22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
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We have been made one with true Israel - the Israel of Israel. We are now the circumcision. We are the chosen people. We are true Israel. We are spiritual Israeli citizens. We are the children of Abraham today. We are the spiritual Jews. We have been grafted into the Olive Tree. We are the children of Israel.
The Apostle declares in Romans 2:25-29: “For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit.”
The Holy Spirit shows the change that occurred under the new covenant where physical circumcision has been superseded by just spiritual circumcision through salvation. To admit this would force you to change your theology. But the change is so clear and indisputable. Your rebuttal is just you repeating your own opinions - as if that is a valid argument. It is not. That seems to be a pattern in your posts. Scripture overrides your speculations.
Romans 2:25-29 is quite powerful in that it changes the nature and scope of what a real Jew (the “circumcision”) and a real Gentile (the “uncircumcision”) are in God’s eyes. God takes these common natural terms and spiritualises them, and in doing so redefines the whole argument of true identity.
Throughout the New Testament, the natural ethnic title “uncircumcision” (normally used to describe a Gentile) is amazingly used to describe the unbelieving Jew. Also, the natural ethnic title “circumcision” (normally used to describe a natural Jew) is amazingly used to describe the believing Gentile. This would have been anathema to the unbelieving Jews of Paul’s day. It would have been the greatest insult to a Jew.
He is comparing those that are spiritually circumcised (representing all believers – both Jew and Gentile) to those that are spiritually non-circumcised (representing unbelievers – both Jew and Gentile). This is essentially a saved or lost issue, which keeps coming up repeatedly in Scripture. That is the only 2 peoples in this world, not Jew or Gentile.
Hebrews 10:15-17
King James Version
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews 10&version=KJV
That's all you get out of Jer 31.
Be glad. You're lucky to get included in that as the saints here realized.
One question.
Who are the highlighted folks?
How can there be another covenant? The one that Christ introduced is everlasting! It is enough for genuine believers (Jews and Gentiles). We do not need another covenant. Are you trying to supersede the new covenant with a new new covenant and a fresh cross? This is utter folly. It is blasphemy and heresy rolled into one. Is the cross not enough for you. Is Christ not enough? Is His blood not enough?
Nope, only this one...
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
You know, they are the beloved of God.
This is the only covenant...
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
This is not for national Israel. Not all of national Israel will be saved. This applies to spiritual Israel. Have you never read this:
Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
In this passage Paul contrasted spiritual Israel (the Israel of God) with national Israel. He indicated that not all who are naturally descended from national Israel are part of spiritual Israel. It's only those who are the children of the promise who are counted as God's children and regarded as Abraham's seed/offspring. Galatians 3:26-29 indicates that all believers who belong to Christ, Jew and Gentile, are included among the children of the promise who are Abraham's seed and God's children.
So, the only Israel of which all are saved is spiritual Israel, not national Israel. And all spiritual Israel are saved by way of the new covenant that was established long ago by the blood of Christ. In Romans 11:25-27, Paul was referencing an Old Testament prophecy that has its ongoing fulfillment during the New Testament era during which people's sins are taken away when the put their faith in Christ.
There is only one covenant by which anyone, Jew or Gentile, can be saved and that is the new covenant. Do you agree?
Acts 2:38 is the way to be included in this future covenant....
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
That is the key to get in.
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
That is the key to get in.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Only the election/believers are beloved of God. The unbelievers "are enemies for your sakes".
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
These beloved enemies are not all going to be saved???
Is this about you as a beloved enemy or something?
The Bible.
Sinners are still under the Law.
The only way out is to obey Acts 2:38.
The rest stay under the schoolmaster.
You are blind to what this means. Sad!
Can I remind you, the deliver has already come two thousand years ago as Savior? Those who have eyes to see know that. The next time He comes will be as judge. It will be the end. There will be no second chance. This is Israel's day and the Gentiles day. There is no other day of salvation.
Read it carefully...
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Agree yet?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Wow. Your lack of discernment is truly unbelievable. Beloved enemies?!! Are you kidding me? God's enemies are not beloved. Have you never read Matthew 23? People like the Pharisees and scribes were God's enemies. Does it look to you like they were beloved when Jesus called them hypocrites and snakes? Come on. You're not even thinking.
It is the election that are beloved while the rest are enemies. All you needed to do in order to understand what Romans 11:28 is saying is to go back earlier in the chapter and read this:
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
In Romans 11:28, "the election" which are "beloved" are the "remnant according to the election of grace" who are saved. It is "the rest" who "were blinded" that are the "enemies for your sakes" who "hath not obtained that which" they "seeketh for".
How can they be forgiven if their sin was not fully atoned for? You are blind to that. You deny the finished work. You deny the atoning blood of Jesus.
He is coming to rescue His elect and He is coming to destroy the wicked. There is no time for your imaginary third covenant.
Paul underlines in Romans 11:28: “As concerning the gospel, they (Christ-rejecting Jews) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election (God’s people), they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.”
There are 2 types of Jew in view here.
No one could argue that all natural Israelis are “enemies” as “concerning the gospel.” After all, many have gladly embraced Christ over this past 2,000 years, because of this they are intimately loved of the Father. They are not enemies of God, but rather friends. This fits Paul’s ongoing comparison between those who are loved by God amongst his kinsmen, and those who are enemies. These two distinct groups operate under two antithetical banners: “enemies” and “the election.” The enemies are the general Christ-rejecting populace of natural Israel. The election are the believers.
Scottish pastor Eric J Alexander very powerfully submits: “How can God reject the people whom He foreknew? You can no more imagine God saying those whom He foreknew He later rejected than you can imagine Him saying those whom He predestined He later rejected. These are unbreakable chains!” Basically, Paul is demonstrating that God doesn’t turn His back on His elect.
It is difficult to know, and foolish to speculate, too what amount of natural Jews in this day and at the end will come through for Christ. However, whether Scripture indicates the whole nation, the majority of natural Jews or a small remnant of natural Israelites will be saved is largely God’s prerogative. Notwithstanding, it is sufficient to settle upon the trust of the great chief Shepherd.
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