The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture
- Thread starter Jericho
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i am OVERJOYED watching people get SAVED in Revelation
That is why i gave you a LOVE emoji on your post #1707 & #1715
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Then you should be able to engage the scriptures with a pre trib believer. And. You. Wont.
You'll say anything else. Quote any old scripture so that you have the appearance of knowing something, but you wont eplain it or engagae the scriptures with a pre trib. Typical.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Let me get this straight. You can't support your viewpoint with scripture nor can you discuss or address the topic with pretribbers so you seek to attack the messenger and to use the bible as a weapon aginst me with some of the dont be deceived scriptures and all that.
What would your professor think? You have failed the class son. None of your answers to anything to do with the topic makes any scholarly sense whatsoever in any way. You just wont admit it.
You want to trade scriptures, lol? ! Ok Here's one for you.
Romans 5:3-4
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:.../KJV
That is in the Tribulations of life. Normal everyday difficulties. Thise is not talking about nor does it say that we will go through Great Tribulation.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Right now, you and @Biblepaige are liars when you falsely accuse.
This is why pre-trib is a salvic issue = bearing false witness is lying, lying against God's words
“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
14Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
You are calling me a Lir.
For telling the Brothers & Sisters to watch for Jesus Now!
So the post tribbers are too busy to watch for the Lord now because you're doing your Tribulation prepping? Buying Guns and food are we?
In the best Pre Trib voice that I can muster, I tell you...A better prep is to be one with the Lord and hiding in His secret place with them already and what you need for what you will go through will be provided.
So attack the messenger! You poor soul..
And an accompanying word salad of Scriptures which is supposed to prove your position somehow? Wow it was scriptures so you must be right? What you dont realize is that, that wont really apply to the church who is raptured.
See? true to form every time. You have said nothing of any value and have a very fragile facade of unknown teachings that you spout.
Call me some more names. I bet it might make my reward grow bigger, lol. Call me a liar again. I dont care. I have peace in my spirit.
(The rapture could still be TODAY! It's coudy out! I dont see Him yet though.)
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
HE is not "concept vs concept"
He is offended at the thought that The church is raptured pretrib.
That is the discussion.
Pretrib rapture verses,vs, those offended at us.
Their position is centered in emotions .
Not verses.
That is the reason for the name calling and such.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
His goal is to suck you into a banter of personal attacking back and forth.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I always said they argue like women do, lol. And like Democrats do.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
"Orange man bad"
Huh, what did he do that was bad?
" I just know he is bad."
"Pretrib rapture bad"
Huh, why?
" I dunno it just is"
Lol
I don't understand then why you took issue with my earlier posts that said the same thing you later gave love Emojis to.
There is a rapture before the great tribulation. And during the great tribulation people left behind to endure that can be saved.
Why would anyone argue against the mercy of God in those two instances?Especially when they are his word not ours.
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Thanks. That's where I first became aware of it, and at the bottom of my post I link to a pdf that gives supporting references by
Jay R. McCarl. He wrote the book that was later turned into that movie. My only contribution was creating the outline for it.
I think it does.
Did any rapture position come out of the "Mouth of God"?
How so?
How does Matthew 24 disprove the pre-trib rapture?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
YES = RAPTURE is 100% TRUTH out of God's Mouth = We BELIEVE FULLY in Matt ch24, 1 & 2 Thess, 1 Cor ch15 & more
The very title/phrase of "pre-trib rapture" is antichrist since it opposes the words of CHRIST, the Apostles and the OT prophets
"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.
And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said,"..................... "you will suffer tribulation?"
@Jericho, let us SEE what JESUS says to us (RED letter edition)
John 16:33 - "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation;
but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 24:3-14 - "Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
John 15:18 - “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
@Jericho - These are DIRECT STATEMENTS of FACT/TRUTH out of God's Mouth to us who place their trust in HIM and HIS words.
Here is just one passage from the Apostle Paul - 1 Thessalonians 3:1-5
Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith, that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.
***IMPORTANT*** - 1 Thess chapter 3 comes BEFORE chapter 4 = HELLO = they were in GREAT TRIBULATION unto DEATH
How about 2 Thessalonians 1:3 ???
We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,
HEAVEN to people on earth = 2 Thessalonians Chapter 1 comes BEFORE chapter 2
GOSPEL TRUTH from Genesis to Revelation:
#1 - Tribulation of the Saints precedes God's WRATH
#2 - DELIVERANCE of the Saints comes AFTER Tribulation and BEFORE God's WRATH
#3 - WAIT on GOD for DELIVERANCE = NOAH / DANIEL / JOB / Jews / Saints / Church
1 Thess 1:10 to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Are you familiar with the Berean Bible Society site?
I copied this part for our use. The whole of their study is found here, Evidence for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture
I feel this makes sense when compiling the associated scriptures together. Please let me know your thoughts.
The Rapture of the Church is a Distinctive Pauline Truth
We do not read of the Rapture of the Church outside of Paul’s epistles. Paul taught by revelation that the Church, the Body of Christ, is a mystery (or secret) unknown to men of previous ages (Eph. 3:1-6; Col. 1:25-27). The Rapture is the blessed hope of this Church and the final act of God for our dispensation. Therefore, it cannot be a part of Israel’s program of prophecy outlined by the Old Testament prophets. Since those prophets foretold of the Tribulation (Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21), the Body of Christ cannot be there without violating its distinctive character as a new creation separate and distinct from Israel (Eph. 2:14-17). Anyone who puts the Church through any part of the Tribulation must deal with the incongruity of a secret church participating in a prophesied era. Some pre-tribulationists have unwittingly weakened their position by claiming the Rapture was revealed by Christ in the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24-25), which is most assuredly an integral part of Israel’s prophetic program. MidActs dispensationalism greatly strengthens the pre-Tribulation position. Where you begin the Church determines where you end it! It began with God’s revelation to Paul after Israel’s fall in unbelief and will end before God resumes His dealings with them as a nation.Paul tells us that the Church has been delivered from the wrath to come (1 Thes. 1:10; 5:9; Rom. 5:9). The wrath of God covers the beginning, middle, and end of the Tribulation, as well as the Second Coming of Christ (Rev. 1:10; 6:16-17; 19:11-21; 2 Thes. 1:7-10; Isa. 63:1-6).
The dispensation of grace ends before the Tribulation begins. It is impossible to execute a program of grace and a program of judgment at the same time. They are mutually exclusive.
- There are different gospels proclaimed. Grace (Acts 20:24; Rom. 3:24) and Kingdom (Matt. 24:14). If the Church were in the Tribulation, we could not obey Paul’s command to fight against evil principalities and powers in heavenly places since they will have been cast down to earth (Rev. 12:7-9; Eph.6:12).
- There are different programs involved. Under grace, God is working a program of reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:18-21). He is withholding judgment to administer His grace (Rom. 5:20-21). Compare Psalm 2 with Acts 7.
Daniel’s Seventieth Week Pertains to Israel, Not the Body of Christ
Continues here, Evidence for the Pre-Tribulation RapturePre-trib would make a distinction between tribulation that comes from the world and tribulation that comes from God. We are not exempt from tribulation that comes from the world, but we are exempt from tribulation (judgement) that comes from God. There's plenty of examples in the Bible that demonstrate this.
Who was the Book of Matthew written to? It wasn't to the gentiles, and the church didn't exist yet. It was written primarily to a Jewish audience. Regardless, there has been a partial fulfillment of this within the past two thousand years.
#1 I would agree though we would disagree when God's wrath begins
#2 "Saints" like "elect" can mean different things. You believe it refers to the church, I do not.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
100% AGREE if you change this: "we are exempt from tribulation (judgement) that comes from God."
to this: we are NOT exempt from tribulation that God assigns to us BUT we are EXEMPT from His WRATH
God has already answered your question - Isaiah 46:10 and John 1:11
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying,
My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
God's Prophecy of Promise given to us Fulfilled = John chapter 1
He(the Word) was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become sons of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
If the Gospels were ONLY written to the Jewish people, the nations would have NO hope and neither would the Jewish people.
Now dwell on that TRUTH
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