Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[Scott Downey]

the 'Calvinist' can believe all the scriptures as written, I don't know what the others believe.
What do you believe about the scripture here?
Your interpretation is in error if you say anything of what I am exposing as the truth here is wrong


John 6
ALL the Father gives to Christ WILL come to Christ; this is an absolute here.
It is why Christ says some do not believe in Him.
Meaning if you do not believe, then you were not 'chosen', 'predestined', 'elected' by the Father before time began to believe in Christ.
And there is scripture that backs that up.

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[Johan]

All the Jews thought Jesus came to release them from the Roman Empire who ruled over them. As is the case in the OT with a Savior. And they were not wrong. God can never change. They just didn't see the Holy War Jesus began. Where He became the Word of the Rider on the White Horse. And we enter it. He gave us His Holy War to enter in Forgiveness. When we turn the other cheek, walk the second mile and give the cloke. And Ukrainian missed it. And they are dying like flies. Just 40 years after Jesus Forgave in walking the second mile with the Jews and the Romans Jerusalem was destroyed. Because that is what happens when you turn the other cheek. God does the Revenge Personally.

Rom. 12:
17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

 

[Scott Downey]

Why do you underestimate Paul's discernment? He was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Do you think the Holy Spirit who inspired 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 didn't know whether the people Paul was addressing were in Christ or not? It would be foolish for Paul to say they were in Christ if he did not know if they were in Christ or not. You make Paul out to be a fool and you make 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 uninspired!

3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and [a]behaving like mere men?

Hmmm, these are the works of the flesh...
Those who practice the works of the flesh will NOT inherit the kingdom of God...

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Done, over and out, judgment rendered.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

the 'Calvinist' can believe all the scriptures as written, I don't know what the others believe.
What do you believe about the scripture here?
Your interpretation is in error if you say anything of what I am exposing as the truth here is wrong


John 6
ALL the Father gives to Christ WILL come to Christ; this is an absolute here.
It is why Christ says some do not believe in Him.
Meaning if you do not believe, then you were not 'chosen', 'predestined', 'elected' by the Father before time began to believe in Christ.
And there is scripture that backs that up.

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

As usual, you interpret a passage without taking the rest of scripture into consideration.

John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

You think that John 6 means that all who are given to Him can't be lost, yet He said one of them was lost. He was speaking of the disciples in particular.

Also, you don't seem to be considering how the Father determines who to give to Jesus. Is it just unknowable how He determines that? I don't believe so. Think of Cornelius and his family and Lydia. The Father gave them to Jesus. Why? Because they already worshiped Him before hearing the gospel. As Jesus said "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me." (John 5:46). How did people like Cornelius, his family and Lydia come to believe what Moses taught and to believe in God in the first place? Calvinism has no answer for that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and [a]behaving like mere men?

Hmmm, these are the works of the flesh...
Those who practice the works of the flesh will NOT inherit the kingdom of God...

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Done, over and out, judgment rendered.

Do you expect to be taken seriously about this when you deny that people who Paul said were "in Christ" were actually "in Christ"? Later in that same chapter Paul said this about those same people:

1 Corinthians 3:21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God. He said they "are of Christ". Why do you not believe that?

Have you never sinned since you became a Christian? You never caused any envy, strife or divisions even one time since you became a Christian? Are we saved by our works of righteousness or by faith? Where does Paul indicate that he was talking to people who did not have faith in Christ? Nowhere. They were baby Christians. Do they not deserve any grace? They need to become mature Christians immediately or else it can't be said that they were Christians at all? You can't apply a passage like Galatians 5:19-21 to immature Christians who are just beginning to learn how to be a mature Christian. That passage refers to people who don't believe in Christ at all. The people Paul rebuked in 1 Corinthians 3 believed in Christ but they were immature spiritually. You take so much scripture out of context.

 

[WPM]

As I said would be the case.


Yep.


Right. I'm fine with just agreeing to disagree on this. But, this doesn't mean I won't talk about this topic with other people if it comes up.

Absolutely. Nothing changes my respect for you.

 

[Scott Downey]

As usual, you interpret a passage without taking the rest of scripture into consideration.

John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

You think that John 6 means that all who are given to Him can't be lost, yet He said one of them was lost. He was speaking of the disciples in particular.

Also, you don't seem to be considering how the Father determines who to give to Jesus. Is it just unknowable how He determines that? I don't believe so. Think of Cornelius and his family and Lydia. The Father gave them to Jesus. Why? Because they already worshiped Him before hearing the gospel. As Jesus said "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me." (John 5:46). How did people like Cornelius, his family and Lydia come to believe what Moses taught and to believe in God in the first place? Calvinism has no answer for that.

Everything that happens to a person, who will be saved, is of God.

Example
Romans 8, 2 aspects here, those who love God, those who are called according to His purposes.
Not all are called to be saved, only some are called to be saints...

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 1
5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 9:15
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Corinthians 1:26
For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

etc...

 

[Scott Downey]

Do you expect to be taken seriously about this when you deny that people who Paul said were "in Christ" were actually "in Christ"? Later in that same chapter Paul said this about those same people:

1 Corinthians 3:21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God. He said they "are of Christ". Why do you not believe that?

Have you never sinned since you became a Christian? You never caused any envy, strife or divisions even one time since you became a Christian? Are we saved by our works of righteousness or by faith? Where does Paul indicate that he was talking to people who did not have faith in Christ? Nowhere. They were baby Christians. Do they not deserve any grace? They need to become mature Christians immediately or else it can't be said that they were Christians at all? You can't apply a passage like Galatians 5:19-21 to immature Christians who are just beginning to learn how to be a mature Christian. That passage refers to people who don't believe in Christ at all. The people Paul rebuked in 1 Corinthians 3 believed in Christ but they were immature spiritually. You take so much scripture out of context.

Paul warns them, Paul cannot know if they will continue to practice the works of the flesh or repent.
It is you who take so much out of context, Why? Because you do not like where the truth of scripture is leading.

Just a few verse later, Paul warns these babes of destruction.
And also you are assuming they really are 'babes in Christ' Paul says he treats them 'AS' babes in Christ, maybe they are simply wolves.

 

[WPM]

Romans 11:8
Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

Great verses.

The religious don’t recognize God’s truth because they are deceived by their father the devil. Any religious knowledge or acts they perform are a result of deception. Man thinking he can come to God is a lie of Satan. He cannot.

Jesus said in Matthew 13:9-16: “Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.”

Unless the Holy Ghost assists you, one is dead, blind and deaf in the natural. The rebellious do not get it, the elect do. Not all men have faith (as you contend), only the elect. A corpse cannot respond to God, they need regenerated by the grace of God.

Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

But outside of the Holy Spirit there is no ability to think holy. You give the flesh (the natural man, the soulish man) holy attributes and spiritual abilities unknown to the inspired text. 1 Corinthians 2:10-16 proves this: “the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God ... the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Paul warns them, Paul cannot know if they will continue to practice the works of the flesh or repent.

Are they Christians or not? Before, you said it can't be known and then you applied Galatians 5:19-21 to them which would imply that you think they were not Christians.

It is you who take so much out of context, Why? Because you do not like where the truth of scripture is leading.

You are the one who is not willing to specifically address my points and is drawing conclusions from your cherry picked selection of verses while ignoring the ones that I'm showing that your doctrine contradicts.

 

[Scott Downey]

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

Paul is hoping for the best.
Then he warns them

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone [b]defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

You do understand the Spirit warns that some will depart from the faith, from Christ and give heed to demonic doctrines!
Do you think such are saved?

 

[Scott Downey]

Are they Christians or not? Before, you said it can't be known and then you applied Galatians 5:19-21 to them which would imply that you think they were not Christians.


You are the one who is not willing to specifically address my points and is drawing conclusions from your cherry picked selection of verses while ignoring the ones that I'm showing that your doctrine contradicts.

Funny but the cherry picked verses are absolutely true, but you don't like the obvious conclusion of what they say, as that really will force you to change your mind, and only God can do that.

 

[Scott Downey]

Great verses.

The religious don’t recognize God’s truth because they are deceived by their father the devil. Any religious knowledge or acts they perform are a result of deception. Man thinking he can come to God is a lie of Satan. He cannot.

Jesus said in Matthew 13:9-16: “Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.”

Unless the Holy Ghost assists you, one is dead, blind and deaf in the natural. The rebellious do not get it, the elect do. Not all men have faith (as you contend), only the elect. A corpse cannot respond to God, they need regenerated by the grace of God.

Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

But outside of the Holy Spirit there is no ability to think holy. You give the flesh (the natural man, the soulish man) holy attributes and spiritual abilities unknown to the inspired text. 1 Corinthians 2:10-16 proves this: “the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God ... the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him.”

Absolutely true, only the elect of God have faith, the rest may persist for a time but they will depart from Christ eventually.

Titus 1
Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

Paul is hoping for the best.

This is a blatant twisting of God's word. I showed you that he later said to them that they belonged to Christ. Was he just hoping that he was right about that?

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Then he warns them

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone [b]defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

You do understand the Spirit warns that some will depart from the faith, from Christ and give heed to demonic doctrines!
Do you think such are saved?

He was talking to those who were "in Christ" and were "Christ's", so, yes, I believe that because Paul said so. What Paul was saying to them is that they were not ready for the meat or solid food of God's word because they were immature Christians. They were drinking the milk of God's word, but, like the natural man, they were still carnal and not able to understand "the deep things of God" (1 Cor 2:10) that could only be spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14).

Nowhere does scripture teach that the simple gospel message can't be understood unless God gives someone special revelation of what it means. The gospel is not part of "the deep things of God" and the "meat" or "solid food" of God's word that can't be understood with human wisdom. Anyone can understand that he or she is a sinner and needs to repent and believe in Christ to be saved. There is nothing deep about that in terms of it being difficult to understand. The deep things of God and solid food are things like we are talking about here on this forum such as determining how salvation works like we're doing now, determining if Christ returns before or after the thousand years and so on.

 

[WPM]

That was said in relation to the unbelieving Israelites of Paul's day. And what do you think that means? Do you think that was a permanent condition? If so, why did Paul go on to say that he hoped to save some of them by way of making them jealous of the salvation of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

He was talking about two types of Israelite - the elect (chosen from the foundation of the earth) and the blinded (reprobated).

 

[David in NJ]

The next time you make a convincing argument to back up your Premill view will be the first time. You're all about eisegesis with no exegesis.

Amil's only foundation on a spiritual 1,000 years is pure 'eisegesis' = same as pre-fib rapture

Unfortunatelly you are missing out on the reliable 'eyeseejesus' Holy Spirit Guide Service Walk thru the Holy Scriptures.

@WPM is correct. in that there is no corroborative evidence within scripture of the 1,000 years being other then clearly stated by God Himself as literal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amil's only foundation on a spiritual 1,000 years is pure 'eisegesis' = same as pre-fib rapture

 

[David in NJ]

View attachment 61839

Nice video of your Bible teacher................lolx100

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He was talking about two types of Israelite - the elect (chosen from the foundation of the earth) and the blinded (reprobated).

Who is being referred to in verse 11? Those who were blinded. Paul pointed out how they stumbled, but not beyond recovery. They were not blinded permanently, but were blinded so that the gospel would go to the Gentiles, who, in turn, would provoke the blinded Israelites to jealousy. After saying that Paul then said he hoped to lead some of them to salvation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nice video of your Bible teacher................lolx100

Here's a photo of yours.