Miscellaneous observations on the Pre Trib Rapture

[The Light]

Where does Revelation 14:14 say He is not coming in power and great glory there? Or are you just assuming that just because it doesn't explicitly mention that? It does mention that He has a crown of gold on His head at that time. I would say that represents power and glory.

That's what I keep trying to tell him. Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels He will be in power and glory.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That's what I keep trying to tell him. Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels He will be in power and glory.

He's making what is called an argument from silence, which I think you do sometimes as well. Just because a passage doesn't contain a certain detail about an event doesn't mean that passage must be referring to some other event. It would be one thing if the passage somehow indicated that His coming there was not in power and glory, but it says no such thing. To assume that He doesn't come in power and glory there just because it doesn't explicitly say so is ridiculous. And, as I said, the fact that it describes Him as wearing a gold crown at that point suggests that He does come in power and glory at that time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have never anyone draw so many false conclusions. It's a constant barrage of false accusations.

Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives.

Why do you act as if Acts 1 talks about Jesus returning to the same location from where He left? It does not say that. For Him to come in like manner means for Him to come from heaven in like manner as He ascended to heaven. What was the manner in which He ascended to heaven? Visibly and bodily. So, He will come visibly and bodily from heaven just as He went up visibly and bodily to heaven.

 

[The Light]

Why do you act as if Acts 1 talks about Jesus returning to the same location from where He left? It does not say that. For Him to come in like manner means for Him to come from heaven in like manner as He ascended to heaven. What was the manner in which He ascended to heaven? Visibly and bodily. So, He will come visibly and bodily from heaven just as He went up visibly and bodily to heaven.

lol. I left a lot of words out of my post.

I am not meaning the same location. I mean in bodily form. He leaves in bodily form from earth to heaven and will return in bodily form from heaven to earth.

 

[The Light]

He's making what is called an argument from silence, which I think you do sometimes as well. Just because a passage doesn't contain a certain detail about an event doesn't mean that passage must be referring to some other event. It would be one thing if the passage somehow indicated that His coming there was not in power and glory, but it says no such thing. To assume that He doesn't come in power and glory there just because it doesn't explicitly say so is ridiculous. And, as I said, the fact that it describes Him as wearing a gold crown at that point suggests that He does come in power and glory at that time.

You think I do because I say the last trump is not the trump of God..................and it's not. You think the last trump is blown by an angel so it cannot be the trump of God as the trump of God is the voice of God. And I think the last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets.......because it is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

lol. I left a lot of words out of my post.

I am not meaning the same location. I mean in bodily form. He leaves in bodily form from earth to heaven and will return in bodily form from heaven to earth.

Where does Acts 1 say that He will return to the earth? That is not what like manner means, either. We will meet Him in the air, not on earth. He will descend from heaven in like manner that He ascended there which is visibly and bodily. That's it. That's all it says. It doesn't say He will descend to the earth in like manner that He ascended to heaven. To think it's saying He has to go down to the earth is a case of reading something into the text that isn't there.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You think I do because I say the last trump is not the trump of God..................and it's not. You think the last trump is blown by an angel so it cannot be the trump of God as the trump of God is the voice of God. And I think the last trump is blown on the feast of trumpets.......because it is.

Sorry, but I can't make sense of what you're saying here. It seems like you're saying the last trumpet is neither the trump of God nor is blown by an angel? Who sounds the last trumpet then?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives.

Jesus returns at the 6th seal in power and glory as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars which occur at the 6th seal and in Matthew 24. There is no evidence that the signs of the sun, moon and stars take place in Revelation 19 which occurs in the 7th seal.

Say all you want. The Biblical evidence shows that Jesus returns for a harvest at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. Those raptured go to heaven as we see in Rev 7, Rev 15 and Rev 19 and remain there during the one-year wrath of God.




I have never anyone draw so many false conclusions. It's a constant barrage of false accusations.

Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives.


Please post the verse where Jesus declared that the last half of the 7 year tribulation is the great tribulation.

I can post a verse that shows that the great tribulation begins in the middle of the week, but I can't find anything that says that world is in a 7 year tribulation.


There is a 7 year period that begins when a covenant with many is made. In the middle of the week the AOD is set up and from that time there are 1335 days...............But the great tribulation will be cut short.


No. I don't see 7 years of tribulation for the world. I see a 7 year period of time for Israel that will begin when a covenant with many is made. I see the great tribulation begins in the midst of that week when the AOD is set up.





Exactly. 7 year period of time. I don't see a 7 year tribulation in the world. I see a 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

Here we go again.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14:14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. When Jesus shows up for the harvest and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth..............what do the kings of the earth say? They are hiding because Jesus come in power and glory at the 6th seal.........for a harvest..........as marked by signs of the sun, moon and stars THAT YOU CANNOT SEE NO MATTER HOW BIG I MAKE THE TEXT.

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:



However, the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 occurs at the 6th seal and not in Revelation 19

Exactly. There are no signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 19, but there are at the 6th seal. Additionally, Jesus comes at the 6th seal in Matthew 24 as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars, but Revelation 19 occurs in the 7th seal.

Therefore, Jesus comes in power and glory at the sixth seal for a harvest.

And don't start your false accusations and claim I am saying that Jesus is not in power and glory in Rev 19.

Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory. Whether it's at the 6 seal after the tribulation or in the 7th seal at the end of wrath.


No sweat. However, since you continually accuse me of things that I am not saying, I'm pretty sure you don't understand what I believe.

QUOTE
"Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives."
Huh????
You just changed it!!!!
You added the SETTING OF the AC and destroyed planet with no normal life, and all earths population with the mark on their heads and no commerce, plus you added that He is accompanied by millions of horses and saints.
You just ADDED all that.( by insisting acts 1 is the second coming on millions of horses)
Nope
INSTEAD, We have a solo Jesus, in peacetime, with commerce, NORMAL LIFE, and no AC, with the GROOM returning to the Father's house.

I MEAN REALLY??????
IT IS A NO BRAINER.
There is no argument you changed it.
Psssst...so does evert single postribber

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus returns at the 6th seal in power and glory as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars which occur at the 6th seal and in Matthew 24. There is no evidence that the signs of the sun, moon and stars take place in Revelation 19 which occurs in the 7th seal.

Say all you want. The Biblical evidence shows that Jesus returns for a harvest at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. Those raptured go to heaven as we see in Rev 7, Rev 15 and Rev 19 and remain there during the one-year wrath of God.




I have never anyone draw so many false conclusions. It's a constant barrage of false accusations.

Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives.


Please post the verse where Jesus declared that the last half of the 7 year tribulation is the great tribulation.

I can post a verse that shows that the great tribulation begins in the middle of the week, but I can't find anything that says that world is in a 7 year tribulation.


There is a 7 year period that begins when a covenant with many is made. In the middle of the week the AOD is set up and from that time there are 1335 days...............But the great tribulation will be cut short.


No. I don't see 7 years of tribulation for the world. I see a 7 year period of time for Israel that will begin when a covenant with many is made. I see the great tribulation begins in the midst of that week when the AOD is set up.





Exactly. 7 year period of time. I don't see a 7 year tribulation in the world. I see a 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

Here we go again.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14:14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. When Jesus shows up for the harvest and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth..............what do the kings of the earth say? They are hiding because Jesus come in power and glory at the 6th seal.........for a harvest..........as marked by signs of the sun, moon and stars THAT YOU CANNOT SEE NO MATTER HOW BIG I MAKE THE TEXT.

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:



However, the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 occurs at the 6th seal and not in Revelation 19

Exactly. There are no signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 19, but there are at the 6th seal. Additionally, Jesus comes at the 6th seal in Matthew 24 as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars, but Revelation 19 occurs in the 7th seal.

Therefore, Jesus comes in power and glory at the sixth seal for a harvest.

And don't start your false accusations and claim I am saying that Jesus is not in power and glory in Rev 19.

Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory. Whether it's at the 6 seal after the tribulation or in the 7th seal at the end of wrath.


No sweat. However, since you continually accuse me of things that I am not saying, I'm pretty sure you don't understand what I believe.

QUOTE
"Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory. Whether it's at the 6 seal after the tribulation or in the 7th seal at the end of wrath"

NO rapture verse has Jesus returning in power and great glory.
EVERY rapture verse is normal life, peacetime, everyday life and commerce.
You really do need to do a study on the bride of Christ.
From everything you have said, that ingredient is missing.

Once you see the betrothal of the last supper dialogue and the PERFECT MATCH of the Jewsish betrothal, IT IS THAT model that is HEAVENS PRISM of the rapture.
We are espoused/ engaged.
He comes for His bride....the rapture.
The wedding is at the Father's house.

If you choose another prism, then the model formed will be off.

In fact that is WHY no rapture verses are "power and great glory"
.....why the bible setting is bride /groom settings in the harpazo.
Acts1
Matt 24
Matt 25
1 thes 4

Even the Jewish rapture of Rev 14 is a solo Jesus.
No power and great glory.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus returns at the 6th seal in power and glory as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars which occur at the 6th seal and in Matthew 24. There is no evidence that the signs of the sun, moon and stars take place in Revelation 19 which occurs in the 7th seal.

Say all you want. The Biblical evidence shows that Jesus returns for a harvest at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. Those raptured go to heaven as we see in Rev 7, Rev 15 and Rev 19 and remain there during the one-year wrath of God.




I have never anyone draw so many false conclusions. It's a constant barrage of false accusations.

Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives.


Please post the verse where Jesus declared that the last half of the 7 year tribulation is the great tribulation.

I can post a verse that shows that the great tribulation begins in the middle of the week, but I can't find anything that says that world is in a 7 year tribulation.


There is a 7 year period that begins when a covenant with many is made. In the middle of the week the AOD is set up and from that time there are 1335 days...............But the great tribulation will be cut short.


No. I don't see 7 years of tribulation for the world. I see a 7 year period of time for Israel that will begin when a covenant with many is made. I see the great tribulation begins in the midst of that week when the AOD is set up.





Exactly. 7 year period of time. I don't see a 7 year tribulation in the world. I see a 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

Here we go again.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14:14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. When Jesus shows up for the harvest and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth..............what do the kings of the earth say? They are hiding because Jesus come in power and glory at the 6th seal.........for a harvest..........as marked by signs of the sun, moon and stars THAT YOU CANNOT SEE NO MATTER HOW BIG I MAKE THE TEXT.

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:



However, the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 occurs at the 6th seal and not in Revelation 19

Exactly. There are no signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 19, but there are at the 6th seal. Additionally, Jesus comes at the 6th seal in Matthew 24 as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars, but Revelation 19 occurs in the 7th seal.

Therefore, Jesus comes in power and glory at the sixth seal for a harvest.

And don't start your false accusations and claim I am saying that Jesus is not in power and glory in Rev 19.

Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory. Whether it's at the 6 seal after the tribulation or in the 7th seal at the end of wrath.


No sweat. However, since you continually accuse me of things that I am not saying, I'm pretty sure you don't understand what I believe.

Quote
"However, the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 occurs at the 6th seal and not in Revelation 19"
The sixth seal is fast forward to the second coming in Rev 19.

Set Rev 19 in stone and follow the dots.
Don't set earthquakes and sky in stone, then change matt 24 and acts 1.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus returns at the 6th seal in power and glory as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars which occur at the 6th seal and in Matthew 24. There is no evidence that the signs of the sun, moon and stars take place in Revelation 19 which occurs in the 7th seal.

Say all you want. The Biblical evidence shows that Jesus returns for a harvest at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. Those raptured go to heaven as we see in Rev 7, Rev 15 and Rev 19 and remain there during the one-year wrath of God.




I have never anyone draw so many false conclusions. It's a constant barrage of false accusations.

Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives.


Please post the verse where Jesus declared that the last half of the 7 year tribulation is the great tribulation.

I can post a verse that shows that the great tribulation begins in the middle of the week, but I can't find anything that says that world is in a 7 year tribulation.


There is a 7 year period that begins when a covenant with many is made. In the middle of the week the AOD is set up and from that time there are 1335 days...............But the great tribulation will be cut short.


No. I don't see 7 years of tribulation for the world. I see a 7 year period of time for Israel that will begin when a covenant with many is made. I see the great tribulation begins in the midst of that week when the AOD is set up.





Exactly. 7 year period of time. I don't see a 7 year tribulation in the world. I see a 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel.

Here we go again.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14:14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. When Jesus shows up for the harvest and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth..............what do the kings of the earth say? They are hiding because Jesus come in power and glory at the 6th seal.........for a harvest..........as marked by signs of the sun, moon and stars THAT YOU CANNOT SEE NO MATTER HOW BIG I MAKE THE TEXT.

Revelation 6
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:



However, the coming of Jesus in Matt 24 occurs at the 6th seal and not in Revelation 19

Exactly. There are no signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 19, but there are at the 6th seal. Additionally, Jesus comes at the 6th seal in Matthew 24 as evidenced by the signs of the sun, moon and stars, but Revelation 19 occurs in the 7th seal.

Therefore, Jesus comes in power and glory at the sixth seal for a harvest.

And don't start your false accusations and claim I am saying that Jesus is not in power and glory in Rev 19.

Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory. Whether it's at the 6 seal after the tribulation or in the 7th seal at the end of wrath.


No sweat. However, since you continually accuse me of things that I am not saying, I'm pretty sure you don't understand what I believe.

QUOTE
"I don't see 7 years of tribulation for the world. I see a 7 year period of time for Israel that will begin when a covenant with many is made. I see the great tribulation begins in the midst of that week when the AOD is set up."
The 4 horsemen kick it off.
It is worldwide.
Have you read the judgement / wrath of the 4 horsemen?
It is gory, massive, and horrible.
The white horse AC brings a bow. A bow is a covenant. ( figuratively).
In the middle of the 7 yrs the AC breaks the covenant while entering the HOH, and desecration it.
Then the gt.
The wrath.
7 yrs total.

 

[rebuilder 454]

That's what I keep trying to tell him. Whenever Jesus shows up with His angels He will be in power and glory.

It says "see him coming in power and great glory"
Rev 19. ....Yes
Acts 1 ....not at all
Rev 14....nope...it says sitting on a cloud.
If he is sitting on a cloud, can He be seen from earth? Probably not.

Again the game changer is the bride and groom.

Rapture is at midnight in parts of the Earth while in daylight in other parts of the Earth.
So it cannot possibly be every eye will see him

 

[The Light]

Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives.

QUOTE
"Why do claim I need Acts 1 changed? I don't. You never change scripture. Acts 1 does occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.
He returns in like manner after Armageddon when He sets His feet on the mount of Olives."
Huh????
You just changed it!!!!

Sorry. I left out NOT in my post. It should have read

Acts 1 does NOT occur at either rapture. Jesus REMAINS IN THE CLOUDS.

You added the SETTING OF the AC and destroyed planet with no normal life, and all earths population with the mark on their heads and no commerce, plus you added that He is accompanied by millions of horses and saints.
You just ADDED all that.( by insisting acts 1 is the second coming on millions of horses)
Nope

Acts 1 is Jesus setting feet on the mount of Olives after Armageddon.

INSTEAD, We have a solo Jesus, in peacetime, with commerce, NORMAL LIFE, and no AC, with the GROOM returning to the Father's house.

I MEAN REALLY??????
IT IS A NO BRAINER.
There is no argument you changed it.
Psssst...so does evert single postribber

I'm not a post tribber per say. I believe there will be two raptures...........just like the Word says.
The first rapture is pretrib...........before the great tribulation that occurs in the midst of the week.

The second rapture is the Jewish harvest when God comes for the second bride, the seed of the woman Israel, the twelve tribes across the earth. This rapture occurs immediately after the tribulation at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened, and the wrath of God begins.

The Church is in heaven and those that got victory over the beast during the great tribulation will also be in heaven during the one-year wrath of God.

The woman, Israel, those that fled to a place of protection will remain on the earth during the wrath of God..............but they are protected, as believers are not appointed to wrath.