firmament…
which such Firmament itself is called Heaven…
Which Heaven is also called the HEAVEN(S), plural…with specific purposes…
The Lower Heavens…ie the Clouds.
The Mid Heavens…ie Visible Stars.
The High (3rd) Heaven…ie Beyond mans sight.
* The HEAVEN ABOVE the Heavens..Gods ESTATE, where NO MAN can go.
* The WHOLE of the Heavens is Gods THRONE.
Even when Moses climbed up the mountain to receive the 10 Commandments….Moses was standing ON Earth…YET IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN UP IN THE MOUNTAINS…or LOOKED UP At Mountains…the Clouds surround the mountains…
God CALLED where Moses STOOD…Holy Ground….
When Noah was SAVED from the FLOOD…Noah Prepared, According to the Order and Way of God…Noah & his family entered the Ark…SEVEN DAYS LATER….the Rain came…the Fountains of the deep (underground oceans ) gushed forth upon the Earth…..
AND….Noah and his family were risen UP…ABOVE the mountain TOPS…
Ya think…Noah ABOVE the face of the Earth…was IN the CLOUDS?
WHY? Because the Earth (dry land), was being Destroyed (all wet)….and Noah WAS NOT appointed to suffer that Flood…
WHY? Because Noah…PREPARED…according to Gods ORDER and WAY.
WHEN any man…Chooses and follows through to BECOME MADE “PREPARED”….
By, through, of (Gods Order and Way)….
* confess heartful belief in the Lord God…
* willingly lay down his bodily life (crucified)…
** THAT …PREPARED individual…IS Prepared for the UNKNOWN DAY….the Lord God will ONCE AGAIN CAUSE tribulations upon this Earth.
** And AS IN THE DAY OF NOAH…such men “IN” Christ SHALL BE RISEN UP….above the face of the Earth…….
WHY?
** BECAUSE….they are NOT appointed to suffer the judgements upon the Earth and it’s inhabitants….JUST AS NOAH WAS NOT appointed to suffer the judgement, during the First Great Tribulations sent Down from Heaven.
Not a mystery….It has been uncovered and revealed IN Scripture.
Great…but learn and consider the BIG Picture, so YOU Know why you are only presenting on a Fraction of the whole TRUTH.
Learn what HEAVEN encompasses…
Hint…thinner air…clouds…
Even … men mountain climbers, Jets, Rockets enter Heaven’s space…ding, ding…they are assisted for air to breath..
We DO NOT go to MID Heavens…that which is the Habitat of Gods created spirit angels….we can observe At night, by seeing stars…
Nor do human mens body’s go to UPPER heaven, (3rd heaven), where Gods THRONE is, Where saved departed souls, and departed spirits of saints go and Worship God…where the Tree of Life currently IS….prepared to be returned to a renewed Earth…
The BLINDED were the Bulk of the tribes of Israel….to GIVE PAUSE….to allow the Gentiles opportunity to ENTER into being WITH God, and He WITH them…
The BLINDED thereafter are….the Gentile men….who adamantly reject God…
EACH…(so Blinded) Israel or Gentiles SHALL have their LAST minute opportunity DURING tribulations sent from Heaven…to repent, and confess…or remain blinded and Excluded From being WITH the Lord God FOREVER.
False…Those “IN” Christ and Christ “IN” them…have Gods Word within them, and access to His Understanding of His Word.
Great…you have a Brain…a wishy washy Carnal Mind that can CHANGE thoughts, ideas, beliefs as often as the wind blows….
WHICH such living man can NOT BE ACCOUNTED having a QUICKENED Spirit…UNTIL that man IS “IN” Christ.
Do not climb mountains…do not fly in a jet….You might experience a TASTE of Heaven you can not Believe.
There is a HUGE difference of Consequences between….TASTING and EATING…
God provides human men multifaceted opportunities to TASTE (ie to EXPERIENCE) Spiritual things….BEFORE a man COMMITS…to EATING any of Gods Offerings.
RAPTURE…applies to A man, having been MADE WHOLE “IN” Christ…”They” all having membership IN Christ Church.
^^ (That does NOT apply to ALL human men)
Glory to God,
Taken
Pretribbers for sure cant because what they argue contradicts numerous passages. Not to mention, since no one can put on bodily immortality until at the last trump, and that the rapture involves the snatching up of people still bodily alive, how then can Pretrib reasonably explain how someone can still be in the exact same body they left the earth in when they allegedly arrive in heaven? Flesh and blood bodies dwelling in heaven, yea right. They can't be different bodies since no one gets a different body until the last trump sounds first. That alone easily debunks Pretrib, therefore, post trib has to be the correct position since post trib would be involving the last trump, Pretrib wouldn't. To insist Pretrib is Biblical is to believe in nonsense not something rational instead. Nothing rational about leaving this planet bodily and then entering heaven in the exact same flesh and blood mortal body they left the earth in. Pretribbers don't care if something isn't rational, Pretrib is still Biblical, regardless. Yea right.
And here is something else that can't support Pretrib but does support post trib.
1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
This verse doesn't say this---afterward they that are Christ's at His comings, as in more than one coming, a coming before tribulation, a coming after tribulation. If Pretribbers apply this to a Pretrib rapture why then are Pretribbers arguing there are left behind people being saved after the rapture? And if some of them are still alive when the coming 1 Corinthians 15:23 is meaning, how can that coming include them if Pretrib has this coming already having taken place prior to tribulation rather than after?
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David in NJ
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i did not know that using Biblical logic(every word of God) was allowed on here.........
jeffweeder
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Lets take the first passage I quoted.....,
Thats why the coming of Noah's day Is Just like the Son coming in his day.
God completely dealt with the ungodly In Noah's day, saving only those elected to board the ark of salvation.
What occurs in the day of the Son of Man coming saves only the elect, who get on board with the Gospel.
The complete and utter devastation of Noah's day is surpassed by the coming of the Lord a second time.
How can that be possible you may ask?
The heavens, along with the earth pass away as Jesus said they would, leaving the elect of Jesus day to inherit all what God intended at the foundation of the world...just like Jesus said we would. Matt 25
That is what Peter looked for if your honest....,
2Pet 3
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be [in the meantime] in holy behavior [that is, in a pattern of daily life that sets you apart as a believer] and in godliness [displaying profound reverence toward our awesome God], 12 [while you earnestly] look for and await the coming of the day of God. For on this day the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the [material] elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But in accordance with His promise we expectantly await new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
14 So, beloved, since you are looking forward to these things, be diligent and make every effort to be found by Him [at His return] spotless and blameless, in peace [that is, inwardly calm with a sense of spiritual well-being and confidence, having lived a life of obedience to Him].
I seriously do not know what else I can say to you if you are looking for these things as they did.
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1) if you are honest, Noah and Lot are both gathered pretrib.
NOTHING WHATSOEVER was done for earths population in BOTH examples by Jesus. ( kinda like the pretrib rapture doctrine?)
2) Rev 14. ( vivid "days shortened for the elect")
The elect are gathered DURING THE TRIB.
So the days of the trib are shortened.
Your model has no such dynamic.
ALL rapture verses are peacetime, commerce , and normal life.
Your model changes that to no commerce, chaos, and running from cave to cave with the AC chasing them with a portable guillotine.
Your theory is completely impossible.
What do you do with the verses that say, "every man woman and child take the mark not written in the Book of Life."
It says "ALL TAKE THE MARK"
What do you do with that?
What do you do with the innumerable number before the throne at the start of the tribulation?
They are all Martyrs .
Millions if not billions of Martyrs in heaven during the tribulation period.
what do you do with the "one taken one left" dynamic?
What in the world do you do with that?
it in no way fits your theory.
About the best you can come up with is that half are wicked and half are not taken... and that is what Jesus is picturing "Before the Flood". So before the flood half the world's population is taken according to your theory? (Or at least it is the basic position of those with your theory).
The ENTIRE WEIGHT of scripture is against your theory.
It simply is swallowed up in verses that you refuse to put on the table.
Keraz
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Yes; 1 Thess 4:16-17 does say that the Lords faithful people will be raised up to the clouds, but your assumption that this means to heaven, is wrong because Jesus has just departed from heaven and is Returning to the earth, as Revelation 19:11-16 describes.
He sends His angels to gather His faithful people, Matthew 24:30-31
What Paul Prophesies here, is a transportation, the same as what happened to Philip; Acts 8:39
Nowhere is heaven mentioned, you just falsely add that idea to scripture. Proved by there being no change to a Spiritual state for anyone then.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Not an assumption, but rather an UNDERSTANDING.
Disagree with your presumption and conclusion…
BECAUSE HEAVEN is NOT “singular”!
Heaven / HeavenS are mentioned nearly 150 times in the OT and NT.
You SHOULD read, study, learn…WHAT and WHERE the HEAVENS ARE…Before you attempt to DICTATE Gods Spiritual Understanding of WHAT and WHERE the HeavenS ARE; and WHO goes where, how and when and why.
“A” human individual manKIND of being, WHO willingly, heartfully, SUBMITS TO a one on one, Once and Permanent Relationship with the Lord God…
according TO: Gods Order, Way and Offering….
“IS” MADE and KEPT by Gods POWER;
In an ONCE and FOREVER established Relationship WITH the Lord God.
AND SUCH a Relationship…IS So Established BEFORE that manKIND of being succumbs to Physical Bodily Death.
The HeavenS are likened to A Curtain, A covering for some humans TO NOT SEE, and the Curtain Drawn Back…FOR “some” humans body’s, humans souls, humans spirits TO SEE, and TO ENTER IN….according TO Gods….ORDER and WAY.
Gods ORDER and WAY….is He First Loves, Calls, Chooses, manKIND…and the man WHO by his own Freewill reciprocates….in Kind the SAME unto the Lord God…
* BECOMES “MADE” privy to have access, to Gods particular HeavenS at particular times.
Gods HEAVENS ARE “ABOVE” the Earth…
HOW FAR “Above” ?
On a roof top?
On a mountain top?
In the clouds?
Does Scripture EVER direct men to GO to a roof top? A mountain top? The Clouds?
The Answer IS Yes…and IF you spiritually Understood what the HeavenS Are, you should Thus understand the significance of God Directing men to go to … a roof top, mountain top, the clouds….WHEN and WHY.
AND…by reading, studying, learning ABOUT the HEAVENS you should DISCOVER your narrow mindedness is not in agreement with Gods Spiritual Understanding.
And you MIGHT even DISCOVER…Gods ABODE/ estate, is ”THE” HEAVEN, ABOVE the HEAVENS, which ONLY HE that came forth from THERE RETURNED to THERE.
Glory to God,
Taken
Keraz
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Thats because there is no Post- Trib rapture to heaven.
There isn't any verses for a Pre-Trib rapture to heaven, either.
What there is in many Prophesies, is how we Christians will go to and live in all of the holy Land, soon after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26.......we will be called the children of the Living God, in the very same place as where ancient Israel was exiled from.
Hello,
This is how I perceive the paraphrasing of Ezekiel 34:11-16 should read: -
11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them into their own fertile field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel, {a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis}, {where they are living} in the {river} valleys and in all the inhabited places of the earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
The Hebrew word that is translated as "land" in verse 13 has a Hebrew Root H:0127 which has the meaning of "soil".
In Genesis 12:1-3 God prophetically said this: -
Genesis 12:1-3: - 12:1 Now the Lord had said to Abram:
Please note that for Israel to be a blessing to all the peoples of the earth, they must remain scattered throughout all the peoples of the earth and that they too must inhabit God's fertile soil to show all of the people how they should live in God's Grace.
The return of Israel to the Land of Canaan is an attempt on Israel's part to get God's attention, but they returned to the Land of Israel in their own strength and God played no part in that return. Israel in returning had not sort God and in fact they had turned further away from God to worship the idols that they had gathered around themselves.
Israel has to humble themselves and repent of their sin of idolatrous worship before God will begin gathering them to Himself where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth. This is God's plans for Israel to become a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among all of the nations.
Israel cannot be a blessing to all of the nations unless they are rubbing shoulders with the nations of the earth and showing them the way to enter into a meaningful relationship with God.
Sadly many "Churches" are walking down this pathway of becoming isolated from the world around them and as such they have no use to God's plan for the Salvation of the people of the earth who are willing to live rooted in His fertile field.
Shalom
This is how I perceive the paraphrasing of Ezekiel 34:11-16 should read: -
11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them into their own fertile field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel, {a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis}, {where they are living} in the {river} valleys and in all the inhabited places of the earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
The Hebrew word that is translated as "land" in verse 13 has a Hebrew Root H:0127 which has the meaning of "soil".
In Genesis 12:1-3 God prophetically said this: -
Genesis 12:1-3: - 12:1 Now the Lord had said to Abram:
"Walk away from your country,
{Walk away} From your family
And {Walk away} from your father's house,
To {walk in} an earth that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And through you all the families inhabiting my fertile soil shall be blessed."
Please note that for Israel to be a blessing to all the peoples of the earth, they must remain scattered throughout all the peoples of the earth and that they too must inhabit God's fertile soil to show all of the people how they should live in God's Grace.
The return of Israel to the Land of Canaan is an attempt on Israel's part to get God's attention, but they returned to the Land of Israel in their own strength and God played no part in that return. Israel in returning had not sort God and in fact they had turned further away from God to worship the idols that they had gathered around themselves.
Israel has to humble themselves and repent of their sin of idolatrous worship before God will begin gathering them to Himself where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth. This is God's plans for Israel to become a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among all of the nations.
Israel cannot be a blessing to all of the nations unless they are rubbing shoulders with the nations of the earth and showing them the way to enter into a meaningful relationship with God.
Sadly many "Churches" are walking down this pathway of becoming isolated from the world around them and as such they have no use to God's plan for the Salvation of the people of the earth who are willing to live rooted in His fertile field.
Shalom
Postrib rapture doctrine has verses.
" those pretribbers and Tim LaHaye is wrong"
That is one verse.
" those pretribbers and Tim LaHaye is wrong"
That is one verse.
Oh, wait, here is another;
"Ancient dead church fathers taught us postrib rapture is correct"
So yes....that is another verse
"Ancient dead church fathers taught us postrib rapture is correct"
So yes....that is another verse
Keraz
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The Jewish State of Israel is not the Israel of God. They face Judgment and punishment and only a remnant will survive.
Then the true Israelites; the faithful Christian peoples will occupy all of the holy land. Psalms 37:29
There will be no rapture to heaven for anyone; except the two Witnesses.
Nothing in the Bible says that God intends to do that for His people. We must endure until the end.
Your attitude leaves much to be desired and is a poor example of forum etiquette.
As usual, your inability to understand the context of what is written is showing.
What this passage, Ps 37:27-29 is telling us is this: -
27 Turn away from evil and do good,
so that you will abide forever.
28 For the LORD loves justice
and will not forsake His saints.
They are preserved forever,
but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off.
29 The righteous will inherit the whole earth
and dwell in it forever.
This is in line with what Daniel tells us in Daniel 7:27 where it states: -27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
Your understanding is limited in that the Saints will only inherit the Promised Land which was initially described as a sign covenant such that when Israel Had dominion over the listed lands that they would be given, in the future, the whole Earth. Shortly after the death of Solomon, the "Promised Land" was taken from the nation of Israel and they were only left with the Land of Canaan, which they finally lost in 70 AD.
In the Abrahamic Covenant, God told Abraham to "Walk in the earth that He would show him and his descendants.
God's earth is for the Saints to be in a Spiritual state in line with His Statutes and "Laws."
Shalom
Keraz
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Like most things, Gods Promises are fulfilled in stages -
1/ As we are now, enjoying prosperity in our civilized countries.
2/ After the Lords Day of wrath, we form a new nation in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5
3/ After Jesus Returns, we rule and reign with Him over the world.
4/ After the Millennium, those whose names are found in the Book of Life, will live with God in the New Jerusalem on the renewed earth.
A false claim about "civilized countries being prosperous. Our prosperity is being rapidly consumed at the moment.
Another one of your misquoting scriptures to have it say what you want. The heading in the NKJV for Isa 62 is Assurance of Zion's Salvation
The passage Isaiah 62:1-5 has no reference to God's earthly hosts forming a new nation in the "holy land" as you claim.
I have been looking for the verses that tells us that this will be so. Please back up your claims with scripture.
After the Millennium we are told that Satan and his cohorts will be released from the Bottomless pit for a little while period to cause many saints to fall away before the time of the final judgement occurs. After that those who are judged righteous will live with God in the renewed Jerusalem and the renewed earth.
Oh well, I am happy for you to form you own fantasy in the way you understand the scriptures.
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