Chuck Missler Proves The Pre-Trib Rapture

[David in NJ]

@doctrox @MA2444

The real sin in pre-trib rapture is that it is from the spirit of antichrist, which opposes the very words of Christ.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


The 2nd real sin in pre-trib rapture is that it opposes the Apostles who spoke by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.



The 3rd sin in pre-trib rapture is that it opposes the words of the OT Prophets who spoke by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

 

[MA2444]

@doctrox @MA2444

The real sin in pre-trib rapture is that it is from the spirit of antichrist, which opposes the very words of Christ.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


The 2nd real sin in pre-trib rapture is that it opposes the Apostles who spoke by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.



The 3rd sin in pre-trib rapture is that it opposes the words of the OT Prophets who spoke by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

Sin, in a pretrib rapture belief...?? You guys are too nuts for me. You can see sin in watching for Lord sooner rather than later (A Lot of Sin!) but you can't tell when Jesus changed the subject? Whatever.

Suppose you tell me what this sin is? The sin of...?? What?

So what your telling is do not look for Jesus to return yet or I may fall into sin? Hmm, that sounds serious. I can't fathom what sin that might be? I don't want to sin Brother! How long should I wait until I start looking for the Lord?

 

[David in NJ]

Sin, in a pretrib rapture belief...?? You guys are too nuts for me. You can see sin in watching for Lord sooner rather than later (A Lot of Sin!) but you can't tell when Jesus changed the subject? Whatever.

Suppose you tell me what this sin is? The sin of...?? What?

So what your telling is do not look for Jesus to return yet or I may fall into sin? Hmm, that sounds serious. I can't fathom what sin that might be? I don't want to sin Brother! How long should I wait until I start looking for the Lord?

Keep in your heart/mind that we are BRETHREN and not out to 'GETCHA'

We are here to SHARE in TRUTH which is only found in CHRIST and the words of God = the Holy Scriptures

This is the sin that so many of us overlook: Proverbs 30:6

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

 

[MA2444]

Keep in your heart/mind that we are BRETHREN and not out to 'GETCHA'

We are here to SHARE in TRUTH which is only found in CHRIST and the words of God = the Holy Scriptures

This is the sin that so many of us overlook: Proverbs 30:6

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Ok that's fine. But you went through a big diatribe about how sinful a pre trib view is and I don't want to sin and am trying to keep up with you on this...and I don't know what kind of sin it might be. What sin is it?! Murder, no. False witness? No. Stealing? No. SO what is sinful about me watching for the Lord tonight when you Know He isnt coming until tomorrow!

You wrote a treatise on how sinful it is and I you never said what sin? SO tell me and don't go off on a tangent. What. Sin. Is. It?

 

[David in NJ]

Ok that's fine. But you went through a big diatribe about how sinful a pre trib view is and I don't want to sin and am trying to keep up with you on this...and I don't know what kind of sin it might be. What sin is it?! Murder, no. False witness? No. Stealing? No. SO what is sinful about me watching for the Lord tonight when you Know He isnt coming until tomorrow!

You wrote a treatise on how sinful it is and I you never said what sin? SO tell me and don't go off on a tangent. What. Sin. Is. It?

The pre-trib doctrine (not you) is bearing false witness against:
a.) Christ = Matt ch24
b.) the Apostles = Acts, 1st & 2nd Thessalonians , 1 John , 1 Peter, James etc
c.) OT Prophets = Genesis, Daniel, Zechariah

This is why God says that if we add to His words or take away from them we are, thru ignorance, calling God a liar.

Let us look at it from this vantage point: If God did not Say it, then we should not declare it as if He did say it.

i am SURE that at various times in your life someone took your words and added to them(or twisted) which changed what you actually did say AND you were not happy with that!

How much MORE will God be when HE judges men/women who twisted His words, especially for profit.

SEE, right now if you called me and said: Dave, can you come over and help me with.....x,y&z.......I would say sure Brother.

Obviously we would need to live within an hour or so of each other and if it was farther and of utmost IMPORTANCE i am sure God would assist us for it to take place.

 

[Scott Downey]

Post trib rapture mentioned by Christ

Mark 13

The Great Tribulation​

14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ [f]spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the [g]elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

The Coming of the Son of Man​

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

 

[Scott Downey]

KJ21
And then shall He send His angels and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
ASV
And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
AMP
And then He will send out the angels, and will gather together His elect [those He has chosen for Himself] from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
AMPC
And then He will send out the angels and will gather together His elect (those He has picked out for Himself) from the four winds, from the farthest bounds of the earth to the farthest bounds of heaven.
BRG
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
CSB
He will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
CEB
Then he will send the angels and gather together his chosen people from the four corners of the earth, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.
CJB
He will send out his angels and gather together his chosen people from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
CEV
He will send his angels to gather his chosen ones from all over the earth.
DARBY
and then shall he send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from end of earth to end of heaven.
DLNT
And at that time He will send out the angels, and He will gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the heaven.
DRA
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[Scott Downey]

ERV
He will send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.
EASY
Then he will send his angels. They will go in every direction, to every part of the earth and to every part of the sky. They will bring together all the people that God has chosen.
EHV
At that time he will send out his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of the sky.
ESV
And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
ESVUK
And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
EXB
Then he will send his angels to gather his ·chosen people [elect] from ·all around the earth [the four winds], from ·every part [the farthest end] of the earth and from ·every part [the farthest end] of heaven [Deut. 30:4; Zech. 2:6].
GNV
And he shall then send his Angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, and from the utmost part of the earth to the utmost part of heaven.
GW
He will send out his angels, and from every direction under the sky, they will gather those whom God has chosen.
GNT
He will send the angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather God's chosen people from one end of the world to the other.
HCSB
He will send out the angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.
ICB
The Son of Man will send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.
ISV
He’ll send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the most remote part of earth to the most remote part of heaven.”
PHILLIPS
Then men shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send out his angels to summon his chosen together from every quarter, from furthest earth to highest heaven.

 

[MA2444]

The pre-trib doctrine (not you) is bearing false witness against:
a.) Christ = Matt ch24
b.) the Apostles = Acts, 1st & 2nd Thessalonians , 1 John , 1 Peter, James etc
c.) OT Prophets = Genesis, Daniel, Zechariah

This is why God says that if we add to His words or take away from them we are, thru ignorance, calling God a liar.

Let us look at it from this vantage point: If God did not Say it, then we should not declare it as if He did say it.

i am SURE that at various times in your life someone took your words and added to them(or twisted) which changed what you actually did say AND you were not happy with that!

How much MORE will God be when HE judges men/women who twisted His words, especially for profit.

SEE, right now if you called me and said: Dave, can you come over and help me with.....x,y&z.......I would say sure Brother.

Obviously we would need to live within an hour or so of each other and if it was farther and of utmost IMPORTANCE i am sure God would assist us for it to take place.

SO I am not sinning by sharing my pre trib view? Because I aint selling books or CD's?

I aint making any profit and don't even take donations, lol. So I am not sinning or I am?

So is it ok if I watch for Jesus tonight? That wouldn't be sinful would it?

 

[MA2444]

Jesus didn't really change the subject on v32. He introduced a time-sensitive parable, assuring his disciples that specific generation would not pass until those things took place.

The apostle understood this as Jesus returning within their generation, and that's the exact promise Jesus repeated multiple times to them in the Book of Revelation.

[Rev 1:1 NASB95] 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated [it] by His angel to His bond-servant John,

[Rev 1:3 NASB95] 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

[Rev 2:25 NASB95] 25 'Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.

[Rev 3:10-11 NASB95] 10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that [hour] which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

[Rev 22:10 NASB95] 10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

[Rev 22:12 NASB95] 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

[Rev 22:20 NASB95] 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.​

John 11:35

 

[David in NJ]

SO I am not sinning by sharing my pre trib view? Because I aint selling books or CD's?

I aint making any profit and don't even take donations, lol. So I am not sinning or I am?

So is it ok if I watch for Jesus tonight? That wouldn't be sinful would it?

You can watch for JESUS all night if you wish.

Holy Spirit Prophecy #1 : JESUS will not be coming on the clouds tonight = GUARANTEED
Holy Spirit Prophecy #2: JESUS will not be coming on the clouds in 2025 = GUARANTEED
Holy Spirit Prophecy #3: JESUS will come "immediately after the tribulation of those days" = GUARANTEED


HE may come for you though! If you wake up in Heaven you know that HE came for you last night.

You can share your pre-trib view whenever you want, but if you want to please God you will turn away from adding words to God's and thus brake the commandments.

James 3:1 - "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

 

[ScottA]

Ok...?? WHat points were wrong and why? What are your supporting scriptures? You have no answer better than anyone else. No proof. No scriptures. No counter points...nothing. SO on what am I to make the determination that chuck is wrong, the rapture cant be pre trib?

Do I go by your word? (I dont know you). Your reputation? Reputation based on what? I'm sorry Brother but you havent said anything edifying or revelatory with regard to the rapture.

Nice try though!

"Pre-trib" is wrong. But don't misunderstand, so is "post" or "mid" trib. It is the whole of scripture that supports this--showing that tribulations began at the beginning, are part of every life, and do not stop until the end. On the contrary, most missed it, but Paul stated it correctly, saying, "but each one (individual person) in his own order."

But you refer to "great tribulation", which specifically is supported by John 16:33: "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” --Every tribulation--all tribulation, that was placed upon Christ, is that "great tribulation." There is no greater tribulation than all tribulation.

 

[Scott Downey]

JUB
And then shall he send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth unto the uttermost part of the heaven.
KJV
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
AKJV
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
LSB
And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
LEB
And then he will send out the angels, and will gather the elect together from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.
TLB
And I will send out the angels to gather together my chosen ones from all over the world—from the farthest bounds of earth and heaven.
MSG
“And then they’ll see the Son of Man enter in grand style, his Arrival filling the sky—no one will miss it! He’ll dispatch the angels; they will pull in the chosen from the four winds, from pole to pole.
MEV
Then He will send His angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of the earth to the farthest part of heaven.
MOUNCE
And at that time he will send his angels, and will gather · his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
NOG
He will send out his angels, and from every direction under the sky, they will gather those whom God has chosen.
NABRE
and then he will send out the angels and gather [his] elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of the sky.
NASB
And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the end of the earth to the end of heaven.
NASB1995
And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
NCB
And he will send forth his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
NCV
Then he will send his angels all around the earth to gather his chosen people from every part of the earth and from every part of heaven.
NET
Then he will send angels and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
NIRV
He will send his angels. He will gather his chosen people from all four directions. He will bring them from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
NIV
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
NIVUK
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
NKJV
And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
NLV
He will send His angels. They will gather together God’s people from the four winds. They will come from one end of the earth to the other end of heaven.

 

[Scott Downey]

Review what Christ says, not all flesh and blood are killed during the great tribulation, God shortens the days for the sake of the elect whom He chose. So that means some elect believers live to see Christ's return and with that scriptures do agree in various places
Since he is speaking of His elect people, v26 certainly includes some of them seeing His returning.
Christ tells His people at that to take heed, watch and pray. Why would Christ say that if no one remains, left alive till His returning?

The Great Tribulation​

14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ [f]spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the [g]elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

No One Knows the Day or Hour​

32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

 

[Scott Downey]

Luke 21 Watch and pray that you may escape all these things coming on ALL those who dwell on the face of the whole earth
And when He does return, Heaven and earth will pass away, Christ's return is the literal LAST DAY, His elect caught up into the clouds, destruction of the world and heavens by fire, the resurrection of the dead, and the judgement.
And afterwards new heaven and new earth in which dwells righteousness, no more evil taint left over from the old creation.

The Coming of the Son of Man​

25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

The Importance of Watching​

34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with [h]carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may [i]be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

37 And in the daytime He was teaching in the temple, but at night He went out and stayed on the mountain called Olivet. 38 Then early in the morning all the people came to Him in the temple to hear Him.

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul teaching on that day of the return of Christ 1 Thess 4

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming​

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Day of Christ is the return of Christ, and the Last Day, and for the elect whom He chose, God has shortened these days leading to the last Day. Christ raises everyone up on the Last Day, and His words judge them on the Last Day. And the dead in Christ shall rise first ( The Resurrection). Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up into the clouds to be with the Lord. The elect God has chosen from the beginning of time to be His, just as Ephesians describes.​

​

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John 6:39​

This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.​

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John 6:40​

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”​

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John 6:44​

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.​

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John 6:54​

Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.​

​

John 11:24​

Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”​

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John 12:48​

He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.​

​

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2 Thessalonians 2​

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​

The Great Apostasy​

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Stand Fast​

13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.

 

[David in NJ]

"Pre-trib" is wrong. But don't misunderstand, so is "post" or "mid" trib. It is the whole of scripture that supports this--showing that tribulations began at the beginning, are part of every life, and do not stop until the end. On the contrary, most missed it, but Paul stated it correctly, saying, "but each one (individual person) in his own order."

But you refer to "great tribulation", which specifically is supported by John 16:33: "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” --Every tribulation--all tribulation, that was placed upon Christ, is that "great tribulation." There is no greater tribulation than all tribulation.

Tribulation BEGAN in Genesis chapter 3

It is IMPOSSIBLE to escape tribulation because SIN is TRIBULATION and sin is in the world and in us.

There is no sin in CHRIST and never was.
Only in CHRIST is there Peace for the troubled(tribulation) wearied soul.

Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

 

[rebuilder 454]

[Mat 24:29-31 NASB95] 29 "But immediately after THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.​

you just posted that angels will gather in heaven after the tribulation.

I also believe that after the tribulation angels will gather the elect that are in heaven and we will all assemble on the white horses to come back down to earth.
So you basically, without understanding what was said, are telling me, that the pre tribulation rapture, has already happened, and the Saints (ALREADY IN HEAVEN AS YOU ARE AFFIRMING), are gathered IN HEAVEN, by ANGELS, to assemble at the white horses of revelation 19.
That cannot be the rapture.
In the rapture, Jesus gathers the bride that is on earth, and they go up and meet him in the air, and then they arrive in heaven with Jesus. Jesus spoke of this at the Last Supper.
So maybe you can take a look at the Last Supper and the dialogue of Jesus come and you'll be amazed at how wrong that post tribulation rapture workbook is

 

[rebuilder 454]

[Mat 24:29-31 NASB95] 29 "But immediately after THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.​

Yes.
Glad you are again affirming that the rapture is pre tribulation, and then AFTER THE tribulation, the saints already in heaven, are assembled in heaven.
I also defend the pre tribulation rapture as you just did.
Thanks!