Chuck Missler Proves The Pre-Trib Rapture

[rebuilder 454]

Well Good Morning to you also...........................lolx100 on the "forbidden" comment

The virgin parable
Acts ch 1
Matt 24 "before the flood"
The last supper dialogue
Rev 14 First fruits and subsequent main harvest.
All pioneered by me,
.
All unpacked and discovered by me.

That is what is called investigation prior to understanding.
What you have demonstrated, is no investigation prior to condemnation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Post tribulation rapture workbook is age-old dusty talking points.
They haven't had the study that it takes to connect the dots.
Thus, their doctrine, is a doctrine of omission.
The verses that we bring to the table, is stuff they cannot deal with.
they've never heard it, and it seems to kinda panic them into just throwing anything at it in a panic, without any testing.
So in a sense they are forbidden from areas of the Bible, by their doctrine.
Guaranteed to bring error

 

[rebuilder 454]

8- MISSLER'S TWIST
"This idea [pre-trib] is not a new idea. You can find these ideas in...Joseph Mede in 1660...."

THE TRUTH
Three eminent prophecy experts, Alexander Reese, in The Approaching Advent of Christ, George Eldon Ladd in The Blessed Hope, and James Graham in Watchman What Of The Night, all state that without doubt, Joseph Mede was a pre-millennial Post-Tribulationist.

9- MISSLER'S TWIST
"Specific dates were predicted by...William Whiston in 1715...."

THE TRUTH
William Whiston was an historian who believed the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 were 1260 years. Whiston's suggested return of Christ was based on his belief that Christ would return for his church AFTER the 1,260 day/year tribulation. "It is obvious...no idea of a pre-tribulation rapture could be possible, for in this interpretation the period of tribulation was not 1,260 days but 1,260 years." (The Blessed Hope, George Eldon Ladd, page 331)

10- MISSLER'S TWIST
"It started in the first century...CT Russell declared 1874 as the definite date."

THE TRUTH
Charles Taze Russell never embraced the pre-trib rapture, which all admit had begun to be propagated by this time. He did predict the return of Christ on certain dates. Russell wrote "Some wrongfully expect a literal fulfillment of the symbolic statements of the Bible. Such hope to see the glorified Jesus coming seated on a white cloud where every human eye will see him...Since no earthly men have ever seen the Father...neither will they see the glorified Son." (CT Russell, From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, page 185)

Obviously, if he didn't believe Christ would physically return at all, Russell couldn't very well assert a secret rapture preceding a physical return 7 years later. Although his foolish followers were once known as the Darby Bible Students, later the group became known by their current name, The Jehovah's Witnesses. Incedible as it may sound, Chuck Missler is apparently so desperate for evidence to scratch his hapless listeners' itching ears, he is actually trying to use the founder of the Non-Christian Jehovah's Witnesses Cult to support the pre-tribulation rapture fallacy. The dog has indeed returned to his own vomit.

11- MISSLER'S TWIST
"One of the most prolific writers...is a person by the name of Ephraem the Syrian...they discovered a manuscript...in which one of his sermons called On The Last Times, Antichrist, and The End Of The World...you find this phrase - 'For all the saints and elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come that are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins'...it reveals the fact [the Pre-Trib doctrine] was held in the very early times."

THE TRUTH
First, while Ephraem the Syrian was indeed a noteworthy 4th century figure, the quote Missler is citing was not written by Ephraem! It comes from a document that is a known forgery that historians universally identify as Pseudo-Ephraem. Incredibly, Missler conveniently forgot to mention that "minor" detail.8 Pseudo-Ephraem is placed somewhere between the 4th and the 7th centuries.

Second, a balanced reading of the entire text of Pseudo-Ephraem clearly shows the writer (whoever he was), as well as the real Ephraem, were actually both post-tribulationists! Because of other statements in the document that I will shortly cite, it becomes clear that the "...Christians are 'gathered' away from the wicked in earthly settings before the tribulation and then are 'taken' closer to the Lord when the tribulation intensifies."9

One of the world's leading scholars on Pseudo-Ephraem, a writer named Paul Alexander, shows how the phrasing had a non-rapture meaning to the Eastern Orthodox readers of Pseudo-Ephraem's period. Alexander writes that the phrase "taken to the Lord really means 'participate at least in some measure in beatitude.'"10 Professor Robert Gundry writes "To what might a being gathered and taken to the Lord that is going on right now refer? Answer: to being evangelistically gathered and taken to the Lord in Christian conversion...compare the American evangelical lingo of 'bringing people to Christ.'"11

Furthermore, in Section 2, the author of Pseudo-Ephraem writes "...there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one...."12

This straightforward statement clearly contradicts a pre-trib understanding of Missler's quote, for Pseudo-Ephraem obviously expects the Antichrist to be revealed before any rapture.

In Section 4 of Pseudo-Ephraem, concerning the tribulation period, we see "In those days people will not be buried, neither Christian, nor heretic...."13 Apparently, Pseudo-Ephraem also sees Christians in the tribulation in this verse.

Section 10 of Pseudo-Ephraem describes Christ's return in conjunction with "...the angelic trumpet [that] precedes Him...." The passage then says this


FOOTNOTES:

1. The 70 Weeks of Daniel Audio, Chuck Missler, 1991, Koinonia House, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

2. ibid.

3. ibid.

4. The Feasts of Israel Audio, Chuck Missler, 1993, Koinonia House, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

5. Steeling The Mind of America - Rapture: Who, What, When, Where and How, Chuck Missler, 1996, Compass International, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

6. Feasts Of Israel, Missler

7. Steeling The Mind, Missler

8. ibid.



-- James

instead of all of that, look at the total impossibility of anything but a pre tribulation rapture.

Unpack these truths for us;
1) all post tribbers say there is only 1 coming. Now keep in mind that they absolutely must believe that, and they absolutely must change anything to the contrary, and the Bible itself proves that they are completely wrong.
2) watch any post Triber unpack the parable of the 10 virgins.
watch what they do with the components.
Some post tribbers will only change one component, but many of them change between 3 and 5 components in the parable to make it fit a post tribulation rapture.
3) take a look at revelation 14, and get a post Triber to unpack revelation 14.
4) watch a post Trib
try to deal with the two escape verses. Jesus said to pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of man. Jesus said because you have kept the words of my testimony I will also keep you from the trial that is about to come upon the whole earth.
5) Jesus said that Jerusalem shall Be trodden down by the gentiles, until the time of the gentiles is complete. Now what in the world does a post Trib workbook have to say about that?
6) the tribulation. Is called jacob's trouble, or israel's trouble. We see in Romans 9, 10 and 11, that the Jews have been cut off for a season, and that the gentile church is grafted in, but God says he will reestablish his people in covenant. Now there again, what in the world does the post tribulation rapture workbook have to say about that? Because they put that whole concept in a blender, and give their students this blenderized mishmash that doesn't even examine all the things that I just pointed out.

 

[rebuilder 454]

8- MISSLER'S TWIST
"This idea [pre-trib] is not a new idea. You can find these ideas in...Joseph Mede in 1660...."

THE TRUTH
Three eminent prophecy experts, Alexander Reese, in The Approaching Advent of Christ, George Eldon Ladd in The Blessed Hope, and James Graham in Watchman What Of The Night, all state that without doubt, Joseph Mede was a pre-millennial Post-Tribulationist.

9- MISSLER'S TWIST
"Specific dates were predicted by...William Whiston in 1715...."

THE TRUTH
William Whiston was an historian who believed the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 were 1260 years. Whiston's suggested return of Christ was based on his belief that Christ would return for his church AFTER the 1,260 day/year tribulation. "It is obvious...no idea of a pre-tribulation rapture could be possible, for in this interpretation the period of tribulation was not 1,260 days but 1,260 years." (The Blessed Hope, George Eldon Ladd, page 331)

10- MISSLER'S TWIST
"It started in the first century...CT Russell declared 1874 as the definite date."

THE TRUTH
Charles Taze Russell never embraced the pre-trib rapture, which all admit had begun to be propagated by this time. He did predict the return of Christ on certain dates. Russell wrote "Some wrongfully expect a literal fulfillment of the symbolic statements of the Bible. Such hope to see the glorified Jesus coming seated on a white cloud where every human eye will see him...Since no earthly men have ever seen the Father...neither will they see the glorified Son." (CT Russell, From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, page 185)

Obviously, if he didn't believe Christ would physically return at all, Russell couldn't very well assert a secret rapture preceding a physical return 7 years later. Although his foolish followers were once known as the Darby Bible Students, later the group became known by their current name, The Jehovah's Witnesses. Incedible as it may sound, Chuck Missler is apparently so desperate for evidence to scratch his hapless listeners' itching ears, he is actually trying to use the founder of the Non-Christian Jehovah's Witnesses Cult to support the pre-tribulation rapture fallacy. The dog has indeed returned to his own vomit.

11- MISSLER'S TWIST
"One of the most prolific writers...is a person by the name of Ephraem the Syrian...they discovered a manuscript...in which one of his sermons called On The Last Times, Antichrist, and The End Of The World...you find this phrase - 'For all the saints and elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come that are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins'...it reveals the fact [the Pre-Trib doctrine] was held in the very early times."

THE TRUTH
First, while Ephraem the Syrian was indeed a noteworthy 4th century figure, the quote Missler is citing was not written by Ephraem! It comes from a document that is a known forgery that historians universally identify as Pseudo-Ephraem. Incredibly, Missler conveniently forgot to mention that "minor" detail.8 Pseudo-Ephraem is placed somewhere between the 4th and the 7th centuries.

Second, a balanced reading of the entire text of Pseudo-Ephraem clearly shows the writer (whoever he was), as well as the real Ephraem, were actually both post-tribulationists! Because of other statements in the document that I will shortly cite, it becomes clear that the "...Christians are 'gathered' away from the wicked in earthly settings before the tribulation and then are 'taken' closer to the Lord when the tribulation intensifies."9

One of the world's leading scholars on Pseudo-Ephraem, a writer named Paul Alexander, shows how the phrasing had a non-rapture meaning to the Eastern Orthodox readers of Pseudo-Ephraem's period. Alexander writes that the phrase "taken to the Lord really means 'participate at least in some measure in beatitude.'"10 Professor Robert Gundry writes "To what might a being gathered and taken to the Lord that is going on right now refer? Answer: to being evangelistically gathered and taken to the Lord in Christian conversion...compare the American evangelical lingo of 'bringing people to Christ.'"11

Furthermore, in Section 2, the author of Pseudo-Ephraem writes "...there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one...."12

This straightforward statement clearly contradicts a pre-trib understanding of Missler's quote, for Pseudo-Ephraem obviously expects the Antichrist to be revealed before any rapture.

In Section 4 of Pseudo-Ephraem, concerning the tribulation period, we see "In those days people will not be buried, neither Christian, nor heretic...."13 Apparently, Pseudo-Ephraem also sees Christians in the tribulation in this verse.

Section 10 of Pseudo-Ephraem describes Christ's return in conjunction with "...the angelic trumpet [that] precedes Him...." The passage then says this trumpet, which sounds identical to Paul's last trump of 1 Cor 15:52 & 1 Thes 4:16 "will sound and declare 'Arise, O sleeping ones, arise, meet Christ, because his hour of judgment has come! Then Christ will come and the enemy will be thrown into confusion, and the Lord will destroy him by the spirit of His mouth...."14 This is a very clear description of the post-tribulational resurrection of the church in conjunction with the destruction of the Antichrist.

It's worth noting that in addition to Pseudo-Ephraem's plain statement that "...there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one,"15 the Real Ephraem The Syrian wrote concerning his personal prophetic expectation that "Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our enemy, Antichrist, appear...."16

Chuck Missler's willingness to utilize a notorious cult leader's quotes (CT Russell of The Jehovah Witnesses) in addition to a known forgery which he represents as the genuine article (claiming it was written by Ephraem instead of Pseudo-Ephraem), is not his last effort at scraping the bottom of the barrel in his attempt to prop up his unscriptural doctrine. It gets worse.

In Colorado in late 1996 at something called the Steeling The Mind Conference (they apparently missed the letter A in steeling), Missler was the featured speaker promoting the pre-trib rapture. In addition to the fact that during his hour presentation he repeatedly lied with the quotations listed above, he read only a total of 4 Bible verses. The majority of his arguments were drawn from citations in the Babylonian Talmud, and what he termed "kabbalistic considerations" which he admitted he found "intriguing."17

For those that are unfamiliar with these works, the Babylonian Talmud and the Jewish Kabbalah are a series of dark writings that are deeply associated with Black Magic, Freemasonry, Gnosticism, Jewish Traditions, and multiple forms of occultic spiritism. He might as well have been citing from Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible! I suppose the cult will now accuse me of being anti-Semitic since I've denounced the Jewish Kabbalah. Once again, every word of this is on tape and is available from Chuck Missler's own ministry.


FOOTNOTES:

1. The 70 Weeks of Daniel Audio, Chuck Missler, 1991, Koinonia House, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

2. ibid.

3. ibid.

4. The Feasts of Israel Audio, Chuck Missler, 1993, Koinonia House, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

5. Steeling The Mind of America - Rapture: Who, What, When, Where and How, Chuck Missler, 1996, Compass International, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

6. Feasts Of Israel, Missler

7. Steeling The Mind, Missler

8. ibid.

9. Quoted from MacPherson, The Rapture Plot, pages 270-271

10. Paul J Alexander, The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition, page 210; cited by MacPherson, The Rapture Plot, page 272.

11. Robert Gundry, First The Antichrist,: Why Christ Won't Come Before The Antichrist Does, Baker Books, page 176

12. Pseudo-Ephraem, On The Last Times, The Antichrist, And The End Of The World, Section 2; cited by MacPherson, The Late Great Hal Lindsey, page 85

13. Pseudo-Ephraem, On The Last Times, cited by Gundry, First The Antichrist, Postscript, Pseudo-Ephraem on Pre-trib Preparation for a Post-trib Meeting with the Lord, page 164

14. Pseudo-Ephraem, Section 2, cited by Gundry, First The Antichrist, page 169

15. Pseudo-Ephraem, Section 2, cited by MacPherson, Late Great Hal Lindsey, page 85

16. Ephraem The Syrian, Sermo asceticus 1; cited by MacPherson, Late Great, page 85

17. Steeling The Mind of America - Rapture: Who, What, When, Where and How, Chuck Missler, 1996, Compass International, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

-- James

we will note that every time Missler speaks, he tells the audience at least 10 or 20 times to do their own research and that he is there only to pique their interest and study.

I find it so amazing that post Tribers rely on the ancient dead men of the past for their doctrine, lol, and they have not even a single verse to support their theory, that supposedly these dead men taught them. Oh so rich!!!!!
Then they harass someone that gets into their pseudo theory territory. What a hoot!!!!!!

 

[David in NJ]

The virgin parable
Acts ch 1
Matt 24 "before the flood"
The last supper dialogue
Rev 14 First fruits and subsequent main harvest.
All pioneered by me,
.
All unpacked and discovered by me.

That is what is called investigation prior to understanding.
What you have demonstrated, is no investigation prior to condemnation.

#1 - the virgin parable is His Second Coming = no saints are left behind, only the mouth professing/unbelieving

#2 - Acts chapter 1 is REPEATING PROPHECY from Matthew 24:29-31 = "Coming on/in the clouds just as HE prophesied"

#3 - the last supper dialogue POINTS to Tribulation and then Redemption/Resurrection

#4 - First Fruits are those in CHRIST whereby CHRIST is the FIRSTFRUIT unto God and ENTIRE Body of Saints are GATHERED
at His Second Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = 1 Corinthians ch15 = GOSPEL

#5 - "me-me-me" is the PROBLEM with modern day Laodicean christians that cause division in the body with 'pre-trib'

#6 - JESUS demonstrated the WAY which is POST-TRIB Redemption/Resurrection/Second Coming

#7 - Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation chapter 22

 

[rebuilder 454]

Thanks my excellent posttribbers ...I needed that!

 

[rebuilder 454]

#1 - the virgin parable is His Second Coming = no saints are left behind, only the mouth professing/unbelieving

#2 - Acts chapter 1 is REPEATING PROPHECY from Matthew 24:29-31 = "Coming on/in the clouds just as HE prophesied"

#3 - the last supper dialogue POINTS to Tribulation and then Redemption/Resurrection

#4 - First Fruits are those in CHRIST whereby CHRIST is the FIRSTFRUIT unto God and ENTIRE Body of Saints are GATHERED
at His Second Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = 1 Corinthians ch15 = GOSPEL

#5 - "me-me-me" is the PROBLEM with modern day Laodicean christians that cause division in the body with 'pre-trib'

#6 - JESUS demonstrated the WAY which is POST-TRIB Redemption/Resurrection/Second Coming

#7 - Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation chapter 22

thank you for that example. You just labeled the five foolish virgins as non virgins. You attached wicked people to those that have the Holy Spirit, light, purity, obedience, and are waiting on Jesus.

Shrug, I know you had to, and that you will continue to do so.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Ok that's fine. But you went through a big diatribe about how sinful a pre trib view is and I don't want to sin and am trying to keep up with you on this...and I don't know what kind of sin it might be. What sin is it?! Murder, no. False witness? No. Stealing? No. SO what is sinful about me watching for the Lord tonight when you Know He isnt coming until tomorrow!

You wrote a treatise on how sinful it is and I you never said what sin? SO tell me and don't go off on a tangent. What. Sin. Is. It?

About 1/3 of the time he doesn't do that.
But he does it 2/3 of the time, and so when he does do a couple of things right, he looks pretty good.

Note to all the post tribbers that are in the room. The personal attack thingy is straight out of Sal Alinsky's rules for radicals. That book, in the preface, is dedicated to Lucifer, and it's a communist guide.

 

[David in NJ]

thank you for that example. You just labeled the five foolish virgins as non virgins. You attached wicked people to those that have the Holy Spirit, light, purity, obedience, and are waiting on Jesus.

Shrug, I know you had to, and that you will continue to do so.

JESUS judged the 'five foolish' and they were cast out by JESUS

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

 

[Scott Downey]

Another clue to the rapture as post trib.

Rev 13 and 14 we see the beast come into the world, with his false prophet, antichrist and all the associated events.

We know when Christ returns believers are caught up to be with Him in the air.
The dead in the Lord are raised first.
Christ has always taught that His return comes suddenly as a thief in the night, I think all Christians believe that.

And as Rev 16 says and it is the testimony of Christ to the churches,

Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up​

12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings [g]of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, [h]Armageddon.

As you can read, Christ has not yet returned for the church

 

[Scott Downey]

When we are 'raptured' it is the Last Day, the dead in Christ rise first, this the Resurrection, as 1 Thess 4 and 5 says.
If it's the Last Day, then there are no more days left for the earth and heaven, the old creation is consumed by the fire of God
1 Thess 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thess 5
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore [b]comfort each other and [c]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

 

[David in NJ]

About 1/3 of the time he doesn't do that.
But he does it 2/3 of the time, and so when he does do a couple of things right, he looks pretty good.

Note to all the post tribbers that are in the room. The personal attack thingy is straight out of Sal Alinsky's rules for radicals. That book, in the preface, is dedicated to Lucifer, and it's a communist guide.

The personal attack

What "personal attack" ???

JESUS says, if you add to His words or take away from them you commit sin!
This applies to EVERYONE

Do yo believe JESUS or not???

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul is saying these events and Christs returning occur with the church still around
As did Christ warn us to be watching and waiting.
Christians will be alive on the earth at this time.
Caught up to be with Christ for His people, then a sudden destruction for the others.
And have you thought why we are caught up, we will not be on the earth during the sudden destruction by fire, we will be above all of it, yet will see it. We are separated from the sudden destruction, that is why we are caught up to be with the Lord


3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober.

 

[ScottA]

Review what Christ says, not all flesh and blood are killed during the great tribulation, God shortens the days for the sake of the elect whom He chose. So that means some elect believers live to see Christ's return and with that scriptures do agree in various places
Since he is speaking of His elect people, v26 certainly includes some of them seeing His returning.
Christ tells His people at that to take heed, watch and pray. Why would Christ say that if no one remains, left alive till His returning?

The Great Tribulation​

14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ [f]spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the [g]elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

No One Knows the Day or Hour​

32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

All of Mat 24:21 is a riddle, defining the time of tribulation as from the beginning all the way to the end without actually saying it (which was to remain under restraint until the times are fulfilled). This is the result of all language being "confused" by God at Babel.

Read it carefully here in the KJV and see if it does not seem purposely vague:

Mat 24:21​

For G1063 then G5119 shall be G2071 great G3173 tribulation, G2347 such as G3634 was G1096 not G3756 since G575 the beginning G746 of the world G2889 to this G2193 time, G3568 no, G3761 nor ever G3364 shall be. G1096​

Tools​

Mat 24:22​

And G2532 except G1508 those G1565 days G2250 should be shortened, G2856 there G3756 should G302 no G3956 flesh G4561 be saved: G4982 but G1161 for G1223 the elect's sake G1588 those G1565 days G2250 shall be shortened. G2856​

As for the "flesh", the word is defined as referring to what is carnal, not being saved, and "shortened" as mutilated or curtailed-- Simply meaning that no one could be saved if God had not placed a limit on the tribulations placed upon the fallen.

 

[doctrox]

instead of all of that, look at the total impossibility of anything but a pre tribulation rapture.

The OP concerns one Chuck Missler and how he would attempt to prove his pre-trib theory. Please stick to the OP's parameters.

Unpack these truths for us./..

If you want to showcase what scripture has to say about it, you'll need to actually go to the scripture itself. But again, this is about Missler's credibility and thus his machinations in selling the pre-trib theory.

will note that every time Missler speaks, he tells the audience at least 10 or 20 times to do their own research and that he is there only to pique their interest and study.

...and that makes Missler right??? Such patronization of Missler's audiences is a well-understood tactic of deception. Also, I just did the research and Missler has been exposed as a liar by his own words.

I find it so amazing that post Tribers rely on the ancient dead men of the past for their doctrine, lol

Rather, that is precisely what I just documented for you concerning what Missler has done. So now you're calling the kettle black.

rebuilder 454, this (pre-trib rapture theory) is obviously a hot button for you. Check yourself, and come back here with honesty, humility and on-point comment. Godspeed, brother.

 

[rebuilder 454]

JESUS judged the 'five foolish' and they were cast out by JESUS

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

The church is loaded with Christians that are lukewarm.
it's a huge number.
probably 70% of the church is lukewarm.
Jesus said in the seven letter to the seven churches he would spew them out of his mouth.
Over in 1st Corinthians it talks about Christians that have no good works.
all their works are wood, hay, and stubble .
in other words they're lukewarm and foolish .
God says they're still my Covenant people.
Because it says some are "saved as Through Fire", they are saved, but their works are burned up.
Maybe you can start looking at the word of God and get some understanding, or maybe you will just keep making things up.
When will you drop false doctrine?
It is as if the bible has no effect on you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The OP concerns one Chuck Missler and how he would attempt to prove his pre-trib theory. Please stick to the OP's parameters.


If you want to showcase what scripture has to say about it, you'll need to actually go to the scripture itself. But again, this is about Missler's credibility and thus his machinations in selling the pre-trib theory.


...and that makes Missler right??? Such patronization of Missler's audiences is a well-understood tactic of deception. Also, I just did the research and Missler has been exposed as a liar by his own words.


Rather, that is precisely what I just documented for you concerning what Missler has done. So now you're calling the kettle black.

rebuilder 454, this (pre-trib rapture theory) is obviously a hot button for you. Check yourself, and come back here with honesty, humility and on-point comment. Godspeed, brother.

Take a concept.
Pick one you disagree with.
Lets go.
Lets get into what the bible says.
Missiler says 10 or 12 times in EVERY TEACHING, " don't take my word for it, do your own research"

He never wanted to convince anyone.
Just showcase bible truths.

 

[David in NJ]

The church is loaded with Christians that are lukewarm.
it's a huge number.
probably 70% of the church is lukewarm.
Jesus said in the seven letter to the seven churches he would spew them out of his mouth.
Over in 1st Corinthians it talks about Christians that have no good works.
all their works are wood, hay, and stubble .
in other words they're lukewarm and foolish .
God says they're still my Covenant people.
Because it says some are "saved as Through Fire", they are saved, but their works are burned up.
Maybe you can start looking at the word of God and get some understanding, or maybe you will just keep making things up.
When will you drop false doctrine?
It is as if the bible has no effect on you.

Jesus said in the seven letter to the seven churches he would spew them out of his mouth.

He did just that with the five foolish

 

[rebuilder 454]

He did just that with the five foolish

Yes.
You just showcased believers being spewed out.
But Jesus instructed how to fix it.
Believers spewed out.
Spewed out ones are born again as are the 5 foolish virgins.
Postribbers are a little slow on this dynamic.
Glad you finally caught on.