Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[Scott Downey]

And another thing, this, there will not be any babes born during a 1000 yr reign on this earth.
Where are the parents coming from?
The only survivors of the coming Day of Vengeance of our God are saved Christians, anyone else experiences the destructive wrath of God.
Jesus saves us believers from the wrath of God to come.

If the church involved fake believers who live according to the flesh are destroyed, how much more so the unbelieving sinners?

They will die with their sins unforgiven them.

1 Peter 4:18
Now “If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

Philippians 3

Our Citizenship in Heaven​

17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

*****************************
Since we shall all be changed to a body like Christ has, a glorified body in which we are like the angels in heaven, we won't be having any marriage or babies.

 

[WPM]

That has no effect on what I'm saying. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world, that is, kosmos, which is to say, this world system. Jesus never said He would not come and rule on this earth as the Bible has prophesied.

Much love!

Where does Rev 20 teach Jesus would come and rule on this earth?

 

[WPM]

How would JESUS respond to this post?

a.) I wasn't aware that we were friends
b.) My friends don't usually treat me with complete disrespect like you do.
c.) You were asked where it is written in Revelation 20.
d.) Do we need to dumb things down for you

Dry your eyes and grow up.

 

[WPM]

He would probably like you to answer the simple question you were asked about Revelation 20.

How would Jesus respond to the lie you told in this post:

Neither of us ever admitted defeat. If we did, why are we still Amills? So, this was a blatant LIE that you told. But, you are holier than the rest of us, right? You set an example for the rest of us, do you? Is that what you imagine?

He's not worth wasting time on. He is projectionist. He's describing himself in his charges. He is representing nobody but himself. All he has now is avoidance and petty name-calling.

 

[WPM]

As usual, you interpret a passage without taking the rest of scripture into consideration.

John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

You think that John 6 means that all who are given to Him can't be lost, yet He said one of them was lost. He was speaking of the disciples in particular.

Also, you don't seem to be considering how the Father determines who to give to Jesus. Is it just unknowable how He determines that? I don't believe so. Think of Cornelius and his family and Lydia. The Father gave them to Jesus. Why? Because they already worshiped Him before hearing the gospel. As Jesus said "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me." (John 5:46). How did people like Cornelius, his family and Lydia come to believe what Moses taught and to believe in God in the first place? Calvinism has no answer for that.

It is pretty simple when you do not have to fight with the Word.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is pretty simple when you do not have to fight with the Word.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

I agree.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Joshua 24:14 Now therefore fear the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Ezekiel 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Ritajanice]

Where does Rev 20 teach Jesus would come and rule on this earth?

I don’t think Jesus could come back and rule on this earth in its corrupt state?..do you....I thought there is going to be a new heaven and a new earth?

Revelation 21

King James Version

​

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[WPM]

I agree.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Joshua 24:14 Now therefore fear the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

They can only go there if God gives them the power and faith to go there. Without the gift of faith no one can believe.

Romans 3:11-12 explains why, saying, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable."

Man by nature will always run from God. He will never come to God. His nature is to rebel against God. When man goes over the natural line of outright rejection of God then he becomes reprobate. This is the end of every man natural. That is why he needs a supernatural intervention where Christ first opens his eyes. When he then sees his awful predicament then he repents and believes.

Isa 64:7 there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Arminianists ignore or explain away these passages as it exposes their doctrine of elevating the flesh. Man is totally depraved in all his faculties. The Bible teaches that unregenerate man is not able to save himself. He has no natural inclination to desire it or any capability to initiate it. Those that attribute godly abilities to the old nature are clearly in error on this matter. We can only therefore conclude in the words of Scripture, “it is not of him that willeth (or of him that desires), nor of him that runneth (or walks hastily – or of human effort), but of God that sheweth mercy” (Romans 9:16).

Salvation does not emanate from man. It cannot be realized by human merit, human desire or human labor. Man can no more create his second birth than he can his first birth. It is a sovereign act of God’s mercy. This may be humbling to the flesh, but it is so. The man exercising faith and repentance and any righteous thought can only do such through the work of the Spirit. It is nothing of him. He is simply a conduit that the Spirit works through.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Wrong.

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

Paul hoped to help "save some of them". He was talking about the salvation of individual Israelites.

I agree. However, he is answering a rhetorical question about his nation. How did his nation act, and how did God respond to the nation? As a nation, they committed a transgression.

In Romans 11:12, Paul speaks of Israel’s transgression and how it led to blessings for the Gentiles. The term transgression here refers to Israel’s rejection of Jesus as the Messiah, which opened the door for non-Jews to receive salvation. Paul argues that if Israel’s failure brought riches to the world, then their eventual restoration will bring even greater blessings.

Later, in Romans 11:15, Paul suggests that Israel’s rejection led to reconciliation for the world, meaning that their stumbling allowed the message of salvation to spread beyond Israel. However, he also holds out hope for their future acceptance, which he describes as "life from the dead"—a reference to their spiritual renewal.

There is a strong thematic connection between Romans 11:11 and Deuteronomy 30! In Deuteronomy 30, Moses speaks of Israel’s restoration after turning back to God, emphasizing that repentance leads to renewal. Similarly, in Romans 11:11, Paul explains that Israel’s stumbling has led to salvation for the Gentiles, but this is not the end—Israel, too, will have the opportunity to return and be restored.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It's hilarious to me that you are under the impression that I care what you think about this particular topic. You, someone who can't even discern the deity of Christ. Please don't waste your time talking to me about salvation. You know nothing about it. You can't even discern that when Paul said he hoped to "save some of them", he was talking about the salvation of individual Israelites. You think he was only talking about the nation of Israel instead. Trying to turn salvation into a national thing instead of the individual thing that it is shows a complete lack of discernment on your part.

I would like a response to what I said. How does it matter whether or not I am a heretic? The truth stands independently, and you can defend your position. However, perhaps you are unable to provide a rational defense of your stance because reason was not the basis for your conclusion.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Amos 9:9-10 teaches God's distinction between righteousness and unrighteousness.

Racial distinction is not taught there or anywhere else.

Defend your ideas from the scripture. Show me where Amos makes the distinction you want to make.

 

[Ritajanice]

They can only go there if God gives them the power and faith to go there. Without the gift of faith no one can believe.

Romans 3:11-12 explains why, saying, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable."

Man by nature will always run from God. He will never come to God. His nature is to rebel against God. When man goes over the natural line of outright rejection of God then he becomes reprobate. This is the end of every man natural. That is why he needs a supernatural intervention where Christ first opens his eyes. When he then sees his awful predicament then he repents and believes.

Isa 64:7 there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Arminianists ignore or explain away these passages as it exposes their doctrine of elevating the flesh. Man is totally depraved in all his faculties. The Bible teaches that unregenerate man is not able to save himself. He has no natural inclination to desire it or any capability to initiate it. Those that attribute godly abilities to the old nature are clearly in error on this matter. We can only therefore conclude in the words of Scripture, “it is not of him that willeth (or of him that desires), nor of him that runneth (or walks hastily – or of human effort), but of God that sheweth mercy” (Romans 9:16).

Salvation does not emanate from man. It cannot be realized by human merit, human desire or human labor. Man can no more create his second birth than he can his first birth. It is a sovereign act of God’s mercy. This may be humbling to the flesh, but it is so. The man exercising faith and repentance and any righteous thought can only do such through the work of the Spirit. It is nothing of him. He is simply a conduit that the Spirit works through.

What a fantastic post....Praise God for it.....Amen!!

 

[covenantee]

Defend your ideas from the scripture. Show me where Amos makes the distinction you want to make.

Righteous grain vs. unrighteous sinners.

Your turn.

Defend your racialization. It's not in Scripture so you'll have to find it somewhere else.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They can only go there if God gives them the power and faith to go there. Without the gift of faith no one can believe.

So, here we go again. I guess we should both just admit that we don't want to let this go.

Scripture nowhere teaches what you said here. Why did you not address the scriptures I referenced which show that God makes man responsible to respond to His call to repent and believe? Saving faith is not the gift of God as Calvinism teaches. Salvation and eternal life is the gift of God given by His gracious offer to those who will accept it by faith (Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 6:23, Titus 2:11).

Do you believe that God wants all people to be saved, as scripture teaches?

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Do you believe that God commands all people everywhere to repent and judges all people based on their response to His command, as scripture teaches?

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Do you believe that God loved all people in the whole world so much that He gave His only Son to die for their sins so that they could have the opportunity for eternal life instead of perishing eternally in the lake of fire, as scripture teaches?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ezekiel 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Calvinism teaches that God hates some people while scripture teaches that He loves all people and proved that by sending His Son to die for their sins.

Romans 3:11-12 explains why, saying, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable."

Man by nature will always run from God. He will never come to God. His nature is to rebel against God. When man goes over the natural line of outright rejection of God then he becomes reprobate. This is the end of every man natural. That is why he needs a supernatural intervention where Christ first opens his eyes. When he then sees his awful predicament then he repents and believes.

Do you not recall that we have already discussed this before and that I agreed with this, but pointed out that God calls people to salvation by the preaching of the gospel and speaking to their hearts by the Holy Spirit to reveal one's sinful and lost status, but that can be resisted?

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Isa 64:7 there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Arminianists ignore or explain away these passages as it exposes their doctrine of elevating the flesh.

Calvinists ignore or explain away all of the passages I referenced as they expose their doctrine of removing all responsibility from man to repent and believe despite man having no excuse for not doing so (Romans 1:18-21) and their doctrine which teaches that God, who is love (1 John 4:8) hates some people so much that He created them without giving them any opportunity to be saved (despite having no pleasure in their deaths and wishing they would repent instead!) so that they would be guaranteed to be tormented for eternity in the lake of fire.

Man is totally depraved in all his faculties.

This is not taught anywhere in scripture. You rightly show that none seek God because all are sinners, and, yet....

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

So, how do you reconcile that none seek God and, yet, "he rewards those who earnestly seek him"? Obviously, we know there are no contradictions in the word of God, so how can we explain this?

It's easily explained by the fact that God initiates things by first reaching out to man with the preaching of the gospel and the convicting influence of the Holy Spirit speaking to men's hearts. Once this happens, man then has the choice of how to respond. He has the choice to respond by seeking God and putting his faith in Him or rejecting what he has heard and resisting the promptings of the Holy Spirit for him to repent of his sins.

The Bible teaches that unregenerate man is not able to save himself.

Yes, of course! That's why God requires people to admit this by repenting of their sins and trusting in Christ for their salvation instead of themselves!

He has no natural inclination to desire it or any capability to initiate it.

Exactly! That's why God initiates it and then requires man to choose how to respond. To choose this day who he will serve (Joshua 24:14-15).

Those that attribute godly abilities to the old nature are clearly in error on this matter.

What do you mean by this?

We can only therefore conclude in the words of Scripture, “it is not of him that willeth (or of him that desires), nor of him that runneth (or walks hastily – or of human effort), but of God that sheweth mercy” (Romans 9:16).

Yes, of course! Man cannot give himself mercy. That is completely up to God whether to have mercy on someone or not. But, Calvinists always only tell part of the story. God wants to have mercy on all people!

Romans 11:30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Why do Calvinists never speak of God's desire for all people to repent and to be saved so that he can have mercy on them? Why act as if God's mercy and election are unconditional when that is clearly not the case?

Salvation does not emanate from man.

Correct. Man is responsible to admit this and that only the blood of Jesus can save him.

It cannot be realized by human merit,

Absolutely! We are saved by grace through faith and not by our works.

human desire or human labor. Man can no more create his second birth than he can his first birth.

Of course. We all believe this. Regeneration is performed by the Spirit. But, Calvinists don't understand that regeneration follows faith and doesn't precede it. I showed you this by how the disciples received the Holy Spirit and were regenerated after they had already had faith.

It is a sovereign act of God’s mercy. This may be humbling to the flesh, but it is so. The man exercising faith and repentance and any righteous thought can only do such through the work of the Spirit.

Where is this taught in scripture?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree. However

There's no "however" about it. Your "however" proves that you don't really agree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I would like a response to what I said.

Well, you're not going to get it. You showed you clearly have no understanding of salvation, so I don't have any desire to talk about that with you.

How does it matter whether or not I am a heretic?

LOL. It matters because sometimes I don't feel like wasting my time talking to such a person.

The truth stands independently, and you can defend your position.

I have defended it thoroughly to other people. You can read those posts.

However, perhaps you are unable to provide a rational defense of your stance because reason was not the basis for your conclusion.

LOL. Delusional, as always. Go read my other posts if you want to learn more about what I believe about this particular topic. I'm not going to repeat what I've said to others about it already.

 

[marks]

Where does Rev 20 teach Jesus would come and rule on this earth?

Where does Rev 20 teach that Jesus won't come and rule on this earth?

Both questions are of equal value as neither one are directly addressed in that chapter. However, there are many prophecies more plain, that specify the chosen nation begin regathered to their land, in which God Himself would live with them. It's hard to imagine that we haven't been through these before. Let me know it you'd like a refresher. We'll look at chapters in Dueteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, at prophecies given by Jesus. If you want.

But I think we've discussed this and topics like it, and I'm not planning to try to convince you of anything.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where does Rev 20 teach that Jesus won't come and rule on this earth?

Both questions are of equal value as neither one are directly addressed in that chapter.

Thank you for acknowledging this. Some of your fellow premills can't even bring themselves to acknowledge what you said here. So, we have to look at other scripture besides Revelation 20 that speaks of things like the first resurrection, Christ reigning and His followers being priests in order to see what the timing of Revelation 20 is. Other scripture like this..

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

However, there are many prophecies more plain, that specify the chosen nation begin regathered to their land, in which God Himself would live with them. It's hard to imagine that we haven't been through these before. Let me know it you'd like a refresher. We'll look at chapters in Dueteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, at prophecies given by Jesus. If you want.

Why wouldn't you look at any other NT passages for help in discerning what Revelation 20 is about? Such as Revelation 1:5-6, for example, which speaks of Jesus's resurrection being the first resurrection and of Him reigning now with His followers being His priests (compare to Rev 20:6)?