22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh, sorry, the adults are in the room with their PHD's.

LOL

Who said anything about needing PhDs to understand these things? No one. But, we do need spiritual discernment (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). Your hyper-literal approach to interpreting scripture requires no spiritual discernment at all.

 

[St. Joseph]

Congratulations on proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are completely lacking in discernment. Did you not read this:

Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

This was long ago on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was being poured out on people in Jerusalem and Peter quoted Joel 2:28-32 and said regarding what was happening that day: "THIS is THAT which was spoken by the prophet Joel. But you contradict Peter and say "THIS" is NOT "THAT which was spoken by the prophet Joel". Shameful.

When did the sun turn black and the moon to blood? Read joel again.
Acts 2 peter is saying it is like that. Not that actually being fulfilled then.

 

[Truther]

More lies. Why have a Bible when you just rabbit what Scofield taught you. He has deceived you. Let the NT interpret the Old instead of letting your Dispensatanist teachers fool you..

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
You are as misguided as he is.

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven...
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

What a wonderful INCLUSION into the future promise, huh?

 

[Truther]

Who said anything about needing PhDs to understand these things? No one. But, we do need spiritual discernment (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). Your hyper-literal approach to interpreting scripture requires no spiritual discernment at all.

We are the infants and you are the big shot adults, right?

 

[WPM]

The lion has not laid down with the lamb yet as well.

This is a symbol of the peace that comes in Christ. Whether it literally happens on the new earth is up to God. What has this to do with Joel 2 and the last days which began 2000 years.

 

[Truther]

When did the sun turn black and the moon to blood? Read joel again.
Acts 2 peter is saying it is like that. Not that actually being fulfilled then.

It has not been fulfilled.

Per Hebrews 10:15-17, we are only included in the beginning of Peters prophecy quote of Joel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yep.

God can turn anything into anything.

Some folks even think God can make our tangible world but the New Jerusalem city is not tangible.

It's like we live in reality and the afterlife is non-reality.

No faith at all.

Describing real things symbolically doesn't make those thing not real. You are wasting so much time making these straw man arguments. Even those of us who believe the description of the New Jerusalem is symbolic would not say that the new Jerusalem is not real. It is described as being "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9). It symbolizes the church which is a real entity. What else is the bride of Christ/the Lamb? Not a literal city. It's the church. And the church will spend eternity in the new heavens and on the new earth, which also are real entities.

 

[Truther]

This is a symbol of the peace that comes in Christ. Whether it literally happens on the new earth is up to God. What has this to do with Joel 2 and the last days which began 2000 years.

It will happen literally. Have faith in God. He is able.

 

[WPM]

What a wonderful INCLUSION into the future promise, huh?

Hello! Pentecost already happened.

So, you are denying the historic reality of the cross, and now you are denying the historic reality of Pentecost. What next? You need help! I have never seen a poster’s arguments so roundly and quickly exposed and decimated in such a short period of time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It has not been fulfilled.

Per Hebrews 10:15-17, we are only included in the beginning of Peters prophecy quote of Joel.

No one is saying that Joel 2:28-32 is completely fulfilled. But, it began being fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, according to Peter. And it involves the fact that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord is saved. That obviously is still happening.

 

[Truther]

Describing real things symbolically doesn't make those thing not real. You are wasting so much time making these straw man arguments. Even those of us who believe the description of the New Jerusalem is symbolic would not say that the new Jerusalem is not real. It is described as being "the bride, the Lamb's wife". It symbolizes the church which is a real entity. What else is the bride of Christ/the Lamb? Not a literal city. It's the church. And the church will spend eternity in the new heavens and on the new earth, which also are real entities.

Preterist alert!!!

 

[St. Joseph]

Of course it was the beginning. You are acting as if it is all future. But, it's also not talking about God pouring out His Spirit on literally all people even though it says He would pour out His Spirit on all people. The context is all believers. Obviously, He doesn't pour out His Spirit on unbelievers. We need to be able to discern these things instead of just interpreting everything hyper-literally.

The Spirit didnt fall on everyone that day in acts. Maybe 3000 out of about 300,000 people. The prophecy of Joel has not been fulfilled yet. Read Joel again. None of that stuff has happened yet.

 

[Truther]

Hello! Pentecost already happened.

So, you are denying the historic reality of the cross, and now you are denying the historic reality of Pentecost. What next? You need help! In never seen a posters arguments so roundly and quickly exposed and decimated in such a short period of time.

Pentecost is still barely scratching the surface of this....


8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Truther]

The Spirit didnt fall on everyone that day in acts. Maybe 3000 out of about 300,000 people. The prophecy of Joel has not been fulfilled yet. Read Joel again. None of that stuff has happened yet.

Exactly.

Not nearly all of Jer 31 has not happened yet.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hello! Pentecost already happened.

So, you are denying the historic reality of the cross, and now you are denying the historic reality of Pentecost. What next? You need help! I have never seen a poster’s arguments so roundly and quickly exposed and decimated in such a short period of time.

These guys are denying fundamental truths of Christianity. Very disturbing stuff. But, also very easily refuted.

 

[Truther]

No one is saying that Joel 2:28-32 is completely fulfilled. But, it began being fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, according to Peter. And it involves the fact that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord is saved. That obviously is still happening.

So, do you agree that the finality of the fulfillment is at the coming of Christ per this?...


8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Spirit didnt fall on everyone that day in acts. Maybe 3000 out of about 300,000 people. The prophecy of Joel has not been fulfilled yet. Read Joel again. None of that stuff has happened yet.

It says "all people". Are you trying to say that the Spirit will eventually fall on all people? Too late. Many people have died and the Spirit didn't fall on them. So, it's not talking literally about all people, it's talking about all believers. All believers receive the Holy Spirit so that is the context of the fulfillment of that passage. So, your hyper-literal approach to interpreting scripture does not work.

 

[St. Joseph]

More lies. Why have a Bible when you just rabbit what Scofield taught you. He has deceived you. Let the NT interpret the Old instead of letting your Dispensatanist teachers fool you..

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
You are as misguided as he is.

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven...
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Last time i will acknowledge you. But when did all thse things Joel prophesied take place? The wonders in heaven. Sun turning black. Moon turning to blood. It sure never happened in acts.

 

[Truther]

These guys are denying fundamental truths of Christianity. Very disturbing stuff. But, also very easily refuted.

No, questioning the status quo theology professor.

 

[Truther]

It says "all people". Are you trying to say that the Spirit will eventually fall on all people? Too late. Many people have died and the Spirit didn't fall on them. So, it's not talking literally about all people, it's talking about all believers. So, your hyper-literal approach to interpreting scripture does not work.

Let's see...

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.