22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[St. Joseph]

Exactly.

Not nearly all of Jer 31 has not happened yet.

True. But most people dont study in old testament.

 

[WPM]

These guys are denying fundamental truths of Christianity. Very disturbing stuff. But, also very easily refuted.

Bro, they are doing more to promote Amil on this board than we are. Honestly. This is utter folly. Let them continue to dig a deep hole for themselves. Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. This is fantasy land. Look at how much Scripture they have ducked around. Look at their evidence - it is their own statements. That is it. It is insane!

 

[Truther]

Last time i will acknowledge you. But when did all thse things Joel prophesied take place? The wonders in heaven. Sun turning black. Moon turning to blood. It sure never happened in acts.

...and don't quote from planet preterist...LOL

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, questioning the status quo theology professor.

That the new covenant was established by the blood of Christ is a fundamental Christian truth and you deny it. You come across like you are part of a cult.

 

[Truther]

True. But most people dont study in old testament.

They don't take the OT promises literal at all.

Crazy.

'Hey guys, don't take God too literal, ya know".....LOL

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Bro, they are doing more to promote Amil on this board than we are. Honestly. This is utter folly. Let them continue to dig a deep hole for themselves. Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. This is fantasy land. Look at how much Scripture they have ducked around. Look at their evidence - it is their own statments. That is it. It is insane!

Very true. We shouldn't have any concern that these guys will fool anyone who has even a little bit of discernment.

 

[Truther]

That the new covenant was established by the blood of Christ is a fundamental Christian truth and you deny it. You come across like you are part of a cult.

Blue Oyster Cult?

Trump Cult?

Which cult?

 

[Truther]

Very true. We shouldn't have any concern that these guys will fool anyone who has even a little bit of discernment.

...nor any powerful imaginations.

 

[Truth7t7]

What is the thousand/a thousand years found in Rev 20 symbolic of exactly?

If you cannot give an exact answer, you are a fraud.

The words (Thousand Years) does nothing more than teach, that seen in Revelation 20:4-6 is in the Lord's one day is a thousand years "no literal earthly time it's God's eternal"

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[WPM]

So, do you agree that the finality of the fulfillment is at the coming of Christ per this?...


8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Your imaginary future millennium is not perfect, it is overrun by the wicked as the sand of the sea. Everything you present is error. You live in a fantasy bubble.

 

[Truther]

Bro, they are doing more to promote Amil on this board than we are. Honestly. This is utter folly. Let them continue to dig a deep hole for themselves. Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. This is fantasy land. Look at how much Scripture they have ducked around. Look at their evidence - it is their own statements. That is it. It is insane!

Let's do this!

Let the readers decide if God lied to the fathers or told the truth.

Let's see if the covenant of Jer 31 is fully implemented now, and God was kidding about saving every last person of Israel and Judah.

 

[WPM]

Blue Oyster Cult?

Trump Cult?

Which cult?

You lost the debate a long time ago. Your doctrine is in taters. Give it a decent burial.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They don't take the OT promises literal at all.

Crazy.

'Hey guys, don't take God too literal, ya know".....LOL

That is a lie. I take the following very literally:

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

This literally says that the seed that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed is Christ. Do you take that literally?

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This literally says that if we belong to Christ then we are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Do you take that literally?

 

[Truther]

Your imaginary future millennium is not perfect, it is overrun by the wicked as the sand of the sea. Everything you present is error. You live in a fantasy bubble.

Imagine....


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years....


14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.



I will happen as sure as the nose on your face.

 

[Truther]

That is a lie. I take the following very literally:

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

This literally says that the seed that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed is Christ. Do you take that literally?

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This literally says that if we belong to Christ then we are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Do you take that literally?

Who are these fellers?....


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


The Jer 31 bunch?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let's do this!

Let the readers decide if God lied to the fathers or told the truth.

Let's see if the covenant of Jer 31 is fully implemented now, and God was kidding about saving every last person of Israel and Judah.

Fully implemented? Where does it ever say it would only be partially implemented? You have so little discernment that you can't even discern that the new covenant established by the blood of Christ was fully implemented by His blood long ago. It's too late for the new covenant to save "every last person of Israel and Judah". It was established long ago and many people of Israel and Judah died since then without being saved, so that can't be taken literally to be saying it would save all of them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who are these fellers?....


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


The Jer 31 bunch?

I asked you questions in my post. Is it too much trouble for you to answer them first before I answer yours?

 

[WPM]

Let's do this!

Let the readers decide if God lied to the fathers or told the truth.

Let's see if the covenant of Jer 31 is fully implemented now, and God was kidding about saving every last person of Israel and Judah.

Why do you waste your time promoting something that will never happen? This is all fanciful. It is of your own imagination. The fact that you are changing your mind on the meaning of these animal sacrifices in this last few days shows that you do not even know what you believe about them. The whole thing is a fallacy. Not only will there not be a future millennium saturated with sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying, corruption and decay, as your theology teaches, there will never be a restarting of the abolished old covenant ceremonial system. The fact is: the New Testament forbids your desire for rival and pointless blood atonements for sin for anyone - past, present or future. By what you espouse you fight New Testament Scripture, you trample over the blood of Christ, you supersede the new covenant with a failed abolished system, you undo the eternal victory of the cross. This is strong grounds to reject your error.

Christ ushered in an everlasting covenant through His sinless life, His atoning death, His victorious resurrection and His glorious heavenly mediatory work in glory. Scripture shows that the old temporal covenant was not only removed but was replaced with a new eternal covenant. We are not living in a spiritual void now, having to bear our own guilt and shame, as you would suggest. Christ paid the cost in full and applied the benefits of the same to us through the regenerating power of His Spirit.

Jeremiah first prophesied the coming and character of the new covenant, in Jeremiah 31:31-33, saying, “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Jeremiah continues in the next verse, saying, “And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more” (Jeremiah 31:34).

The writer of the Hebrews addresses this passage directly, quoting it and applying it to Christ and His atoning work at Calvary. The animal sacrifices were done away forever. Hebrews 10:4-12 explains, “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”

The old covenant with its unsatisfactory imperfect animal sacrifices have now been replaced by the new covenant with its one individual all-sufficient perfect eternal sacrifice. Paul outlines an important New Testament principle in 1 Corinthians 15:46, which is evident in every aspect of God’s plan and purpose with mankind, “that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.”

Hebrews 7:19-22 declares, “For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.”

Hebrews 8:6-8 says, of Christ and His vicarious atonement, “now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry (than those exercised by the Old Testament priests with their imperfect sacrifices), by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant.”

The writer of the Hebrews then quotes Jeremiah 31, thus demonstrating its actual fulfilment.

Hebrews 8:13 continues, “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away”

Not long after this epistle was written, the temple with its inbuilt sacrifices was finally destroyed. With the destruction of the temple of few years later in AD 70, the temple sacrifices vanished forever.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus saves Jerusalem per Zech 14 to be safely inhabited at His return, Rome not so lucky.

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom,, Don't Be Deceived

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Truther]

Luke 22:20 and Hebrews 8:6 say that it has. But, I guess you have no regard for the New Testament.

post the verses please