The Coming Rapture

[The Light]

Are you claiming the gathering happened when Christ was speaking in Mark and Matthew?

Have claimed the 6th seal has occurred? No.
Have I claimed any seals are opened? No.

Well, I guess you have your answer.

 

[The Light]

The 144k are part of the church, but is not the whole church nor are any Christian gentiles part of that group. It's a literal 144k men of Israel but they are Christians, the end times remnant.

Hey. Pretty good. They are 144,000 men of Israel as you say. But they are not the end times remnant. The are the first fruits of the second harvest of the fig tree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And therein lies the problem. So I'm wrong for believing the written Word of God. But you think you are right because you don't believe the written Word of God.
That sums it up.

So, you have decided to be a child and make this about one of us supposedly believing the written Word of God and one of us not when the reality is we both believe it as we understand it, but we don't understand it the same way. If you ever decide to grow up and want to talk about this like an adult, let me know.

 

[The Light]

So, you have decided to be a child and make this about one of us supposedly believing the written Word of God and one of us not when the reality is we both believe it as we understand it, but we don't understand it the same way. If you ever decide to grow up and want to talk about this like an adult, let me know.

LOL. I was speaking the truth. Spiritualizing the Word of God or making the Word of God say what you want it say is not understanding the Word of God.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes, I see what you did. You put in a qualifier. Daniel 12:1-2 also has a qualifier.

Nope. LOL!

It's close..........very close.

I'm just saying that "close" and "near" to us is very different than "close" and "near" to the Lord.

This means nothing...

To you. Yes, I understand.

Even though you have said so many times......all the times that you said it, I have missed it.

Not "missed," but dismissed, because... what you see is not there.

What scriptures are you referring that you have gotten crickets on? I will be happy to address anything that you think I am avoiding

LOL! You had many chances... The record is clear.

Sorry it seems you missed the qualifier.

Wait... I missed the qualifier that I supposedly put in myself? LOL!

Everyone that is sleeps in the dust of the earth is not going to be raised at the 6th seal...

No one will be left behind; all will be raised... to one thing or the other, to eternal life or judgment.

..........only the people of Daniel. Theres that qualifier.

<chuckles> No "qualifiers." <smile>

It is the Church that currently is known by Him and we know Him.

Which is true of all believers, all those born again of the Spirit and thus in Christ, of whom there is no ethnicity, as we are all one in Christ Jesus.

That is the first fold.

The only "fold."

After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have its blindness removed.

Nope. Both will happen concurrently and be brought to fruition at the appointed (by God) time.

Then we start over...

Well, all things will be made new, as God says in Revelation 21:5. There is no "starting over." Unless you mean that in the sense of everything being "made new"... <smile>

........first fruits.....144,000 of them and then they that are Christs at His coming.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14... 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel... denote the complete completeness (yes, that does seem redundant, but is very purposeful in John's Revelation) of God's people and their true of-the-Holy-Spirit Jewishness of all of God's Israel, which is then portrayed in Revelation 7:9-17 as an innumerable multitude.

They are the second fold.

Nope, the one "fold." All those given to Jesus by the Father.

At the gathering from heaven and earth the two fold become one fold, the Israel of God.

They were never two in that sense. There was always and will always be only one. We are all one in Christ Jesus.

All go to heaven for the marriage supper and are the great multitude seen in heaven.

Well, the New Heaven and New Earth. As in the great hymn, This Is My Father's World... heaven and earth will then have become one. So, the marriage supper will be right here. We will not "go" anywhere; heaven comes down to us, which in John's vision we "see" in Revelation 21:10 and following: "the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God..."

No.

Yes. <smile>

The great tribulation will occur before the second fold is brought in. Immediately after the tribulation of those days at the 6th seal, Jesus will return and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then the two folds become one fold. We will all be in heaven for the marriage supper during the one-year wrath of God.

Ugh. <smile>

So you think Satan is bound currently. What scripture causes you to believe this?

He is. In Matthew 12, Jesus says, "if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons..." ~ and He is even to this day ~ "...then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods..." ~ which, again, He is, even to this day ~ "...unless he first binds the strong man?" Satan is that "strong man," The Light, and all those who are not born again of the Spirit are "his goods"... their father is the devil. Even now, though, there are some for whom this will not remain the case, although exactly for whom (who will be included among God's elect) we cannot know.

Why do you disagree?

I've been very clear.

We know the great tribulation cannot begin until the AOD is set up. The eliminates the 5th seal being opened.

As I have said, I do think there will be a final, great "ramping up"... a final conflict, if you will... in this period of tribulation, one which, as I said before ~ as Jesus says ~ "great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be..." which "...for the sake of the elect will be cut short."

If the first seal is opened...

See, this is the problem, I think. Not to say the seals are not real things, because they are, but to see them as strictly sequential and mutually exclusive and even singular ~ at least the first five; yes, we can see in the sixth the return of Christ ~ is wrong. As I have said, you are certainly welcome to call that my opinion; I have no problem with that. But this same thing can also be said of the bowls and the trumpets in John's visions. This gets at the gulf, the chasm between the dispensational understanding of Revelation... and the Bible as a whole, really... and the (correct) covenantal one.

...who is the rider on the white horse, the second beast, that carries a bow.....Apollo, also know as Horus, Tammuz, etc. etc. etc.......

As I said before, the four horsemen of 6:1-8 represent conquest, war, famine, and death. These things are past, present, and future (although certainly not eternal) realities, and there have been, are, and still will be (for a time) many, many real manifestations of them; these calamities characterize an indefinite period before Christ's Second Coming.

.....the Antichrist.

Here, I would just say... in this speaks to what I said above... well, point out what John says in 1 John 2, that "you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. I was speaking the truth. Spiritualizing the Word of God or making the Word of God say what you want it say is not understanding the Word of God.

LOL. You were speaking falsehood. Not being able to differentiate between literal and symbolic text within the most highly symbolic book in the Word of God is not helpful for you. Ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).