Gog and Magog and The Flaming Fire

[Davy]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST...

Don't allow those who refuse to follow Bible Scripture as written deceive you. Many have been deceived by the false theory of Amillennialism, STARTING in the 2nd century A.D.

Why only starting in the 2nd century A.D.? Because that is when the GNOSTICS began creeping into the early Christian Church. Their false doctrines are EASY... to disprove, as I have shown already by The Bible Scriptures as written. All they can do is 'mouth', 'mock', and say it isn't so, because there is NO Bible Scripture that supports their FALSE Amillennial theories!

And just so we are very clear... that they also LIE about what the idea of Premillennialism is, and when it started, here is a basic definition of Pre-millennialism:

"Premillennialism, in Christian eschatology, is the belief that Jesus will physically return to the Earth before the Millennium, heralding a literal thousand-year messianic age of peace."

That is EXACTLY in line with the actual written Bible Scripture. The Revelation 19 chapter shows the 2nd coming of Lord Jesus with His army from heaven that will defeat His enemies on earth. Then Revelation 20 follows showing Satan is then locked in his pit prison for a "thousand years", and that Jesus then begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect over the unsaved nations. Zechariah 14, like I said, shows even leftovers of the evil army that will come up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world will be made to worship Jesus during that coming "thousand years", and keep the feast of tabernacles:

Zech 14:16-18
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV

So don't listen to the LIARS out there that go directly against the written Word of God. They are not here to serve us brethren in Christ, they are here to tempt us to stray... from the written Word of God! So keep The Faith and stay in His Word for yourselves!

 

[Keraz]

Read the article dude!

Look around you fool:
Is Satan unable to deceive anyone?
Does Jesus reign in Jerusalem?
Are we in the final thousand years of Gods 7000 year plan for mankind?

The AMill belief is wrong and is very evidently a serious error.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BEWARE BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

The theory of Amillennialism began in the 2nd century A.D. when the Gnostics crept into the Church and spread false Greek philosophy in with Christian doctrine.

This is an absolute lie. Do you have no conscience about spreading lies?

The early Church fathers of the 1st century were all Pre-millennialists, accepting Bible Scripture as written that Jesus returns prior to a "thousand years"

Another lie. Justin Martyr, who lived from 100 AD to 165 AD, said that there were many true Christians who believed otherwise from His premillennial view. That was early 2nd century, but it shows there were many Amillennialists even then and I'm sure there were many Amillennialists before then in the 1st century as well. Especially since Amillennialism is the truth and is taught in scripture.

Millennium, and then reigns on earth with His elect for that "thousand years" as written in Revelation 20. Apostle Paul called that future thousand years the "day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:5).

Amillennialism also falsely believes that on the day of Christ's future return, all... the wicked are destroyed on that day, and we immediately go into God's future new heavens and a new earth time. Not so, nor is that written.

That absolutely IS written here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

God's Word easily proves that idea as false, since Zechariah 14 reveals that the leftovers of the armies that come up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world will still exist after Jesus returns, and they will be made to bow to The KING and keep the feast of tabernacles, from year to year.

So, you think that what Jesus taught about how God requires people to worship Him in spirit and in truth will one day no longer be true? Where did Jesus indicate that would ever be the case? Do you care at all about interpreting Zechariah 14 in such a way that doesn't contradict other scripture?

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Why would Jesus say that the time had come where God the Father required people to worship Him in spirit and in truth only to one day reverse course and require people to again go up to Jerusalem to worship God and keep the feast of tabernacles? Jesus gave no indication of such a thing whatsoever.

Also, keeping the feast of tabernacles involves the performing of animal sacrifices. Why would animal sacrifices be reinstated after Jesus long ago made His "once for all" new covenant sacrifice that put an end to the necessity of the old covenant animal sacrifices? That makes no sense. Again, do you not care about interpreting Zechariah 14 in such a way that doesn't contradict other scripture?

Also per Revelation 3:9, Jesus said He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come and bow at the feet of His elect, something that has never... happened during this present world, not will it ever happen in today's world. That "synagogue of Satan" represents Satan's elect, the children of darkness, the workers of iniquity, so the fact that they will still exist during Christ's future reign with His elect reveals just who Christ's "rod of iron" will be for (Psalms 2; Revelation 2:25-28.

That will happen at the judgment. There is nothing there to suggest it will happen during an imaginary time period of a thousand years on the earth in the future.

Thus it is very easy to disprove the 2nd century Gnostic theory of Amillennialism by staying in Bible Scripture as written. And anyone with common sense ought to know that when someone makes idiotic claims that we must interpret God's Word OUTSIDE of common sense as it is written, then you know they are trying to get you away from listening to The Holy Spirit, because The Holy Spirit will always appeal to our common sense, and not some baloney 'mystical' concept that occultists try to persuade with.

Your lies and many empty words do nothing to refute Amillennialism. You cherry pick scripture to support your false Premillennial beliefs while ignoring much scripture which contradicts your premillennial beliefs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BEWARE BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

Davy likes to spread lies about views that he doesn't agree with. He is not able to back up his own views with scripture, so that is what he has decided to resort to, which is quite pathetic.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Look around you fool:

Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Is Satan unable to deceive anyone?

That isn't what Amils claim. Do you still not know how Amils understand the binding of Satan by now even though it has been explained many times? How can you think you can argue against something you don't even understand?

Does Jesus reign in Jerusalem?

Yes, and He reigns over the entire earth, as He said Himself. You should believe Him instead of insisting that He reign the way you think He should.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Are we in the final thousand years of Gods 7000 year plan for mankind?

LOL. There is no 7000 year plan. You are just making that up. It certainly is not taught in scripture.

The AMill belief is wrong and is very evidently a serious error.

Yet, you are completely incapable of refuting it. So, your words are completely empty.

 

[Davy]

This is an absolute lie. Do you have no conscience about spreading lies?

No, that is not a lie. Amillennialism did not exist until the 2nd century A.D., the same time when Gnosticsm began creeping into the Christian Church.

Another lie. Justin Martyr, who lived from 100 AD to 165 AD, said that there were many true Christians who believed otherwise from His premillennial view. That was early 2nd century, but it shows there were many Amillennialists even then and I'm sure there were many Amillennialists before then in the 1st century as well. Especially since Amillennialism is the truth and is taught in scripture.

You only confirmed... what I stated about the theory of Amillennialism starting in the 2nd century A.D.

That absolutely IS written here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

That "day of the Lord" is the day of Christ's future return, the last day of this present world. Many wrongly interpret Peter, thinking that God is going to literally destroy this whole earth when there is PLENTY of Bible Scripture that reveals the earth will continue, as the nations will also, for Christ's future reign with His elect, using the "rod of iron".

Thus some people's imagination runs wild with them for some reason when reading The Bible. In 2 Peter 3, all one had to do was think back about the previous destructions on the earth that God did, they did not destroy the whole earth, but only cleansed the surface... of this earth. That is what God's consuming fire is going to do on the "day of the Lord" also, cleanse the surface of this earth of man's works, even as the end of Hebrews 12 also reveals.

And those in Christ do... look for a new heavens and a new earth, but Peter is not really saying that is going to happen on the day of Christ's coming, especially since many other Bible Scriptures prove it does not yet happen on the day of Christ's return.

Also, did you already forget about the 'change' to the "image of the heavenly" on that "day of the Lord" which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15:49-52? Per Rev.20, the destruction of one's spirit with soul does not occur until after God's Great White Throne Judgment, with being cast into the future "lake of fire".

That 'change' on the last day of this world is one of the events written in God's Word that influences how... we interpret Peter about God's consuming fire burning the elements of man's works off the surface of this earth on that day. It is going to reveal the heavenly dimension right here on earth. All, even the wicked, will be changed. Man's time in a flesh body shell will be over.

 

[Earburner]

BEWARE BRETHREN IN CHRIST:

The theory of Amillennialism began in the 2nd century A.D. when the Gnostics crept into the Church and spread false Greek philosophy in with Christian doctrine.

The early Church fathers of the 1st century were all Pre-millennialists, accepting Bible Scripture as written that Jesus returns prior to a "thousand years" Millennium, and then reigns on earth with His elect for that "thousand years" as written in Revelation 20. Apostle Paul called that future thousand years the "day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:5).

Amillennialism also falsely believes that on the day of Christ's future return, all... the wicked are destroyed on that day, and we immediately go into God's future new heavens and a new earth time. Not so, nor is that written.

God's Word easily proves that idea as false, since Zechariah 14 reveals that the leftovers of the armies that come up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world will still exist after Jesus returns, and they will be made to bow to The KING and keep the feast of tabernacles, from year to year. Also per Revelation 3:9, Jesus said He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come and bow at the feet of His elect, something that has never... happened during this present world, not will it ever happen in today's world. That "synagogue of Satan" represents Satan's elect, the children of darkness, the workers of iniquity, so the fact that they will still exist during Christ's future reign with His elect reveals just who Christ's "rod of iron" will be for (Psalms 2; Revelation 2:25-28.

Thus it is very easy to disprove the 2nd century Gnostic theory of Amillennialism by staying in Bible Scripture as written. And anyone with common sense ought to know that when someone makes idiotic claims that we must interpret God's Word OUTSIDE of common sense as it is written, then you know they are trying to get you away from listening to The Holy Spirit, because The Holy Spirit will always appeal to our common sense, and not some baloney 'mystical' concept that occultists try to persuade with.

Though all Premils speak of a literal future 1000 years on earth, AFTER Jesus returns in all His Immortal Glory, none of you dare to find out the single NT scriptural reason of why, when and how God is allowing for a time of "a thousand years".
Nor do you understand that in God's relation to time, He has set no literal date in time for the end of a 1000 years, except that through His foreknowlede, of knowing when "they repented not", He alone then shall decide of WHEN to suddenly send Jesus "without sin" unto our salvation.

So then, knowing that down through the generations since Pentecost, NOT ALL men come to repentance towards God, through faith in the Lord Jesus, but instead DO DIE IN THEIR SINS, here are the scriptural words that describe God's expression of "a thousand years".
KJV 2 Peter 3:1-15
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
[14] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

By those verses alone, what conclusion do you draw from it, as to what the 1000 years IS FOR? (Please keep your answer simple, because it truly is). Thanks.

 

[Earburner]

Look around you fool:
Is Satan unable to deceive anyone?
Does Jesus reign in Jerusalem?
Are we in the final thousand years of Gods 7000 year plan for mankind?

The AMill belief is wrong and is very evidently a serious error.

Please provide the scripture for God's 7000 year plan.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, that is not a lie. Amillennialism did not exist until the 2nd century A.D., the same time when Gnosticsm began creeping into the Christian Church.

That is a lie and you have nothing to back it up.

You only confirmed... what I stated about the theory of Amillennialism starting in the 2nd century A.D.

LOL. Nonsense. You think that Justin Martyr was intending to say that there were many true Christians who disagreed with his premillennialist belief, but that it only started during his lifetime? LOL. Get out of here with this nonsense.

That "day of the Lord" is the day of Christ's future return, the last day of this present world.

You are apparently the only Premil in the world who gets this right. How you can believe this but not be Amil is beyond me.

Many wrongly interpret Peter, thinking that God is going to literally destroy this whole earth when there is PLENTY of Bible Scripture that reveals the earth will continue, as the nations will also, for Christ's future reign with His elect, using the "rod of iron".

I agree that God is not going to annihilate the earth, but 2 Peter 3:10-12 certainly does not indicate that any of the earth's surface will not be affected by the fire that will come down when Jesus returns. Peter compares that event directly to what happened in the flood (2 Peter 3:6-7) while implying that the level of destruction in the flood and in the fiery event that happens when Christ returns are of the same scope.

If you think Christ will reign for a thousand years on the earth after that, who do you think will be the ones populating the earth during that time? We know that all believers will have immortal, spiritual bodies and all unbelievers will be killed when He returns. That doesn't leave any mortals to populate the earth at that point.

And those in Christ do... look for a new heavens and a new earth, but Peter is not really saying that is going to happen on the day of Christ's coming, especially since many other Bible Scriptures prove it does not yet happen on the day of Christ's return.

Yes, he is saying that. No other Bible scripture say otherwise.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

What Peter is saying here is that the promise of His second coming (first referenced in 2 Peter 3:4) is directly related to the promise of "new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.". A direct fulfillment of the promise of His second coming is the new heavens and new earth. The new heavens and new earth will be the direct result of the fire that burns up the old (current) heavens and earth.

Also, did you already forget about the 'change' to the "image of the heavenly" on that "day of the Lord" which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15:49-52? Per Rev.20, the destruction of one's spirit with soul does not occur until after God's Great White Throne Judgment, with being cast into the future "lake of fire".

I don't know what you mean here, so I can't really comment on it. Please clarify.

That 'change' on the last day of this world is one of the events written in God's Word that influences how... we interpret Peter about God's consuming fire burning the elements of man's works off the surface of this earth on that day. It is going to reveal the heavenly dimension right here on earth. All, even the wicked, will be changed. Man's time in a flesh body shell will be over.

I actually agree with this, but how does this support Premil? You seem to have a doctrine all to yourself, which is typical of someone as arrogant as yourself. As if God reveals truth only to you.

 

[Earburner]

Wait, this has NOTHING to do with literal lightning or flame in verse 27.
Mat 24:25-28
(25) Behold, I have told you before.
(26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

This is NOT the Second Coming nor "THE" last day. Not yet until verse 30. Rather verses 25-29 talk about the judgment of the unfaithful church (carcase) which must take place first before the Lord reveals in the air.

Remember the judgment must take place in the House of God FIRST which is what the apostasy and desolatinon is about.

Look closer at Luke 17:

Luk 17:34-37
(34) I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
(35) Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(36) Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(37) And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

This is talking about God's house where Elect and Professed Christians working together. The context is clear that Christ says one will be taken, and the apostles ask WHERE. The Lord answered by the CRYPTIC LANGUAGE declaring "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Thus He has answered their question of WHERE the ELECT (those taken) will be taken to. And his answer to the question shows where... to JUDGE the body (unfaithful church where the abomination of desolation stands).

Do you understand who or what the eagle represents? The eagle is symbolic of the Lord's people, who take on "His" Characteristics. Thus they are both protected, and have judgment. "Know ye not that we shall judge Messengers, 1st Cor 6:3" This is the same elect who have power to shut heaven that it rain not, and have power over waters to turn them to blood. Because they have Spirit of God in them and come with the word of God in their mouths.

Revelation 12:14

• "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

As the great old hymn, "Flee as a bird to your mountain, thou who art weary of sin."

Psalms 11:1

• "In the Lord I take refuge. How then can you say to me: Flee like a bird to your mountain."

We dwell in the spiritual mountains as eagles, and this because we are representative of God, and thus we take on the characteristics of God. Not vultures, or any birds, but EAGLES [aetos], because they are characteristic of God's protection and judgment. For example:

Rev 4:6-8
(6) And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
(7) And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
(8) And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

This image of the four living creatures symbolically represents certain diverse characteristics of God. The Lion, the Lamb, the Man and the Flying Eagle [aetos]. Likewise, His elect are also characterized as these same creatures! And that is we are the ambassadors of God, sent with the word that judges. This is why we have the power to prophesy God's Word against this unfaithful body (church) as that which brings death!

This must take place before Christ returns in the sky!

Are you alluding to a secret rapture, before the Lord is visibly revealed from heaven??
If so, there is no scriptural evidence for such a belief system.
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a simultaneous event, all within 24 hours of "the SAME DAY" (Luke 17:28-30). Please take notice of the word "WHEN" written two times in KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Do you not know the hourly time of when Lot left Sodom, and when he arrived at his destination? Even Abraham was an eyewitness of the time of Sodom's destruction. Gen. 19:15-29.

If you cannot grasp this, then know that "a strong delusion" is still impressing upon your mind.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Every online tool and bible site I checked lists the word as singular, not plural. This Wicked person, also called the man of sin is one man.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 Interlinear: and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence,

2 Thessalonians 2 :: King James Version (KJV)

2 Thessalonians 2 - And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

www.blueletterbible.org

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Do you think "that wicked person" referenced above in verse 13 is referring to one certain person? Or is it referring generally to anyone who is "a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner" who are referred to as "them that are without" the church? It's the latter in case you don't know. I understand the reference to "that wicked" in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 similarly.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Look around you fool:

Say the foolish virgin.

Is Satan unable to deceive anyone?

You misunderstood. Unsaved people in the WORLD have always been deceived by Satan even if he was in bottomless pit. The reason why Satan was bound so that Christ could build the church with people that God intend to seal will be sealed - the ones that Satan can't deceive until the appointed time. After the building of the church is finished, Satan is allowed to come into the church all over the world and deceive any man therein who has NOT yet been sealed of God after the day of salvation ended. For example, the unsaved professed Christians while the people outside the church are already in his camp. You need to read Revelation 11:1-2 carefully:

Rev 11:1-2
(1) And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
(2) But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The temple of God, the altar and worshippers within are sealed Christians saved by Christ's blood since the Cross. They have been measured by God. However, the other group within the same great city, the church, are the professed Christians in the court WITHOUT temple (Christ) are who will be given to Satan to be deceived when he comes out of bottomless pit. In other words, he is no longer restrained from deceive them! Figure it out!

Does Jesus reign in Jerusalem?

What Jersualem? Do you realize that God's church is Jersualem, that beloved city and the camps of the Saints?

Are we in the final thousand years of Gods 7000 year plan for mankind?

The 7,000-year plan is a man-made theory. Nowhere in Scripture supports this nonsense.

The AMill belief is wrong and is very evidently a serious error.

You have not refuted anything biblically! Honestly!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Are you alluding to a secret rapture, before the Lord is visibly revealed from heaven??

Show me where I have taught a "secret rapture" before Lord's coming?!

If so, there is no scriptural evidence for such a belief system.

Agreed! I always teach that the rapture of the "alive and remain" Saints will occur at the last trump when Christ appears! NOT before!

KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a simultaneous event, all within 24 hours of "the SAME DAY" (Luke 17:28-30). Please take notice of the word "WHEN" written two times in KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Do you not know the hourly time of when Lot left Sodom, and when he arrived at his destination? Even Abraham was an eyewitness of the time of Sodom's destruction. Gen. 19:15-29.

If you cannot grasp this, then know that "a strong delusion" is still impressing upon your mind.

I think you misunderstood Mat 24:25-28 (and all other verses below). The one "taken" is NOT the rapture! It is when the Holy Spirit, aka Spirit of life, come upon the witnesses/Elect to come out of Babylon (fallen church) when they "SEE" the abomination of desolation standing in their midst. This is NOT the Second Coming YET because the judgment of church need to take place first.. for "one hour"!

Mat 24:15-16
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Rev 18:4-5
(4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
(5) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Rev 11:11-14
(11) And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
(12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
(13) And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 18:7-10
(7) How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
(8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

The great city, Babylon, is the church that has apostasy by gone with the beast (false prophets and christs who sit in her). The two witnesses are the Saints who have been chosen and sealed by God to preach the Gospel has been silenced (killed) by the beast and lying dead in the great city for 3-1/2 days, SYMBOLCIALLY, which means the gospel won't be heard. IN other word spiritual famine because no one want to hear their truthful testimony in the church. Before God judges his unfaithful church, he had to make sure to move all of his chosen elect to come out by allowing them to "see" the abomination of desolation standing where it is not s supposed to (ie in the church). So they will leave the church to AVOID THE PLAGUES of judgment upon her! They are the ones that is "taken" and the rest left in the church to be deceived by he false prophets and christs! So as the Eagles, the Elect came out and turn around and mourn upon falling church and PROPHESY that the judgment has come upon the church! We can "see" the smoking of her burning. Remember the smoke locusts in Revelation 9. This is what it is spoke of because with smoke, people can't see the truth in the church anymore because there are so many false prophets and christs, preaching lies where God allows them to believe it! This is the judgment of Babylon for one symbolic hour which is what the darkening of the sun, moon and stars falling SIGNIFIES! This is not the Second Coming YET, but Christ is coming to judge the church first, and after one hour is finished, He will physically appear in the air where all the Saints will meet with him in the air... at the last trump.

So do you see the truth on this now? Or are you still blind to it because your false doctrine prevented you from "seeing" this? Like I said many times, the Lord judges and I am comfortable with that because He is one who opens the eyes of the chosen Elect to "see" what is really going on in the church, while the rest of the church will deny there is anything wrong with their church and are busy looking for literal fulfillment somewhere else with silly one man theory, coalition of nations, Russian invasion of Israel, 7 years peace treaty, third temple, 70AD temple, blah blah blah. You totally miss it because it is spiritually discerned! Selah!

Yours truly,
TribulationSigns, the Eagle.

 

[Earburner]

That is a lie and you have nothing to back it up.


LOL. Nonsense. You think that Justin Martyr was intending to say that there were many true Christians who disagreed with his premillennialist belief, but that it only started during his lifetime? LOL. Get out of here with this nonsense.


You are apparently the only Premil in the world who gets this right. How you can believe this but not be Amil is beyond me.


I agree that God is not going to annihilate the earth, but 2 Peter 3:10-12 certainly does not indicate that any of the earth's surface will not be affected by the fire that will come down when Jesus returns. Peter compares that event directly to what happened in the flood (2 Peter 3:6-7) while implying that the level of destruction in the flood and in the fiery event that happens when Christ returns are of the same scope.

If you think Christ will reign for a thousand years on the earth after that, who do you think will be the ones populating the earth during that time? We know that all believers will have immortal, spiritual bodies and all unbelievers will be killed when He returns. That doesn't leave any mortals to populate the earth at that point.


Yes, he is saying that. No other Bible scripture say otherwise.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

What Peter is saying here is that the promise of His second coming (first referenced in 2 Peter 3:4) is directly related to the promise of "new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.". A direct fulfillment of the promise of His second coming is the new heavens and new earth. The new heavens and new earth will be the direct result of the fire that burns up the old (current) heavens and earth.


I don't know what you mean here, so I can't really comment on it. Please clarify.


I actually agree with this, but how does this support Premil? You seem to have a doctrine all to yourself, which is typical of someone as arrogant as yourself. As if God reveals truth only to you.

Everyone's problem is they have not yet figured it out who the New earth is, which is now the very place of God's dwelling, which is the "why" of our creation, and "why" God has so much longsuffering over it.
Luke 17
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2 Cor. 4
[7] But we have this treasure [God Himself[ in earthen vessels [our temporary bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Earburner]

Show me where I have taught a "secret rapture" before Lord's coming?!



Agreed! I always teach that the rapture of the "alive and remain" Saints will occur at the last trump when Christ appears! NOT before!



I think you misunderstood Mat 24:25-28 (and all other verses below). The one "taken" is NOT the rapture! It is when the Holy Spirit, aka Spirit of life, come upon the witnesses/Elect to come out of Babylon (fallen church) when they "SEE" the abomination of desolation standing in their midst. This is NOT the Second Coming YET because the judgment of church need to take place first.. for "one hour"!

Mat 24:15-16
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Rev 18:4-5
(4) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
(5) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Rev 11:11-14
(11) And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
(12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
(13) And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(14) The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 18:7-10
(7) How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
(8) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
(9) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(10) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

The great city, Babylon, is the church that has apostasy by gone with the beast (false prophets and christs who sit in her). The two witnesses are the Saints who have been chosen and sealed by God to preach the Gospel has been silenced (killed) by the beast and lying dead in the great city for 3-1/2 days, SYMBOLCIALLY, which means the gospel won't be heard. IN other word spiritual famine because no one want to hear their truthful testimony in the church. Before God judges his unfaithful church, he had to make sure to move all of his chosen elect to come out by allowing them to "see" the abomination of desolation standing where it is not s supposed to (ie in the church). So they will leave the church to AVOID THE PLAGUES of judgment upon her! They are the ones that is "taken" and the rest left in the church to be deceived by he false prophets and christs! So as the Eagles, the Elect came out and turn around and mourn upon falling church and PROPHESY that the judgment has come upon the church! We can "see" the smoking of her burning. Remember the smoke locusts in Revelation 9. This is what it is spoke of because with smoke, people can't see the truth in the church anymore because there are so many false prophets and christs, preaching lies where God allows them to believe it! This is the judgment of Babylon for one symbolic hour which is what the darkening of the sun, moon and stars falling SIGNIFIES! This is not the Second Coming YET, but Christ is coming to judge the church first, and after one hour is finished, He will physically appear in the air where all the Saints will meet with him in the air... at the last trump.

So do you see the truth on this now? Or are you still blind to it because your false doctrine prevented you from "seeing" this? Like I said many times, the Lord judges and I am comfortable with that because He is one who opens the eyes of the chosen Elect to "see" what is really going on in the church, while the rest of the church will deny there is anything wrong with their church and are busy looking for literal fulfillment somewhere else with silly one man theory, coalition of nations, Russian invasion of Israel, 7 years peace treaty, third temple, 70AD temple, blah blah blah. You totally miss it because it is spiritually discerned! Selah!

Yours truly,
TribulationSigns, the Eagle.

By the scriptures, through the Holy Spirit's teaching, the two anointed witnesses were John the Baptist and Jesus.

Edit: I did not think that you believe in a false secret rapture. I was only asking, so as to be clear.
I hear all of what you are saying. I do agree that we are experiencing a falling away [from faith]. Satan is pushing hard for all to put their faith in the science of technology, from phones, to the mRNA vaccines (scorpion stings) for all sicknesses, cancer and diseases. Rev. 9:1-12.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Please see Trump's "Stargate", using "AI" Technology and the DNA from each of us that sign up for a "blood test".
> Nope! That's not going to happen in the arm of this "New creature" of an "earth-en vessel".

 

[TribulationSigns]

By the scriptures, through the Holy Spirit's teaching, the two anointed witnesses were John the Baptist and Jesus.

No. Read the article below:

The (much misunderstood) Two Witnesses, their work, power, prophesy, and their killing at the hands of the Beast from the bottomless pit!

 

[TribulationSigns]

By the scriptures, through the Holy Spirit's teaching, the two anointed witnesses were John the Baptist and Jesus.

Edit: I did not think that you believe in a false secret rapture. I was only asking, so as to be clear.
I hear all of what you are saying. I do agree that we are experiencing a falling away [from faith]. Satan is pushing hard for all to put their faith in the science of technology, from phones to the mRNA vaccines.

No, Satan is deceiving people IN THE CHURCH who have NOT yet been sealed by God with lying signs and wonders. Do you even know what lying signs and wonders are?

Mar 13:21-22
(21) And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
(22) For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

This has nothing to do with technologies or mRNA or whatever you think. How do you think the false prophets and christs will seduce people in the church? Think carefully!

Act 5:12-14
(12) And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
(13) And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
(14) And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

Do you know what signs and wonders the apostles perform to add believers to the kingdom? Technologies of their time? Magic show? Come on! NO It is GOSPEL TRUTH! So likewise, what LYING signs and wonders do the false prophets and christs bring to the church that almost deceive even the elect, "IF" is it possible, humm? mRNA? No! Its the FALSE GOSPEL that will not bring peace (salvation).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Everyone's problem is they have not yet figured it out who the New earth is, which is now the very place of God's dwelling, which is the "why" of our creation, and "why" God has so much longsuffering over it.
Luke 17
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

2 Cor. 4
[7] But we have this treasure [God Himself[ in earthen vessels [our temporary bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

I'm not a fan of this type of post. You come across as if you are saying that everyone else has a problem, but you alone have this figured out. But, I'm not even certain of what you're saying here. Can you clarify? You are trying to claim that the new earth is us? If so, I certainly disagree with that. According to Peter, the new heavens and new earth is something we are still looking forward to (2 Peter 3:13). The new heavens and new earth refer to a renewed heavens and earth that will be renewed by fire when Jesus returns (2 Peter 3:13). And at that point "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Revelation 21:4).

 

[ewq1938]

Peter died forgiven in Christ, but Judas did not.

So? "that Wicked" is singular in the Greek, not plural as you claimed.

 

[Earburner]

No. Read the article below:

The (much misunderstood) Two Witnesses, their work, power, prophesy, and their killing at the hands of the Beast from the bottomless pit!

That's quite the work. However, I am of a hybrid Amillennial view, and am strongly convinced that the joint ministry of John the babtist (6 months) and Jesus (3 years) are indeed the only Two witnesses the world will ever see. Of all people, they are the only Two who were ever born with the Holy Spirit of God, aka "anointed". Zech.4:14.

Though the biblical words in Revelation do not change, in small increments the prophecy of Revelation is continually being unfolded and fulfilled on a daily basis. Therefore, only by the mind of Christ within us can we stay up to date, as time moves forward.

Some of what was once prophetically understood in 100 AD, is now nowhere near anything that is being revealed to us 1,925 years later.
We all know that what John actually saw in his futuristic visions, he did the best that he could in trying to describe them by the simple things of his day.