Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Hebrews 3:12 says:

“Take heed, brethren, lest there be

in any of you an evil heart of unbelief,
in departing from the living God.”​

The author of Hebrews is talking to the brethren, and tells them, “if there be any of you” who has an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God. This is not in reference to any unregenerate fake believers among the believing flock because of the next verse.

Let's read it.

Hebrews 3:13

“But exhort one another daily,

while it is called To day;
lest any of you be hardened through
the deceitfulness of sin.”
​

So here we see in context that the previous statement of warning to the brethren to not depart from the living God is in context to verse 13 which says to exhort one another daily so that any of you (brethren) will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. The author of Hebrews says, “any of you” be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Hebrews 3:14 makes this even more clear.

Hebrews 3:14

“For we are made partakers of Christ,
if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;”​

For we are made partakers of Christ (i.e. salvation)... IF we hold the beginning of our confidence (trust or assurance) stedfast (firmly fixed or firmly standing) unto the end.

So you have to continue to trust an believe like when you first were saved all the way unto the end to be a partaker with Christ. This is conditional because the word “if” suggests a condition and not a guarantee.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To anyone who has ears to hear:

Hebrews 10:26 says:

“For if we sin wilfully after that
we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”​

What this above verse is saying is that “we” (both the reader and those he is writing to who are believers) cannot go out and sin on purpose like: commit adultery, theft, drunkenness, idolatry. The sacrifice of Christ will not be available to such individuals. This is not talking to fake believers because “we” is included in this verse and it says after we have received the knowledge of the truth. The truth is Jesus. After they received Jesus they cannot willfully or set out to justify sin, otherwise there will be no more atoning sacrifice for their sins so that they can continue in God's plan of salvation.

Yet, while OSASers may claim they are not living like the devil, they do claim that they must sin this side of Heaven at some point again in their life as a matter of fact according to a false interpretation on 1 John 1:8, and Isaiah 64:6. This sounds like willful sin to me or sinning again on purpose because they have declared verbally that they must sin again because they simply cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven. This means they are justifying sin.
This is why what they teach is clearly a false doctrine that is evident to anyone if they were to just read and believe their own Bible plainly.

Side Note:

Also, notice that pesky little word “if” again. The author of Hebrews is saying IF we willfully sin. So there is a chance both the author of Hebrews, and those he is writing to can willfully sin (whereby there remains no more sacrifice for sins). Meaning, one is not saved if they set out on purpose to sin again. So if you believe you must sin again because of some fallen nature and or because you cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven, you are willfully sinning and there remains no more sacrifice for sin for you. There is no more atonement for you if you justify sin and or believe you must sin again because of some fallen nature that you can never overcome in this life.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

1931



And once you were converted you are no longer a lost sinner.

When will the fruits of a saint show forth in you?

That would be for God to determine....we are the clay and HE is the Potter....
Personally speaking , I have “ Born Fruit” for many years...you’d have to hang around with me to see it.....it’s 99% kindness and an eagerness to forgive others....I’m like Jesus in that regard...I also, like Jesus, am a friend to sinners.....also, religious people hate me....just like they hated Jesus....

The Fruit That God is interested in is way more important than eliminating a “ potty mouth”, giving up bingo games or giving up smoking.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

1930


No.

It’s so our Father can be glorified!

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16)

That was Jesus speaking!

“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14)

If only all of those “ do- gooders” * WOULD* give God the credit....they don’t....they use their good deeds and their “ supposed” ability to keep the Law to try to justify themselves—- THESE are the ones that I am talking about....AKA Religionists—- NOT Christians....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Or:

“Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.” (Revelation 2:5)

Please elaborate....I don't see the connection that you apparently see.....thanks...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

To all:

1 Timothy 4:1 says,
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

How can a person depart from the faith if they were never saved? Only a person who was saved saved in the past at some point can depart from the faith.

Any Believer has the potential to fall into Error....that does not mean that he has lost his Salvation....

“ Though “we” might become unfaithful, “HE” Remains Faithful”......

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Any Believer has the potential to fall into Error....that does not mean that he has lost his Salvation....

“ Though “we” might become unfaithful, “HE” Remains Faithful”......

2 Timothy 2:13 is not saying that God will remain faithful to you if you are unfaithful.
It is referring to how God will remain faithful to His word if you are unfaithful.
So if you willfully sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26). God will be faithful to this portion of His Word.

Besides, you are not reading the verse in context, as well.

2 Timothy 2:12-13 says,
“If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”

Verse 12 says if we deny Him, he will deny us. You cannot be saved if God denies you.
Denying God is unfaithfulness. Some OSAS teachers teach that a person can even deny Jesus later on and still be saved. But this of course is false. Just as it is false to think that one can sin and still be saved with OSAS. OSAS is basically a devil's religion because you can live like the devil and think you are in God's good graces. In fact, this was the first lie by the devil in the garden to Eve. The devil wanted Eve to break God's command and make her think she would not die. This same lie by the devil is being pushed today with OSAS.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If only all of those “ do- gooders” * WOULD* give God the credit....they don’t....they use their good deeds and their “ supposed” ability to keep the Law to try to justify themselves—- THESE are the ones that I am talking about....AKA Religionists—- NOT Christians....

Yeah, you have to be a “do gooder” to enter the joy of your Lord. If not, you will be an unprofitable servant who is cast out.

Here is the “do gooder” and his fate:

Matthew 25:21
“His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.”

And here is the “unprofitable servant” and his fate:

Matthew 25:30
“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

For it is written:

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

To anyone who has ears to hear:

Hebrews 10:26 says:

“For if we sin wilfully after that
we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”​

What this above verse is saying is that “we” (both the reader and those he is writing to who are believers) cannot go out and sin on purpose like: commit adultery, theft, drunkenness, idolatry. The sacrifice of Christ will not be available to such individuals. This is not talking to fake believers because “we” is included in this verse and it says after we have received the knowledge of the truth. The truth is Jesus. After they received Jesus they cannot willfully or set out to justify sin, otherwise there will be no more atoning sacrifice for their sins so that they can continue in God's plan of salvation.

Yet, while OSASers may claim they are not living like the devil, they do claim that they must sin this side of Heaven at some point again in their life as a matter of fact according to a false interpretation on 1 John 1:8, and Isaiah 64:6. This sounds like willful sin to me or sinning again on purpose because they have declared verbally that they must sin again because they simply cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven. This means they are justifying sin.
This is why what they teach is clearly a false doctrine that is evident to anyone if they were to just read and believe their own Bible plainly.

Side Note:

Also, notice that pesky little word “if” again. The author of Hebrews is saying IF we willfully sin. So there is a chance both the author of Hebrews, and those he is writing to can willfully sin (whereby there remains no more sacrifice for sins). Meaning, one is not saved if they set out on purpose to sin again. So if you believe you must sin again because of some fallen nature and or because you cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven, you are willfully sinning and there remains no more sacrifice for sin for you. There is no more atonement for you if you justify sin and or believe you must sin again because of some fallen nature that you can never overcome in this life.

Just about every sin is a “ willful” one....a person knows in his head and in his heart when he is about to do something wrong... and he does it anyway....

You ever exceed the speed limit knowingly and keep on doing it willfully because you are in a hurry and you put your selfish desires to get where you want to go above the law? That’s willful sinning, isn’t it?

The confusion about “ willful sins” comes from an ignorance of what Hebrews10 is talking about....people take it out of context .....you gotta read the Nine chapters before it....the “ willful” sin being discussed, and NOTHING else , is the damnable mistake of returning to the Temple to offer up the Blood Of animals to get one’s sins forgiven as opposed to putting your Faith in the Blood Of Christ in Oder to be Cleansed....It’s a warning to the Jews of that day to realize that this side of the Cross —- other than the Blood Of Jesus—there * IS* no other sacrifice for sin....

Text without Context is Error..... properly taught, a five year old could figure out what the “ willful sin” is......some of our “ stiff- Necked” friends in here continue to never understand it or admit that they are wrong....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just about every sin is a “ willful” one....a person knows in his head and in his heart when he is about to do something wrong... and he does it anyway....

You ever exceed the speed limit knowingly and keep on doing it willfully because you are in a hurry and you put your selfish desires to get where you want to go above the law? That’s willful sinning, isn’t it?

The confusion about “ willful sins” comes from an ignorance of what Hebrews10 is talking about....people take it out of context .....you gotta read the Nine chapters before it....the “ willful” sin being discussed, and NOTHING else , is the damnable mistake of returning to the Temple to offer up the Blood Of animals to get one’s sins forgiven as opposed to putting your Faith in the Blood Of Christ in Oder to be Cleansed....It’s a warning to the Jews of that day to realize that this side of the Cross —- other than the Blood Of Jesus—there * IS* no other sacrifice for sin....

Text without Context is Error..... properly taught, a five year old could figure out what the “ willful sin” is......some of our “ stiff- Necked” friends in here continue to never understand it or admit that they are wrong....

Willful sin is setting out to do a specific sin intentionally and with purpose. There may be a day a person did not intend to lie or get angry at another and yet they did so unintentionally. They did not plan to lie or hate a person that day at all, and yet when they were in that situation they did so. So what you propose is simply a lie and not the truth. Peter did not intend to deny the Lord three times. He did not believe it was possible. He did not intend or set out willfully to do so. Yes, the will is involved when it comes to all sin, but that does not make it willful sin in the sense that a person is setting out intentionally to do that sin ahead of time (with full knowledge).

Anyways, this sounds like you are making an excuse to sin and still be saved. Hebrews 10:26 does not allow you such an excuse. How do you not see your belief as a devil's religion? Your actions can be like the devil, and yet... you lay claim to God's kingdom.

 

[Taken]

If only all of those “ do- gooders” * WOULD* give God the credit....they don’t....they use their good deeds and their “ supposed” ability to keep the Law to try to justify themselves—- THESE are the ones that I am talking about....AKA Religionists—- NOT Christians....

People regularly speak in “generalities”, to other people, which gives way to “guessing”, and “reacting” one to the other based on “guessing” the other’s meaning or intent or belief.

Nothing wrong with “do gooders”. It can get side-tracked, when the ‘habit’ is I, I, I, and never a revealing of Because, Because, Because...
Of the Power of God “WITH” me (ie a Believer)
Of the Power of God “WITH-IN” me (ie a Converted Believer)

I get your point...”do-Gooder’s” continually tooting their own horn...
I, I, I....and never revealing, Because, Because, Because....

There is always a consequence for “revealing” the Because.
If a man is revealing...Because of the Power of God, with or in a man...
Some men will HATE you.
Some men will LOVE you.

If a man is revealing...Because of the mans own power...
Some men will HATE you.
Some men will LOVE you.

It’s the HATE or LOVE...consequence...that is often followed by;
Their own reasoning; they hate or love the same things, they have not belief in God, so agree it is all about the mans own power, etc.

Bottom line; Some men who accredit God for their blessings, really do not care what consequences “other men” dole out. Sure, maybe not be pleasant, but is temporary.

All the contention, for example, All the world governments ARE doling out across the whole world:
is FEAR, is LIES, is THREATS, is COMPULSION, is SECRETIVE FORCE....
TO EVERY EAR, or the people at large.

WHEN, one has proved itself CORRUPT, that is the LAST thing to TRUST.

It’s an odd thing for one to reason...what an other does...
For example: Parent learning WHAT teachers have been corruptly teaching (according to a School policy) a Parents child, as TRUTH...the Parents complain..
And continue to send their child back to the SAME school, whose policy IS for all teachers to teach children Corrupt things AS A TRUTH.

ODD!

 

[Taken]

Just about every sin is a “ willful” one....a person knows in his head and in his heart when he is about to do something wrong... and he does it anyway....

You ever exceed the speed limit knowingly and keep on doing it willfully because you are in a hurry and you put your selfish desires to get where you want to go above the law? That’s willful sinning, isn’t it?

The confusion about “ willful sins” comes from an ignorance of what Hebrews10 is talking about....people take it out of context .....you gotta read the Nine chapters before it....the “ willful” sin being discussed, and NOTHING else , is the damnable mistake of returning to the Temple to offer up the Blood Of animals to get one’s sins forgiven as opposed to putting your Faith in the Blood Of Christ in Oder to be Cleansed....It’s a warning to the Jews of that day to realize that this side of the Cross —- other than the Blood Of Jesus—there * IS* no other sacrifice for sin....

Text without Context is Error..... properly taught, a five year old could figure out what the “ willful sin” is......some of our “ stiff- Necked” friends in here continue to never understand it or admit that they are wrong....

SIN, has nothing to do with going over a speed limit.
SIN, has nothing to do with behaviors BETWEEN men.

SINNING, is against God.
FORGIVENESS of SIN, is only Given BY God.

There are RIGHT and WRONG for all kinds of things, that have nothing to do with what is RIGHT or WRONG between A man and God.

Be glad to address any point you would like to raise quoting a Scripture of A man committing A SIN against A man, and A man forgiving A man of Sin.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Titus]

Only those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation will be saved. Salvation is conditional on faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Placing your faith in "water and works" for salvation is not placing your faith in Jesus

Wrong, those who deny Jesus' gospel Mark 16:15-16, lack faith in Jesus.
If you do not believe how God has instructed us to be saved, you lack faith in Him.
I put no trust or faith in water as I have already explained.
I put faith in Jesus and His word.
Jesus explains confession must be made in order yo be saved.
I believe in Jesus because I believe what He tells us.

Matthew 10:32-33,
-Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him will I confess before My Father in heaven.
-But whoever denies Me before men, him will I deny before My Father who is in heaven.

Danthemailman, do you have faith to do what Jesus commands to be saved?

Romans 10:9-10,
-that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
-For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Danthemailman, you lack faith in Jesus for you have already told me that you do not have to make this good confession to be saved!

You have taught this confession that is obviously with the mouth, and must be done publicly.
Is not a confession of faith in Christ that is done with the mouth publicly.
You have taught me this "confession" is "our daily walk in Christ".
Danthemailman, no, Sir! IT IS A CONFESSION UNTO SALVATION!
It is essential in oder to be saved.
It is part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You claim this confession of faith is not something that is proclaimed with the mouth.
You need to learn it is, and you cannot be saved without obeying this commandment.

John 12:42-43,
-Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Jesus, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Jesus, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;
-for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

The confession is not as you interpret as Dan. It is a literal public confession of faith in Christ.

Dan, listen to Jesus.
He will tell you, it is required of every one who desires salvation that they must believe in Him and His word(gospel) to be saved.

John 12:48,
-He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Now learn of the example given of public confession of faith in Christ that is unto salvation.
Acts 8:37,
-Then Philip said, If you believe with all your heart you may.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

The Ethiopian Eunch made that good confession with his mouth publicly before his preacher Philip.
This confession is must certainly a prerequisite to salvation. Just as repentance and immersion in water.


You lack faith in Jesus. You do not believe you must do as He commands to be saved.

1John 4:15,
-whoever confesses that Jesus Christ os the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

1Timothy 6:12,
-Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold of eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

The true believers of Jesus Christ believe what He says will save us!
Not a false doctrine of do nothing disobedience, just believe and be saved.

Danthemailman, answer my question please,
Peter did not have a "weak moment" in his faith as you claim.
The scriptures teach HIS HEART WAS HARDENED TO THE POINT OF NO FAITH!
Mark 16:14,
-Later Jesus appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table: and Jesus rebuked their unbelief and HARDNESS OF HEART, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

Now heres my question:
Peter and the eleven hardened their hearts to unbelief. So much so that they would not even believe the eye witnesses that told them they saw Jesus resurrected!

Dan, if Peter had died before his faith in Jesus returned to him.
Would he have been saved in unbelief?

Don't try and claim Peter had not lost his faith in Christ. Lest you expose yourself for not believing the scriptures.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

...and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

And, so Now the Dumb who cannot confess with the mouth cannot be saved???

 

[marks]

Read it. It's what the Holy Spirit is doing in you that signifies he is abiding in you. The inner witness, alone, is not Biblical. As I said, cultists claim to have the witness of the Spirit. But what is evident in the cults is the lack of the witness of the abiding Spirit in what they do. Again, this is another case of not considering the whole counsel of scripture. Confirmation that you are really called and elected to salvation includes the witness of the Spirit in what you do, not just in what you feel. This Biblical truth has been lost to the church at this present time.

BTW . . . I'm not talking about feelings. To me, a real relationship with our Creator is unmistakable. He confirms Himself to me personally, and in complete agreement with and use of His Word, and no matter what I think of myself, or what is happening in my head, or my behavior - people can be experts of denial and self-justification - yet I am fully convinced that the One Whom I know is in fact the Creator God of the Bible.

Knowing Jesus, this is the heart of everything. Say what you want about how well you act of whatever, but knowing God is what we're here for, and no matter how well you behave, either you know God, or you don't.

Looking at our thoughts and actions can tell us a lot about ourselves. Comparing yourself minute by minute living to the fruit of the Spirit I think may be most useful. I wonder how many of us are willing to give ourselves an honest look according to the Spirit's fruit? How much loving are you? How consistently peaceful? How joyful? Faithful? Are you always gentle? Always trusting? Always self-controlled? 90%? 50%? 5%? What does that indicate? (Rhetorical, of course!)

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding of what the abundant Christian life means, and how do we live like that? I think far too many people put far too much focus on Christianity as a means of improving ourselves so we can get to know God better, and spend their lives fighting against their sins, and hoping God doesn't throw them away, with all this focus on works, and always feeling inadequate, and always feeling guilty, and they miss out on the simple joy of communion with God in Christ, that is, having nothing to do with what a mess we may see ourselves as.

If anyone is a mess, I most certainly am! However, that's no the key fact of life. The key fact of life is that in Christ I am reconciled to God, so that I can be family with my Creator. So it's appropriate to look at one's self, to ask, Do I look like Jesus' bother? Do I act like I am? Talk like Him?

And then, it is fully something else to look at someone and know, that's my brother!

Much love!

 

[Titus]

And, so Now the Dumb who cannot confess with the mouth cannot be saved???

Wrong Sir.

Let me ask you this.
Since nearly all men can confess.
If I found someone born without a tongue.

Does that nullify Jesus' commandment to confess our faith in Christ?
A mute will not be held accountable to the gospel as those who have been given ability.
Would God accept a mute to confess the only way God has given them ability?
Yes!
Mutes can use sign language and write their confession.
That is how they speak!

My uncle has down syndrome.
God does not hold him accountable to the gospel.
He will be in heaven.
Who has excuse to not confess if God has given them ability?

No one will be in heaven that refuse to obey the gospel that God has given then the ability to obey.

God will save the mute.
The mute can believe and obey.
If God would not save certain individuals that have not been given ability.
Then God shows favoritism.

The Scriptures teach God is a most merciful God!
God loves everyone equally.
God will judge everyone according to what God has blessed them with.

Acts 10:34,
-Then Peter opened His mouth and said, In truth I perceive that God shows no favoritism.

Those who try to find loopholes, to not obey the gospel are carnally minded.
There is no hope for them,
Romans 8:7-8,
-because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor can be.
-but you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.

Grace ambassador, can you obey Jesus' commandment to confess your faith publicly in Christ?
If so, you are without excuse to obey.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You don’t really Believe the Gospel because if you REALLY Believed it, you will prove it by RESTING in it....You don't Rest in it

I just don't believe that resting in the gospel means resting in sin like you do. I believe what the Bible says, that grace teaches and enables us to say, 'no', to sin, not allows us to say 'yes' to it as you say it does.

" 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age" Titus 2:12​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are the very definition of one that has “ fallen from Grace” .....and you go even farther than that....you go as far as to “ PREACH” a False Gospel —— Read Galatians 1:8.....show me how you are not one of the “ Accursed”.

Show me where I ever once said that you must earn salvation as a reward of works. You don't seem to realize that you are the accursed one when you carelessly 'rest' in your sin thinking it's okay because of grace. If you really have grace you'll be resisting sin, not carelessly and flippantly embracing it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You confuse the things that “ should” be done and say that they “ must” be done....you have “ Perverted “ the Gospel.

You must do works of righteousness not to earn salvation. You must do works for the same reason you must be wet after claiming to have jumped in the pool. Believers are immersed in the Holy Spirit. If the evidence of that immersion is not present then that person is not a real believer. If the Holy Spirit hasn't given you a new life you don't have the Holy Spirit. It's that simple. And we're not talking about sinless perfection here. And we're not talking about the absence of a struggle with a besetting sin. We're talking about a change of mind, a change of nature. One that has resulted in the desire for and the pursuit of righteous living. Resting in the hammock of sin thinking that's what it means to rest in the gospel of grace shows that person does not understand or possess the gospel of grace.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

2 Timothy 2:13 is not saying that God will remain faithful to you if you are unfaithful.
It is referring to how God will remain faithful to His word if you are unfaithful.
So if you willfully sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26). God will be faithful to this portion of His Word.

Besides, you are not reading the verse in context, as well.

2 Timothy 2:12-13 says,
“If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”

Verse 12 says if we deny Him, he will deny us. You cannot be saved if God denies you.
Denying God is unfaithfulness. Some OSAS teachers teach that a person can even deny Jesus later on and still be saved. But this of course is false. Just as it is false to think that one can sin and still be saved with OSAS. OSAS is basically a devil's religion because you can live like the devil and think you are in God's good graces. In fact, this was the first lie by the devil in the garden to Eve. The devil wanted Eve to break God's command and make her think she would not die. This same lie by the devil is being pushed today with OSAS.

Peter denied Jesus THREE times.....I think he is Saved ....more later....golf course is calling me.....