POSTRIB RAPTURE. A BIBLE ONLY VIEW

[rebuilder 454]

the scriptures are CLEAR
there are "they" who are living in pleasure and are doomed
there is "we/us" who suffer for Righteousness sake BUT will be DELIVERED from God's Wrath

Pretrib doctrine says exactly that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL

What verses have you posted?

Rev chapter 19 i KNOW =
SAME Second Coming as Revelation 6:12-17
SAME Second Coming as JESUS said in Matthew ch24 with more detail
SAME Second Coming as 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 = HE is Coming with the Saints
SAME Second Coming as 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
SAME Second Coming as Daniel 12:1-3
SAME Second Coming as 1 Corinthians chapter 15

When I debunked your " one coming"
I did it with acts1, rev14:14, the virgin parable, mat 24:38, and 1 thes 4., and the one taken/one left.

ALL OF WHICH YOU ARE UNAWARE OF.

But anyone can see I destroyed "one coming"
Which is the head of postribber rapture.
I decapitated that false doctrine.
Quite handily I must add

 

[rebuilder 454]

But there is proof - that there is NO rapture!
Mathew 24:30-31 make it clear that when Jesus Returns, His people will still be on earth. They will never leave the earth, that idea is a fanciful dream of the deluded and deceived. What Paul meant in 1 Thess 4:17, was a transportation, the same as Philip was; Acts 8:39

There is an alternative to the idea of being taken away from all that must take place during the end times and it will be amazing, when we Christians fulfil our destiny of being the people God always wanted in the holy Land. In our heritage: Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Romans 9:24-26, +
We are all believers in the Lord Jesus, He is our Saviour and Redeemer. We are told that we must stand firm in our faith and my concern is for those who want Jesus to remove them from the earth, when we should be prepared to endure trials and to serve Him in the coming Kingdom on earth.

No.
You did nothing
We can all see via a Bible, there is a rapture.
If that word disturbs you, we can call the gathering of the bride something else

 

[rebuilder 454]

His elect from all over the world are gathered in that passage.
Where did Jesus speak of another gathering of the elect in his discourse in Matt 24.??

The disciples asked Jesus what the sign would be his coming and the end of the age.
First the Gospel must be preached in the whole world before the coming and the end of the age.


13 But the one who endures and bears up [under suffering] to the end will be saved. 14 This good news of the kingdom [the gospel] will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end [of the age] will come.

Thank you for bringing the word into the debate.
It is refreshing.
It also debunks any hope of a postrib rapture.
Mat 24 has 2 gatherings. 2 comings.
Impossible to miss.

 

[rebuilder 454]

For now, just respond to the itemized list of the differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming:

At the Rapture:
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air
2. All believers are translated into new bodies
3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
8. It affects believers only
9. It is a time of joy
10. it occurs before the day of Wrath
11. No mention of Satan
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him
15. The Tribulation begins


At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. vChrist judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. The are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins

We can talk about your other response after this, but how are these two lists talking about the same event?

It would be nice if postribbers could grant your request.
But i have no hopes they will.
They would have to debate the Bible verses.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This thread is disappointing thus far. The OP has challenged Post tribbers to undeniably prove Post trib. If I was still Pretrib and I was reading this thread, not one post made by any Post tribbber in here thus far would be enough to convince me Post trib is the correct view.

I probably couldn't do any better myself. Yet, I factor in things that Pretribbers apparently see not being relevant. Such as, if Pretrib is true, what would that mean per this passage or per that passage? Like the last trump, for example, where bodily immortality isn't put on until then. Does the Pretrib position agree with that or does it contradict that? Keeping in mind that there can't be a rapture unless there is a rising of the dead first. But I have already tried that route in other threads pertaining to Pretrib, and didn't manage to change any Pretribbers mind about anything.

There is only one thing at this point that is going to undeniably prove Post trib, thus disprove Pretrib, and that is when great tribulation is upon the church big time, where it is even affecting Christians in the USA, and that Pretribbers are still here. Until then this debate is futile. Pretribbers these days are not like the Pretribbers of my days. I was a Pretribber for decades, yet I still managed to abandon that view eventually.

Pretribbers these days are die hard Pretribbers that are never going to change their mind no matter what anyone argues. But they will change their mind eventually because they will have no choice at that point since great tribulation will be upon us big time and that they are all still here.

I only ask postribers to actually look at the pretrib rapture verses.
I only ask them to look at the "3 comings" verses.
They will not do either.
So any debate is not in honesty.

 

[David in NJ]

Pretrib doctrine says exactly that.

pre-trib doctrine says you will not be here to see that = thus the term "pre-trib rapture"

we can call the gathering of the bride something else

Correct = pre-trib adds to God's words very serious errors such as:

a.) multiple Comings of the LORD, whereas JESUS and the Apostles and the OT Prophets say only One Second Coming
b.) separate Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ, whereas JESUS says One Shepherd for One Flock, One New Man
c.) you will not be here for the AoD, whereas JESUS and the Apostles say = resist the wicked one who is coming FIRST

 

[WPM]

So all 3 comings taught in the Bible are " the day of the Lord"
You are saying there are 3 "days of the Lord"

There is one future coming. Read it. Heb 9:28 unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[WPM]

So all 3 comings taught in the Bible are " the day of the Lord"
You are saying there are 3 "days of the Lord"

You did not address the texts or any of my points.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is one future coming. Read it. Heb 9:28 unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

3 comings irrefutable.
Rev 14:14 can not possiblybthe coming on white horses.
Impossible.
Acts 1, mat 25: 1-9 and mat 24:38 is neither of the 2 comings above, yet all 3 verses point to a pretrib coming

 

[The Light]

CORRECT = JESUS says His Coming is Post-Trib = HE says this beginning in Genesis all the WAY thru the Gospel and His Apostles.

Correct the second coming is at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation of those days.

However, the wrath of God will begin when the 7th seal is opened.

Post trib doesn't even realize they are post wrath.

 

[WPM]

3 comings irrefutable.
Rev 14:14 can not possiblybthe coming on white horses.
Impossible.
Acts 1, mat 25: 1-9 and mat 24:38 is neither of the 2 comings above, yet all 3 verses point to a pretrib coming

Can you address my previous post? You claimed to want to see Scripture that supports Posttrib.

 

[David in NJ]

Correct the second coming is at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation of those days.

However, the wrath of God will begin when the 7th seal is opened.

Post trib doesn't even realize they are post wrath.

OK - good work but let's check this together in the Scriptures.

#1 - We KNOW we are NOT appointed to God's Wrath = 1 Thess 1:10 , 1 Thess 5:9

So we do not have to rehash what we already KNOW is TRUTH and the SURE FOUNDATION upon which we stand.

RIGHT - so in Rev ch6 we SEE the Saints Martyrs under the Altar of God with God saying:
"Many more Saints must DIE this way" BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

The opening of the 6th Seal( Rev ch6 ) we SEE the Second Coming of Christ:
looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

There it is, no adding or taking away from the words of God.

Next Post we can look at chapter 7 and the 7th Seal and keep going until we reach ch22

SHALOM

 

[David in NJ]

Pretrib doctrine says exactly that.

pre-trib doctrine excludes this for it says: "we will not be here"

 

[David in NJ]

3 comings irrefutable.
Rev 14:14 can not possiblybthe coming on white horses.
Impossible.
Acts 1, mat 25: 1-9 and mat 24:38 is neither of the 2 comings above, yet all 3 verses point to a pretrib coming

Are you willing to yield your heart to Hebrews 9:28 ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So all 3 comings taught in the Bible are " the day of the Lord"

Try treading what he actually says. I can tell that you didn't read all of his post. He is saying there is one future coming of Christ and that it will occur on the day of the Lord.

You are saying there are 3 "days of the Lord"

No, he isn't saying that at all. There is one. It would help if you actually read his post.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

3 comings irrefutable.

Ridiculous. Show us then. Prove it. Your opinions mean nothing if you can't do anything to back them up.

Rev 14:14 can not possiblybthe coming on white horses.

Why not?

Impossible.
Acts 1, mat 25: 1-9 and mat 24:38 is neither of the 2 comings above, yet all 3 verses point to a pretrib coming

Please show exactly how that is the case. You make these claims without doing anything to show how you come to your conclusions. What good is that? Are you able to show how you came to your conclusions or not? You expect us to just take you word for it when you make claims like this? Think again. Show us. Back up your claims with scripture if you want to be taken seriously. I don't see how those verses teach pre-trib at all, so show us where you're seeing that in those passages.

Also, please define the tribulation as you understand it. You are just talking about God's wrath that occurs when Jesus comes, right? That is what Jesus compared to the flood in Noah's day and the fire that came down on Sodom in Lot's day (Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-30). Explain what exactly you believe the tribulation entails. Does it result in the destruction of all unbelievers like the flood in Noah's day and

 

[jeffweeder]

Wel well well.
Loookey here...we got a player.
Actually opened his Bible.
Thank you Jeff.
You are hoping to prove " one coming" ?
I agree with all those verses on their face value, but one coming is debunked decisively by a Bible.
Your hopes are not proven.
They are easily DISproven

I am not the only post trib who has been opening his Bible and posting the scriptures.
I see you didn't open your Bible to find OT scriptures about when the raising of the dead occurs.

Allow me,

JOB 14
10
“But [the brave, strong] man must die and lie face down;
Man breathes his last, and where is he?
11
“As water evaporates from the sea,
And a river drains and dries up,
12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.
13
“Oh, that You would hide me in Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead),
That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,


Jesus believed it and so should you.

33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth. 36 But keep alert at all times [be attentive and ready], praying that you may have the strength and ability [to be found worthy and] to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man [at His coming].”

1Thess 5
2Thess1

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wel well well.
Loookey here...we got a player.
Actually opened his Bible.
Thank you Jeff.
You are hoping to prove " one coming" ?
I agree with all those verses on their face value, but one coming is debunked decisively by a Bible.
Your hopes are not proven.
They are easily DISproven

If they are so easily disproven, then why aren't you doing that? Your actions defy your words.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thank you for bringing the word into the debate.
It is refreshing.

Why don't you ever do that?

It also debunks any hope of a postrib rapture.

Then show it. Stop just saying things like this and do something to back up what you're saying for once.

Mat 24 has 2 gatherings. 2 comings.
Impossible to miss.

Impossible to see that. It does not have 2 gatherings. But, you are welcome to show that and back up what you're saying. If you want to be taken seriously, that is. Otherwise, just keep making claims like this while doing nothing to back them up. It's up to you.