Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[covenantee]

The grain represents the sons and daughters of Israel, regardless of their spiritual status.

No it doesn't. It represents the righteous, who do not fall, in contrast to the sinners, who die by the sword in verse 10.

Jude
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

 

[CadyandZoe]

No it doesn't.

God is talking about allowing his people Israel to be taken into exile. They will go into exile together and come out of exile together.

But don't miss the essential point here. God is able to distinguish his people by their race, even if human beings can't. Once again, people are using scientism to support ideas and concepts that aren't true or relevant.

 

[covenantee]

God is talking about allowing his people Israel to be taken into exile. They will go into exile together and come out of exile together.

But don't miss the essential point here. God is able to distinguish his people by their race, even if human beings can't. Once again, people are using scientism to support ideas and concepts that aren't true or relevant.

The righteous grain will not fall and will be preserved. The unrighteous sinners will die by the sword.

God distinguishes the righteous from the unrighteous.

God is not a racist.

You might as well stop trying to contort Him into one.

 

[David in NJ]

So, will you show us in Revelation 20 where Jesus is reigning on earth?

My three friends, @WPM , @Scott Downey and @Spiritual Israelite do not know where in Scripture God said this???

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My three friends, @WPM , @Scott Downey and @Spiritual Israelite do not know where in Scripture God said this???

I wasn't aware that we were friends. My friends don't usually treat me with complete disrespect like you do. You were asked where it is written in Revelation 20. Was the question too hard for you? Do we need to dumb things down for you?

 

[David in NJ]

I wasn't aware that we were friends. My friends don't usually treat me with complete disrespect like you do. You were asked where it is written in Revelation 20. Was the question too hard for you? Do we need to dumb things down for you?

How would JESUS respond to this post?

a.) I wasn't aware that we were friends
b.) My friends don't usually treat me with complete disrespect like you do.
c.) You were asked where it is written in Revelation 20.
d.) Do we need to dumb things down for you

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How would JESUS respond to this post?

a.) I wasn't aware that we were friends
b.) My friends don't usually treat me with complete disrespect like you do.
c.) You were asked where it is written in Revelation 20.
d.) Do we need to dumb things down for you

He would probably like you to answer the simple question you were asked about Revelation 20.

How would Jesus respond to the lie you told in this post:

Well then, you and @Spiritual Israelite admitted to defeat a long time ago..........and you keep on that path.

Neither of us ever admitted defeat. If we did, why are we still Amills? So, this was a blatant LIE that you told. But, you are holier than the rest of us, right? You set an example for the rest of us, do you? Is that what you imagine?

 

[David in NJ]

He would probably like you to answer the simple question you were asked about Revelation 20.

How would Jesus respond to the lie you told in this post:

Neither of us ever admitted defeat. If we did, why are we still Amills? So, this was a blatant LIE that you told. But, you are holier than the rest of us, right? You set an example for the rest of us, do you? Is that what you imagine?

JESUS would ask @Scott Downey first since it is his OP/Thread

JESUS would say to everyone this: "You were given ALL of Revelation, not just chapter 20"

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Shalom and Good Night

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

JESUS would ask @Scott Downey first since it is his OP/Thread

JESUS would say to everyone this: "You were given ALL of Revelation, not just chapter 20"

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Shalom and Good Night

No apology from you for your lie about WPM and me then? I see.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The righteous grain will not fall and will be preserved. The unrighteous sinners will die by the sword.

God distinguishes the righteous from the unrighteous.

God is not a racist.

You might as well stop trying to contort Him into one.

Those who study to understand the Bible have adopted a principle of interpretation they call: Not taught here. Through discipline, they learn to avoid superimposing ideas over a text that the text does not support. While an idea 'X' may be true and supported elsewhere in the Bible, the question is whether idea 'X' is supported by the passage at hand. If not, then idea 'X' is "not taught here."

Amos 9:9 does not teach separation based on quality, as you claim. Instead, Amos 9:9 teaches separation based on ethnic origin. Amos chapter 9 describes the restoration and hegemony of Israel.

 

[CadyandZoe]

the 'Calvinist' can believe all the scriptures as written, I don't know what the others believe.
What do you believe about the scripture here?
Your interpretation is in error if you say anything of what I am exposing as the truth here is wrong


John 6
ALL the Father gives to Christ WILL come to Christ; this is an absolute here.
It is why Christ says some do not believe in Him.
Meaning if you do not believe, then you were not 'chosen', 'predestined', 'elected' by the Father before time began to believe in Christ.
And there is scripture that backs that up.

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

We were taught to see our response to God's offer, but contrary to that picture, Jesus taught us to see that believers are God's gift to his son.

 

[CadyandZoe]

He was talking about two types of Israelite - the elect (chosen from the foundation of the earth) and the blinded (reprobated).

Paul is not talking about individual Israelites in Romans 11:11. At that point in his argument, he is talking about their nation.

 

[CadyandZoe]

As usual, you interpret a passage without taking the rest of scripture into consideration.

John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

You think that John 6 means that all who are given to Him can't be lost, yet He said one of them was lost. He was speaking of the disciples in particular.

Also, you don't seem to be considering how the Father determines who to give to Jesus. Is it just unknowable how He determines that? I don't believe so. Think of Cornelius and his family and Lydia. The Father gave them to Jesus. Why? Because they already worshiped Him before hearing the gospel. As Jesus said "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me." (John 5:46). How did people like Cornelius, his family and Lydia come to believe what Moses taught and to believe in God in the first place? Calvinism has no answer for that.

Contrary to what you claim, the verse you selected proves Scott's point. Jesus acknowledges that he lost none except the one "doomed to destruction." I don't think Jesus superstitiously believed in fate. Jesus believes in divine determinism. God is ultimately responsible for the behavior of Judas, just as Jesus said, "that the scripture would be fulfilled."

 

[CadyandZoe]

I do. I deny the teaching that man has no responsibility to make a choice in relation to salvation.

I'm sure you would agree that our choice to believe is not arbitrary. Yes? In order for my choice to be meaningful, it needs to reflect my motivations, likes, preferences, hopes, dreams, aspirations, fears, and loves. But how do such things develop in a human being without guidance from parents, teachers, friends, religious leaders, the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and everyday experience?

But we often get the wrong idea about why people are willing to believe one thing and not another. Paul helps us understand the issue in his opening chapter of his epistle to the Romans.

Romans 1:18-23 discusses God's wrath against human unrighteousness. Paul explains that God's existence and divine nature are evident in creation, leaving people without excuse for rejecting Him. Despite knowing God, many fail to honor Him and instead turn to idolatry, exchanging His glory for images of created things. This passage emphasizes that rejecting God leads to spiritual darkness and moral corruption.

Paul argues that unbelief is not simply ignorance but a willful rejection of a truth that is already evident. He states that God's power and divine nature are clearly revealed in creation, making humanity "without excuse" for failing to acknowledge Him. Instead of worshiping the Creator, people turn to idolatry, exchanging God's glory for images of created things. This rejection, in Paul's view, leads to spiritual and moral decay.

While belief is a matter of the mind, unbelief is a matter of the will.

To understand Jesus' statements in John chapter 6, we first understand his teaching in the previous chapter. John 5:39-47 highlights the unwillingness of the religious leaders to believe in Jesus despite having access to the Scriptures. Jesus points out that they diligently study the Scriptures, thinking that in them they have eternal life, yet they fail to recognize that those very Scriptures testify about Him. Their refusal to come to Him for life reveals a deeper issue—not a lack of knowledge, but a hardened heart.

Jesus also exposes their misplaced priorities. They seek honor from one another rather than from God, making true belief impossible. He warns them that Moses, whom they trust, will actually be their accuser, because Moses wrote about Him. Their rejection of Jesus is ultimately a rejection of the truth they claim to uphold.

Faced with a group of men who willfully fail to recognize that Jesus is the one whom the scriptures describe, he characterizes his own followers as those whom God gave to him. In John 5:39-47, Jesus confronts the religious leaders, highlighting their refusal to believe in Him despite their deep study of the Scriptures. He emphasizes that the Scriptures point to Him, yet they reject the very truth they claim to uphold. Their unbelief is rooted in seeking human approval rather than God's, making their hearts resistant to true faith.

When Jesus later speaks about the Father giving His followers to Him (as seen in passages like John 6:37-40 and John 17:6-9), it reflects the idea that true belief is a work of God. Those who genuinely come to Jesus do so because the Father has drawn them and given them to Him. In light of John 5:39-47, this means that those who reject Jesus are not responding to the Father's call—they prioritize human recognition over divine truth. Essentially, belief is not just about intellectual understanding; it requires a heart that is open to God's guidance.

@Scott Downey

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Paul is not talking about individual Israelites in Romans 11:11. At that point in his argument, he is talking about their nation.

Wrong.

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

Paul hoped to help "save some of them". He was talking about the salvation of individual Israelites.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Contrary to what you claim, the verse you selected proves Scott's point. Jesus acknowledges that he lost none except the one "doomed to destruction." I don't think Jesus superstitiously believed in fate. Jesus believes in divine determinism. God is ultimately responsible for the behavior of Judas, just as Jesus said, "that the scripture would be fulfilled."

It's hilarious to me that you are under the impression that I care what you think about this particular topic. You, someone who can't even discern the deity of Christ. Please don't waste your time talking to me about salvation. You know nothing about it. You can't even discern that when Paul said he hoped to "save some of them", he was talking about the salvation of individual Israelites. You think he was only talking about the nation of Israel instead. Trying to turn salvation into a national thing instead of the individual thing that it is shows a complete lack of discernment on your part.

 

[covenantee]

Those who study to understand the Bible have adopted a principle of interpretation they call: Not taught here. Through discipline, they learn to avoid superimposing ideas over a text that the text does not support. While an idea 'X' may be true and supported elsewhere in the Bible, the question is whether idea 'X' is supported by the passage at hand. If not, then idea 'X' is "not taught here."

Amos 9:9 does not teach separation based on quality, as you claim. Instead, Amos 9:9 teaches separation based on ethnic origin. Amos chapter 9 describes the restoration and hegemony of Israel.

Amos 9:9-10 teaches God's distinction between righteousness and unrighteousness.

Racial distinction is not taught there or anywhere else.

 

[marks]

No Jesus will not be reigning as a king on this earth, not then, not now or in the future.

I'm not at home. If I were at home, I'd be doing home things, but I'm not there.

But that doesn't mean I'm never going to be home, of course not!

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

I'm not at home. If I were at home, I'd be doing home things, but I'm not there.

But that doesn't mean I'm never going to be home, of course not!

Much love!

I am just saying this about Christ reigning in regard to this (old original) earth, not the new earth to come.
If you notice in Revelation last chapters, the New Jerusalem descends from the New Heaven onto the New earth, and God is living and reigning with His people, on the new earth to come in the future.

Christ won't be reigning on an earth full of unrighteousness, (those untold billions at the end of a 1000 years the pre mills say are all in rebellion, make this world an unrighteous place, and nothing happens overnight, the unrighteousness builds every day). Like Peter says we look forward to the return of Christ that brings new heavens and a new earth in which dwells righteousness. We know only God is righteous and God's people have the righteousness of Christ imputed to them. That is the earth Christ will reign on with all His people reigning with Him, on the new earth.
Since God is righteous where God dwells must also be a righteous place.

The first time Christ came he did not live here, he had no place to lay His head, His mission was temporary to be on the earth. The Lord was sojourning on the earth for a very short time. But to dwell like what is described in Revelation, will only happen in the world to come, that coming age of the resurrection.

Luke 9:58
And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

Christ did not call our present earth His home.

 

[marks]

I am just saying this about Christ reigning in regard to this (old original) earth, not the new earth to come.

That has no effect on what I'm saying. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world, that is, kosmos, which is to say, this world system. Jesus never said He would not come and rule on this earth as the Bible has prophesied.

Much love!