WOMEN ARE TO KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCH

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Grailhunter

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I know @Behold comes off as crass (sorry) but he isn't blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If he did, he would not have favor for the Lord or a repentant heart.

Miracles are a blessing but they don't make this one particular issue certain. What is written is certain. What I believe he is trying to say - and correct me if I'm wrong, there are churches who will focus more on the gifts and miracles, than the gospel and changing hearts.

Chasing after gifts before Christ is always going to be a problem. And this one in particular is misinterpreted.

Who chases after gifts? I am 67 years old and I have only known a few who wished for gifts much less are offended that they do not get them.. We are not Jews looking for a sign!!!! But it is not a negative or a sin to appreciate gifts or miracles or the spirit of a church.

There are people that believe that miracles do not happen....Cessationists. There are people so convinced that if a miracles occurs in a church.....they will say it is of the devil. Love the Catholics but a lot of them are that way.

It is wonder and a wonderful thing when the spirit is so active in a church you can feel it and real healings occur.
 
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DuckieLady

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Who chases after gifts? I am 67 years old and I have only known a few who wished for gifts much less are offended that they do not get them.. We are not Jews looking for a sign!!!! But it is not a negative or a sin to appreciate gifts or miracles or the spirit of a church.

There are people that believe that miracles do not happen....Cessationists. There are people so convinced that if a miracles occurs in a church.....they will say it is of the devil. Love the Catholics but a lot of them are that way.

It is wonder and a wonderful thing when the spirit is so active in a church you can feel it and real healings occur.
You'd be surprised. I grew up in a few different churches and that was a big deal.

I believe in gifts and I've had quite a few miracles, and continue to have miracles, but I also became very distracted in studying those specifically. Easy to do in the way I grew up. If you weren't blessed with some divine purpose, you weren't special - and there was a bad practice of spiritual narcissism.

My whole identity from my family was focused on me being "special." I'm not special. Jesus is more than special. Look at him.

Some of my family is angry at me for it because I'm not focused on what they consider to be "my calling." Oh well.

It took me a long time to realize to focus on the gospel alone and in God's timing, in His will, He does what He wants. But the target aim is eternity with Jesus. We just need to see it through a lens of truth.
 

Grailhunter

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You'd be surprised. I grew up in a few different churches and that was a big deal.

I believe in gifts and I've had quite a few miracles, and continue to have miracles, but I also became very distracted in studying those specifically. Easy to do in the way I grew up. If you weren't blessed with some divine purpose, you weren't special - and there was a bad practice of spiritual narcissism.

My whole identity from my family was focused on me being "special." I'm not special. Jesus is more than special. Look at him.

Some of my family is angry at me for it because I'm not focused on what they consider to be "my calling." Oh well.

It took me a long time to realize to focus on the gospel alone and in God's timing, in His will, He does what He wants. But the target aim is eternity with Jesus. We just need to see it through a lens of truth.
I did see in a Pentecostal church in South Carolina where they thought after you are baptized you should start speaking in tongues. That was kinda odd.
 
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DuckieLady

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I did see in a Pentecostal church in South Carolina where they thought after you are baptized you should start speaking in tongues. That was kinda odd.
I went to an Apostolic Pentecostal church as a teen, because my grandmother was a member.

They were really strict. You weren't considered saved unless you spoke in tongues after baptism.

My heart hurts for people who know they're not actually speaking in tongues and feel like they're missing something.

You're already fulfilled through Jesus if you believe in him.
 

Behold

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I know @Behold comes off as crass (sorry) but he isn't blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If he did, he would not have favor for the

Chasing after gifts before Christ is always going to be a problem. And this one in particular is misinterpreted.

As i stated.. the most Carnal Church (Local Assembly) that Paul built... was the Corinthian Christians.
They are the "tit babies" of the NT. Their Church was strife filled with carnal babies, who were chasing "gifts of the Spirit", and had no fruit....no revelation knowledge..
They were divided, into..>>"im following this person"... and Paul did nothing but correct them.

So, the most carnal Christians want to appear to be "spiritual" and want to pretend they have something you don't have...
And these same people, most of the time, have no understanding of the Cross of Christ, and will believe that they can lose their Salvation, which proves they have no understanding of God's Redemption.

What does that tell us?
It tells us that on one hand you have immature believers who have ZERO understanding of HOW Salvation is given and maintained, while they pretend to be SPIRITUAL and rant about "tongues" and "here is my gift, let me tell you all About it".

So, Reader.....just avoid this situation......as that is nothing but a carnal useless waste of your time..
 
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1stCenturyLady

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Wouldn't it make more sense if they are not understood properly by the church people, it's because they were native, and the language is not their own, and so an interpreter is simply required to translate the spoken language?

Much like a sign language interpreter. Or any modern day interpreter at all.

These people were being humbled and put in check because they were being show offs and God was establishing order.
Simply obey His rules and you won't be guilty of trying to teach God what would be best for us. Father knows best.

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Our personal tongues are not to be spoken in church. Those would cause confusion if no one is given the interpretation. Especially if everyone spoke their tongues all together, unless directed by the pastor to all together lift up praise to God and letting visitors know what they are going to do.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Ya know I have had several spiritual experiences. Two or three angels….one came to me to tell me my mom was hurt. My mom was 200 miles away so I called an ambulance.
Turned out she had cut herself and was bleeding to death.
The story made a difference in the EMT’s lives.

Like I said I have had several spiritual experiences but I have never talked in tongues….I would like to. Since my favorite churches are Holy Ghost churches I am witness to a lot of it. And I have witnessed miracles associated with these messages.
GH, you and I could probably talk all night about our lives living in the supernatural. I witnessed another creative miracle like Jesus turning water into wine again in my living room. First was in 1985, and this last one on Thanksgiving while I was all alone.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Actually the "gift of a foreign language", that is the Spiritual GIFT of "tongues"..... would not be used by Paul, in the Corinthian Church as they all spoke the same Language.

What you have is a "Prayer language"... that is for your "edification"..
Exactly. That is the sign of tongues. Paul tells us why it is not for in the church unless directed by the Pastor for praise as a choir, like on the Day of Pentecost. 1 Cor. 14:23 "Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?"
 

1stCenturyLady

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Jesus/God gave the Gift to those 120, who , who were believers, already.

If you read John 20:22, you'll find that all the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, before Pentecost and before Christ was back in Heaven....and none spoke in tongues and none were water baptized.

Also,. God doesn't give a "Church" "Spiritual Gift".. to people who are not Christians.

He gives Gifts to the born again, and also To Apostles... = "signs of an Apostle"...

So, the Gift is not the hearing, its the speaking in the foreign language by the person who has the Gift of "tongues".
Except that what you don't believe could happen happened. Read the account more carefully. And if I were you I wouldn't tell God what He can and can't do. LOL
Notice the emphasis is on the hearing, not the speaking. Hearing is spoken of first as it is being emphasized.

because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? —we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

And as I told you before, I've witnessed this in Arizona exactly as described here. The English speaking teenagers speaking in tongues, didn't hear English. Only the girl they brought with them to be saved. She didn't hear "tongues," only English. So she didn't hear naturally what they were speaking in tongues. It could be any language, even tongues of angels. God is the creator of all languages.
 

Grailhunter

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GH, you and I could probably talk all night about our lives living in the supernatural. I witnessed another creative miracle like Jesus turning water into wine again in my living room. First was in 1985, and this last one on Thanksgiving while I was all alone.
Oh Yea, Holy Ghost churches are full of them. Down right shocking. At times you can feel and see the Holy Spirit move in different ways. Physical healings and healings of the heart. More than I can remember.
 

Scott Downey

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Many years ago, maybe even 30 yrs ago, I watched a tv show of Russian Christian's baptizing people in a river, and it was all in the Russian language, all of them speaking Russian and suddenly I understood everything they were saying, and it was just like hearing English for a short time, and after a minute or so, back to Russian being spoken. This was not edited into the show that I could tell.

Back then we went to church where most people did speak in tongues and believed in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, just the early church did.

Lots of people during the worship service, when people would sing and speak in tongues, and then some would interpret, or prophesy.
This was in the early 1980's but it faded later, and we moved to another similar church. But today there is not so much of that.
 

Doug

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Many years ago, maybe even 30 yrs ago, I watched a tv show of Russian Christian's baptizing people in a river, and it was all in the Russian language, all of them speaking Russian and suddenly I understood everything they were saying, and it was just like hearing English for a short time, and after a minute or so, back to Russian being spoken. This was not edited into the show that I could tell.

Back then we went to church where most people did speak in tongues and believed in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, just the early church did.

Lots of people during the worship service, when people would sing and speak in tongues, and then some would interpret, or prophesy.
This was in the early 1980's but it faded later, and we moved to another similar church. But today there is not so much of that.
Couple of things to consider

[1Co 12:13, 30 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. ... 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

There is nothing about being speaking in tongues in regard to the baptism by the Spirit
Also not all in the body of Christ can speak with tongues
 

1stCenturyLady

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Oh Yea, Holy Ghost churches are full of them. Down right shocking. At times you can feel and see the Holy Spirit move in different ways. Physical healings and healings of the heart. More than I can remember.
Less than a year ago I heard some ladies talking after Sunday School before church about the seers in their small church, so, I jumped in and asked what they were talking about. They said, there were 3 seers there in that tiny country church that could see a halo emanating from Pastor Jim as he gave the sermon. So, I prayed and asked God that if this was a gift from Him, and not what auras that psychic mediums see, that I would like to have it. I went into church and only when he began the sermon that I began to see this pure white halo coming out of him. It only happens during the sermon. Not during the song service or announcements, just the sermon, so it is judging the sermon whether or not it is anointed.

Months later I happened to read an old prophecy given to me back in 2000 at a Spirit filled living conference in California. It started coming to pass as soon as I got home in Arizona. And more came to pass later. And this time I was dumb-founded that one of the last lines said, and may your eyes be opened by the Spirit of God. And then recently I read 1 Cor. 2:9 that said, "Eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor have entered the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love Him. Now my eye is opened. Back in 1977 I could hear God's voice, and He would always tell me what to pray for, and so far 100% of my prayers have been answered, and I have received what God told me to ask for.

Sometime I'll tell you about the Thanksgiving miracle!
 

Scott Downey

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Couple of things to consider

[1Co 12:13, 30 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. ... 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

There is nothing about being speaking in tongues in regard to the baptism by the Spirit
Also not all in the body of Christ can speak with tongues
Most assuredly, by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.

12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink [a]into one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
 

Scott Downey

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18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
 

Grailhunter

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Less than a year ago I heard some ladies talking after Sunday School before church about the seers in their small church, so, I jumped in and asked what they were talking about. They said, there were 3 seers there in that tiny country church that could see a halo emanating from Pastor Jim as he gave the sermon. So, I prayed and asked God that if this was a gift from Him, and not what auras that psychic mediums see, that I would like to have it. I went into church and only when he began the sermon that I began to see this pure white halo coming out of him. It only happens during the sermon. Not during the song service or announcements, just the sermon, so it is judging the sermon whether or not it is anointed.

Months later I happened to read an old prophecy given to me back in 2000 at a Spirit filled living conference in California. It started coming to pass as soon as I got home in Arizona. And more came to pass later. And this time I was dumb-founded that one of the last lines said, and may your eyes be opened by the Spirit of God. And then recently I read 1 Cor. 2:9 that said, "Eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor have entered the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love Him. Now my eye is opened. Back in 1977 I could hear God's voice, and He would always tell me what to pray for, and so far 100% of my prayers have been answered, and I have received what God told me to ask for.

Sometime I'll tell you about the Thanksgiving miracle!
That is incredible!!! Thank you for sharing….You made my day.
God bless.
 

chandlere880

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hello

I believe that 1Ti 2:12 is mistranslated and that by looking at the original message we can clear up all confusion.
Firstly, we notice the subject of what Paul is referring to in - 1Ti 2:2

:2 For kings, and all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and “ peaceable ἡσύχιος / hēsuchios “
life in all godliness and honesty.

The Greek word here is peaceable ἡσύχιος / hēsuchios “ quietness / calm / peaceable

then

:12
γυναικι women - δε also/ AS WELL - διδασκειν teaching - ουκ not - επιτρεπω permitted

ουδε neither - αυθεντειν an authentic - ανδρος male - αλλ unless - ειναι they be -

εν in - ησυχια quietness / calmness / peaceable

meaning

Women also, teaching is not permitted for the woman - unless they are in - ησυχια quietness / calmness / ☞ peaceable - peacefulness


the manuscript message shows that Paul is saying that even a male, in authority, a man who is fully authorized with all authority to preach - he himself , - he must preach in in quietness / calmness -
peacefully.

A man in authority, himself, he must preach in calmness and peacefulness

WOMEN ALSO, TEACHING IS NOT PERMITTED UNLESS THEY ARE IN - ΗΣΥΧΙΑ QUIETNESS / CALMNESS / PEACEABLE - PEACEFULNESS

that we may lead a quiet and “ peaceable ἡσύχιος / hēsuchios “
life

1Ti 2:13 αδαμ Adam - γαρ for - πρωτος first - επλασθη was formed - ειτα then -
ευα Shavah, = Eve.

1Ti 2:14 και And - αδαμ Adam - ουκ not - ηπατηθη deceived - η but - δε the -
γυνη woman - απατηθεισα was deceived - εν in - παραβασει the transgression -
γεγονεν made

1Ti 2:15 σωθησεται will be saved - δε also - δια through - της the - τεκνογονιας child - bearing - εαν if - μεινωσιν they abide - εν in - πιστει faith - και and - αγαπη love - και and - αγιασμω sanctification - μετα with - σωφροσυνης self-control.



Here is the exact word for word translation


Women also teaching not permitted neither an authentic / in authority male, unless they be in quietness / calmness - peacefully

Adam for first was formed then Shavah = Eve And Adam not deceived but the woman was deceived in the transgression made. They will be saved also through the child bearing if they abide in faith and love and sanctification with self control.


I BELIEVE THAT THE MANUSCRIPTS MAKE IT VERY CLEAR - saying that the woman and even a male with full authority himself, both, that they are not to be preaching and teaching unless they be in
ΗΣΥΧΙΑ QUIETNESS / CALMNESS / PEACEABLE - PEACEFULNESS

The Greek word “ Silent = This is not the same Greek word “ SILENCE “
the word “ SILENCE “ - is σιγάω / sigaō - silent _ shut closed

ἡσύχιος / hēsuchios - quietness _ peacefully

the word Silent does not exist in 1Ti 2:12

does it not simply seem that Paul was addressing both males and women in the church commanding that the preaching and teaching is to be done in quietness _ peacefulness……. Paul is not trying to single out the woman but saying that both men and women will be saved from the transgression made by Adam and Eve

They - BOTH MAN AND WOMAN - will be saved also through the child bearing if both they abide in faith and love and sanctification with self control.

The Greek word for silence is σιγάω / sigaō - silent _ shut closed

The word used here is - ἡσύχιος / hēsuchios - quietness _ peacefully
and when we look at a word for word translation we see exactly what the manuscript says


:12 γυναικι women - δε also/ AS WELL - διδασκειν teaching - ουκ not - επιτρεπω permitted

ουδε neither - αυθεντειν an authentic - ανδρος male - αλλ unless - ειναι they be -

εν in - ησυχια quietness / calmness / peacefulness ’

 

Wynona

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[1Co 14:34 KJV] 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Women are not prohibited from talking in church. Women are restricted from teaching in the public setting of the local church.

The prohibition of women speaking in the church was not just under the law but was dictated by Paul and the revelations of Christ as well. Women and Men are assigned specific functions in the church by God.

[1Co 14:27-28 KJV] 27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Speaking in tongues was speaking in a foreign language.

Note in verse 27 that it is designated for men to speak in an unknown tongue and not women.

Not only are women to keep silence in the church, but in verse 28 men are to keep silence as well if there is no interpreter.

[1Co 14:35 KJV] 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Women were not to ask questions in public. They were to respect the headship of the husband and ask him at home.

Another way to look at the verse above can be seen below.

[1Co 14:29-31 KJV] 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Women could receive a revelation by the men speaking but could not contribute that in the church. They could then ask their husbands to share what she learned.

[1Ti 2:12 KJV] 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Women are not to usurp authority over men in the church. Women teaching in the church assembly would undermine the position men heold in the church.

[Tit 2:3-5 KJV] 3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Women are given duties and functions that only they can perform. Women could not teach over the men in the public local church but were given other ministries. They could teach children and young women. They could be teachers of good things.
Hi @Doug . Am in agreement. I think more churches ought to teach this.
 
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Grailhunter

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Hi @Doug . Am in agreement. I think more churches ought to teach this.



I disagree.

This was during a period that women were still considered property.
Fathers still controlled who they married and grooms paid for brides.
And the scriptures never required Wedding Ceremonies to be married.
And the scriptures never put an end to polygamy and concubinage.
For the Bible Only people I understand the concept as long as they are consistent. Now a days women have the choice whether to agree to such things. As far as speaking in church I support women preachers and husband wife pastoral teams.
 

Fred J

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Speaking in tongues was speaking in a foreign language.
The gift of tongues given to believers inside the congregation is for the 'praising' and 'glorifying' of GOD who art in Heaven.

They are 'angelic tongues' as how angels conduct in Heaven, which apparently needed 'interpretation' to the common language spoken by every believer in the congregation.

So that during services everyone 'perceive' what is being 'spoken', therefore at the end everyone in 'agreement' may end by, 'Amen'

They are not tongues of foreign men which the Apostles received on the day of Pentecost, that need not 'interpretation'.

This is because the crowd that were in the open whom heard them, 'perceived' in their own 'mother tongue' the Gospel is proclaimed for salvation.

Apostle Paul have made it clear, what if he's able to 'speak in the tongues of men and of angels', and have not love. (1Corinthians13:1)

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.