22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

Fully implemented? Where does it ever say it would only be partially implemented? You have so little discernment that you can't even discern that the new covenant established by the blood of Christ was not fully implmented by His blood long ago. It's too late for the new covenant to save "every last person of Israel and Judah". It was established long ago and many people of Israel and Judah died since then without being saved, so that can't be taken literally to be saying it would save all of them.

I asked him that very same thing and (surprise, surprise) he avoided it. He makes it up as he goes. He prefers his own truth to biblical truth. That is why he incapable exgeting any passage. That would take time, understanding and wisdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Blue Oyster Cult?

Trump Cult?

Which cult?

You tell me what your cult is called. I can't know unless you reveal that.

 

[Truther]

Why do you waste your time promoting something that will never happen? This is all fanciful. It is of your own imagination. The fact that you are changing your mind on the meaning of these animal sacrifices in this last few days shows that you do not even know what you believe about them. The whole thing is a fallacy. Not only will there not be a future millennium saturated with sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying, corruption and decay, as your theology teaches, there will never be a restarting of the abolished old covenant ceremonial system. The fact is: the New Testament forbids your desire for rival and pointless blood atonements for sin for anyone - past, present or future. By what you espouse you fight New Testament Scripture, you trample over the blood of Christ, you supersede the new covenant with a failed abolished system, you undo the eternal victory of the cross. This is strong grounds to reject your error.

Christ ushered in an everlasting covenant through His sinless life, His atoning death, His victorious resurrection and His glorious heavenly mediatory work in glory. Scripture shows that the old temporal covenant was not only removed but was replaced with a new eternal covenant. We are not living in a spiritual void now, having to bear our own guilt and shame, as you would suggest. Christ paid the cost in full and applied the benefits of the same to us through the regenerating power of His Spirit.

Jeremiah first prophesied the coming and character of the new covenant, in Jeremiah 31:31-33, saying, “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Jeremiah continues in the next verse, saying, “And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more” (Jeremiah 31:34).

The writer of the Hebrews addresses this passage directly, quoting it and applying it to Christ and His atoning work at Calvary. The animal sacrifices were done away forever. Hebrews 10:4-12 explains, “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”

The old covenant with its unsatisfactory imperfect animal sacrifices have now been replaced by the new covenant with its one individual all-sufficient perfect eternal sacrifice. Paul outlines an important New Testament principle in 1 Corinthians 15:46, which is evident in every aspect of God’s plan and purpose with mankind, “that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.”

Hebrews 7:19-22 declares, “For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.”

Hebrews 8:6-8 says, of Christ and His vicarious atonement, “now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry (than those exercised by the Old Testament priests with their imperfect sacrifices), by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant.”

The writer of the Hebrews then quotes Jeremiah 31, thus demonstrating its actual fulfilment.

Hebrews 8:13 continues, “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away”

Not long after this epistle was written, the temple with its inbuilt sacrifices was finally destroyed. With the destruction of the temple of few years later in AD 70, the temple sacrifices vanished forever.

Are you Israel, Judah?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

post the verses please

Do you not have a Bible? Also, I had already quoted them earlier. But, since you are lazy, here they are again:

Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

 

[Truther]

I asked him that and (surprise, surprise) he avoided it. He makes it up as he goes. He prefers his own truth to biblical truth. That is why he incapable exgeting any passage. That would take time, understanding and wisdom.

Wait, I posted the passage in 1 Cor 13 that says we use PARTIAL gifts and vaguely see the covenant fulfilled(dark glass).

Did you even read it?

 

[WPM]

Let's do this!

Let the readers decide if God lied to the fathers or told the truth.

Let's see if the covenant of Jer 31 is fully implemented now, and God was kidding about saving every last person of Israel and Judah.

Stop your avoidance! You obviously have a lot to hide.

Where in Scripture does it teach "...and y'all don't try to say there is a little covenant now and another big one on the way...LOL

What are "a little covenant now and another big one on the way"? What are you talking about?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I asked him that very same thing and (surprise, surprise) he avoided it. He makes it up as he goes. He prefers his own truth to biblical truth. That is why he incapable exgeting any passage. That would take time, understanding and wisdom.

Yep. They clown around repeatedly to hide the fact that they are completely incapable of making coherent arguments to support their beliefs.

 

[Truther]

Do you not have a Bible? Also, I had already quoted them earlier. But, since you are lazy, here they are:

Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Right, the promise to the fathers for their descendants per Jer 31 etc, are the better covenant, not the OT Law.

This is what we are partially included in now.

Be thankful you even get that much. The righteious are scarecely saved.

 

[WPM]

Wait, I posted the passage in 1 Cor 13 that says we use PARTIAL gifts and vaguely see the covenant fulfilled(dark glass).

Did you even read it?

And when does that come to an end?

 

[Truther]

Stop your avoidance! You obviously have a lot to hide.

Where in Scripture does it teach "...and y'all don't try to say there is a little covenant now and another big one on the way...LOL

What are "a little covenant now and another big one on the way"? What are you talking about?

Since you have this...

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Which is not about you at all.

Who are you and where do you come in?

Another covenant, maybe?

Gentile.

 

[Truther]

And when does that come to an end?

Here....


10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away....

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Truther]

You tell me what your cult is called. I can't know unless you reveal that.

The Acts 2:38 cult.

 

[WPM]

Right, the promise to the fathers for their descendants per Jer 31 etc, are the better covenant, not the OT Law.

This is what we are partially included in now.

Be thankful you even get that much. The righteious are scarecely saved.

Stop avoiding!

Where in the Holy Scripture does it teach "we are partially included in [the new covenant] now"?

 

[WPM]

Here....


10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away....

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

When is that? You cannot even say. You have a lot to conceal. You have tied yourself in knots today. LOL.

It is fun to watch.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right, the promise to the fathers for their descendants per Jer 31 etc, are the better covenant, not the OT Law.

This is what we are partially included in now.

Be thankful you even get that much. The righteious are scarecely saved.

The better covenant is the new covenant which replaced the inferior old covenant and is the covenant described in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and quoted in Hebrews 8:8-12.

 

[WPM]

Who are these fellers?....


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


The Jer 31 bunch?

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

 

[Truther]

That is a lie. I take the following very literally:

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

This literally says that the seed that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed is Christ. Do you take that literally?

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This literally says that if we belong to Christ then we are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Do you take that literally?

Included in this wonderful covenant to future national Israel?...


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Or, do you guys have your own little covenant with God goin' on that we need to know about?

 

[Truther]

The better covenant is the new covenant which replaced the inferior old covenant and is the covenant described in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and quoted in Hebrews 8:8-12.

Only for those that obey Acts 2:38 and walk in the Spirit.

 

[Truther]

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

Only for the saints, not sinners.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since you have this...

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Which is not about you at all.

Who are you and where do you come in?

Another covenant, maybe?

Gentile.

There is more than one covenant by which God takes away sins? Where is that taught in scripture? It isn't. Only the new covenant, which the Old Testament prophecy Paul referenced was alluding to, can take away sins. It mentions Jacob/Israel specifically, but we know that Gentile believers are included in the new covenant as well.