WOMEN ARE TO KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCH

[Behold]

True. I don't do it anymore and I'm not part of that group now. I just mean I can recognize what other people are going through pretty easily.

Sometimes it's really difficult to see things through someone else's perspective. How are we supposed to lead people to one direction, unless we can be sensitive to the space their in now?

@Behold I remember you tried to convince me many years ago. You didn't convince me. I'll tell you why. God wanted to do it in his own way. But, I felt more beat down than lifted up, and more discouraged than heard. That's why we need to be patient with people.

I planted a seed., as that is what a Teacher does.

Its like my classes.........there are students, and all are being taught the same lesson.
Student A, has a lot of false religious training, because they were in a very carnal type of "church"...so, that training.... will not allow them to immediately receive the word, ...................but the seed, the teaching i planted will bud, will mature, unless they quit.

Whereas Student B... is just recently born again.. and has not fallen under the influence of a lot of fake religious nonsense... that they BELIEVED until they found out it was all FAKE. = Too Late, Damage done....
So, Student B, does not have all those LAYERS of resistance, built in, that i have to deal with....so, they receive the word, and off they go.

Forums ........its the same.

You have the indoctrinated deceived, who cant hear, because their spiritual eyes are blinded by their cult teaching.... so, they are going to resist good sound doctrinal teaching because their deceived ears, hear truth as ....>>"that's not right".....because the truth does not FIT their religious training.,,,does not JELL with their deceived mind... and can't.

Let me show you something about "tongues"...

First, Paul said to seek the "best Gift" and tongues is the last one on the list......its the bottom of the "9".

Also, you only find "tongues" in the Corinthians, (Epistles) ... as that is where the teaching on it occurs, and then you look at the Corinthians who were obsessed with..>>"give me a gift".........and what do you find? ?????
You find the worst of Paul's churches that He started.. They are the most carnal, they are the most at odds with leaning anything that matters, and they had to be corrected the most......and this is where you find the young man fornicating with His Stepmother.
So, this is the most CARNAL Local Assembly in the entire NT, and it was the ONE that was so concerned with "give me a gift, where is my spiritual gift"...

 

[Doug]

That was NOT God's proscribed desire for Adam to rule over Eve. God was simply warning Eve of the disastrous results that sin would unfortunately bring to their marital union. It was not as God desired their marriage to be.

Look also at what would happen to Adam. The ground would be cursed for his sake, and he would eat from it in sorrow all the days of his life, with thorns and thistles growing. Adam would eat the herbs of the field (which he was already doing anyway, just as Eve was already equipped to give birth to children - just not as often as she would afterward).

Adam would eat bread in the sweat of his face until he returned to the ground in death, to return to dust.

Some questions for you. If God proscribed all these things to happen to Adam, why are any men entitled to use herbicides or fertilizing methods to grow more food? Is that not a sin to resist the growth of weeds, if God desired this and planned it that way?

And as for working with sweat, if any man tries to work in an air-conditioned room for comfort, he should be ashamed for trying to get out of one of the curses given to him by God. And any farmer that dares to take any joy out of growing crops should also repent for enjoying his labor in the fields. He should experience nothing but sorrow in the process.

And as for returning to the dust again, if God desired and planned that for us, then we have no business going to a doctor or using medication of ANY kind in order to prolong our lives. Shame on us!

And as for women having increased sorrow with increased conception, I suppose that means that no women should ever use any medication to reduce pain, if she is decreed to suffer in childbirth.

The idea that these curses were all God's recommendations is laughable. And that includes the rule that husbands tend to exercise over their wives. They should resist the temptation and fight against it - not double down on it as if it were a God-given recommendation.

You said And as for returning to the dust again, if God desired and planned that for us, then we have no business going to a doctor or using medication of ANY kind in order to prolong our lives. Shame on us!

[2Ki 20:7 KJV] 7 And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid [it] on the boil, and he recovered.

Equivalent of taking medicine

 

[Behold]

You said And as for returning to the dust again, if God desired and planned that for us, then we have no business going to a doctor or using medication of ANY kind in order to prolong our lives. Shame on us!

[2Ki 20:7 KJV] 7 And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid [it] on the boil, and he recovered.

Equivalent of taking medicine

Paul told Timothy to drink some wine for His STRESS... "stomach".

That is Medicine.

Also, Paul had Luke with Him.....a lot....and Luke was a DOCTOR...."beloved Physician".

So, MEDICINE is a cure, often.......and that is also a way that God heals., as well as an instant manifestation of a Prayer, answered.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You said And as for returning to the dust again, if God desired and planned that for us, then we have no business going to a doctor or using medication of ANY kind in order to prolong our lives. Shame on us!

[2Ki 20:7 KJV] 7 And Isaiah said, Take a lump of figs. And they took and laid [it] on the boil, and he recovered.

Equivalent of taking medicine

You are totally missing the point I am trying to make. Which is easy to do on a forum where we are merely looking at the words and not a person's facial expressions and manner of speaking. I am NOT saying that people should avoid taking medicine and visiting doctors to help with their infirmities. Far from it.

What I am doing is showing just how ridiculous it would be to interpret Adam's curses as God's desire and proscribed plan for Adam the man to suffer and die and to labor to feed himself with sorrow and sweat, with weeds and thorns growing up to counter his efforts. It has never been a sin to work at providing relief for all those maladies that plague mankind.

In just the same manner, it is equally ridiculous to interpret Eve's curses as God's desire and proscribed plan for Adam to rule over her. I get so weary of people saying that God has designed and set up the system of the husband ruling over his wife, and by extension, men ruling over women in general. These were merely one of the more unfortunate results of what the sin of the original couple produced for themselves - NOT by God's decreed desire for gender relations.

Men and women are to work at squelching those unfortunate effects that sin has caused for gender relations over the millennia. Especially under the New Covenant, when God by the Holy Spirit has come to indwell all believers, and men and women via Christ Jesus our Great High Priest have equal priestly access by prayer to God's throne in heaven; "heirs together of the grace of life".

 

[DuckieLady]

I planted a seed., as that is what a Teacher does.

Its like my classes.........there are students, and all are being taught the same lesson.
Student A, has a lot of false religious training, because they were in a very carnal type of "church"...so, that training.... will not allow them to immediately receive the word, ...................but the seed, the teaching i planted will bud, will mature, unless they quit.

Whereas Student B... is just recently born again.. and has not fallen under the influence of a lot of fake religious nonsense... that they BELIEVED until they found out it was all FAKE. = Too Late, Damage done....
So, Student B, does not have all those LAYERS of resistance, built in, that i have to deal with....so, they receive the word, and off they go.

Forums ........its the same.

You have the indoctrinated deceived, who cant hear, because their spiritual eyes are blinded by their cult teaching.... so, they are going to resist good sound doctrinal teaching because their deceived ears, hear truth as ....>>"that's not right".....because the truth does not FIT their religious training.,,,does not JELL with their deceived mind... and can't.

Let me show you something about "tongues"...

First, Paul said to seek the "best Gift" and tongues is the last one on the list......its the bottom of the "9".

Also, you only find "tongues" in the Corinthians, (Epistles) ... as that is where the teaching on it occurs, and then you look at the Corinthians who were obsessed with..>>"give me a gift".........and what do you find? ?????
You find the worst of Paul's churches that He started.. They are the most carnal, they are the most at odds with leaning anything that matters, and they had to be corrected the most......and this is where you find the young man fornicating with His Stepmother.
So, this is the most CARNAL Local Assembly in the entire NT, and it was the ONE that was so concerned with "give me a gift, where is my spiritual gift"...

Yeah I still feel the same as I did then

 

[Doug]

so weary of people saying that God has designed and set up the system of the husband ruling over his wife, and by extension, men ruling over women in general.

In Timothy we see the proper ways to conduct ourselves in church
Women have a position in overseeing the family structure and teaching younger women

By the way I did not miss your point I never thought you were saying to avoid medical care etc

 

[1stCenturyLady]

He's saying if you speak in tongues you're not helping the church because nobody understands you. It's better to prophecy.

Utters mysteries = nobody understands what you're saying

Not that it isn't a real language, but that nobody in that church understands it.

Right. And that is why our gifts for us individually in Mark 16:16-18 doesn't have interpretation of tongues. That gift is for the church when someone stands to give a message in tongues that MUST be interpreted. Tongues are only understood supernaturally, never naturally.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I guess i dont have to tell you that what you are "into"... is only what Pentecostals worry about, and its because of Pentecostals obsessing on it, and not understanding it, that the confusion is created, .. so that is the product that the charismatics have given to the church, which is confusion regarding the least important thing of all.

'Imagine this...

A "tongue talker" dies, and meets Jesus ...

Jesus says.>>"so, what did you do for me"... "how many people did you lead to me'..... "how many poor did you help">..

And the Charismatic says....>>"well, Lord, i didnt lead anyone to Christ, and i didn't really think about the poor, but...i did spend 50 yrs trying to "get the infilling" while i tried to talk in tongues and get the interpretation... every Sunday before we were dismissed for lunch.".

= Useless.

Though I have the sign of tongues without interpretation, unfortunately I rarely speak in tongues for that reason that I can't understand it. And that is wrong; I must operate in it more. Paul wants us to use it a lot, and he even said he speaks in tongues more than anyone in Corinth. But I am able to hear God's voice so I only pray what He tells me to pray, for myself or others. And for 47 years 100% of my prayers are answered and I receive what He told me to pray for. How often do you pray in tongues? Do you obey Paul more than I do?

I spend most of my time teaching the Word of God and the true interpretation of scripture that I have learned from Him. He doesn't just talk to me about prayer, but His meaning to His word.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Exactly.
God does not give the 9 Gifts of the Spirit to an unbeliever.

Not permanently. But like the 3,000 on the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit gave it to them to draw their attention. And after Peter's sermon, they were all baptized.

 

[DuckieLady]

Right. And that is why our gifts for us individually in Mark 16:16-18 doesn't have interpretation of tongues. That gift is for the church when someone stands to give a message in tongues that MUST be interpreted. Tongues are only understood supernaturally, never naturally.

Wouldn't it make more sense if they are not understood properly by the church people, it's because they were native, and the language is not their own, and so an interpreter is simply required to translate the spoken language?

Much like a sign language interpreter. Or any modern day interpreter at all.

These people were being humbled and put in check because they were being show offs and God was establishing order.

 

[Behold]

Though I have the sign of tongues without interpretation, unfortunately I rarely speak in tongues for that reason that I can't understand it. And that is wrong; I must operate in it more. Paul wants us to use it a lot, and he even said he speaks in tongues more than anyone in Corinth.

Actually the "gift of a foreign language", that is the Spiritual GIFT of "tongues"..... would not be used by Paul, in the Corinthian Church as they all spoke the same Language.

What you have is a "Prayer language"... that is for your "edification"..

 

[Behold]

Not permanently. But like the 3,000 on the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit gave it to them to draw their attention. And after Peter's sermon, they were all baptized.

Jesus/God gave the Gift to those 120, who , who were believers, already.

If you read John 20:22, you'll find that all the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, before Pentecost and before Christ was back in Heaven....and none spoke in tongues and none were water baptized.

Also,. God doesn't give a "Church" "Spiritual Gift".. to people who are not Christians.

He gives Gifts to the born again, and also To Apostles... = "signs of an Apostle"...

So, the Gift is not the hearing, its the speaking in the foreign language by the person who has the Gift of "tongues".

 

[Grailhunter]

You are correct, the Gift of Tongues is not our prayer language. That is the sign of tongues. It is in Mark 16 and interpretation of tongues is not given for prayer and praise. However, in 1 Cor. 12, the similar gifts of tongues, does require interpretation because it is for the profit of all. And not everyone is given the gift, only the sign. But just because we are all given this authority for these signs in Mark 16:16-18, unbelief will squelch them dead. It was John Calvin who is the "father" of cessationism. His leavening the gospel spoils God's whole doctrine. They believe in a "different" Jesus.

Ya know I have had several spiritual experiences. Two or three angels….one came to me to tell me my mom was hurt. My mom was 200 miles away so I called an ambulance.
Turned out she had cut herself and was bleeding to death.
The story made a difference in the EMT’s lives.

Like I said I have had several spiritual experiences but I have never talked in tongues….I would like to. Since my favorite churches are Holy Ghost churches I am witness to a lot of it. And I have witnessed miracles associated with these messages.

 

[Behold]

Like I said I have had several spiritual experiences but I have never talked in tongues….

Don't worry about it, as its not important to anyone, except those churches you mentioned.

If this makes you feel better, you can read the NT again.., and notice that Jesus never spoke in Tongues.

JUDE never mentions tongues...
LUKE never mentions it.
MARK never mentions it.
JOHN never mentions it.
JAMES never mentions it.

You have Peter, talking to Jews, in Acts 2.
You have Paul talking to ONE local assembly about it, in his entire 13 Epistles... and they were the worst BABY Christians in the entire NT, and they worried endlessly about "gifts"., because babies want gifts., AND THEY fought with each other like dogs.

WE dont need to be that one.
Instead... do this.. ....... Realize that you are going to meet Jesus.. and He is going to ask you.... "what have you done in my BODY"..

= "what have you done for me with your Christianity, whereby i hung on a Cross and BLED and DIED to give you "? ??

You dont want to have as your only answer.>>>."I worried about "tongues" and argued about it on forums"...

And Jesus said.>"so, you wasted your Christianity"...

"ummmm , i guess so".

And Jesus says.>>"Why didnt you master the NT... why didnt you study Paul's Doctrine. teach Sunday School, go on Mission Trips.. Feed the Poor.. become a Deacon or Deaconess..or help with a Prison Ministry.... and most of all... why were you not concerned about leading lost sinners to ME". !!?

See that @Grailhunter ..

We dont want to be that useless one........when we come face to face with the Lord Jesus The Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

Don't worry about it, as its not important to anyone, except those churches you mentioned.

If this makes you feel better, you can read the NT again.., and notice that Jesus never spoke in Tongues.

JUDE never mentions tongues...
LUKE never mentions it.
MARK never mentions it.
JOHN never mentions it.
JAMES never mentions it.

You have Peter, talking to Jews, in Acts 2.
You have Paul talking to ONE local assembly about it, in his entire 13 Epistles... and they were the worst BABY Christians in the entire NT, and they worried endlessly about "gifts"., because babies want gifts.

WE dont need to be that one.
Instead... do this.. ....... Realize that you are going to meet Jesus.. and He is going to ask you.... "what have you done in my BODY"..

= "what have you done for me with your Christianity, that i hung on a Cross and BLED and DIED to give you "? ??

You dont want to have as your only answer.>>>."I worried about "tongues" and argued about it on forums"...

And Jesus said.>"so, you wasted your Christianity"...

"ummmm , i guess so".

And Jesus says.>>"Why didnt you master the NT... why didnt you study Paul's Doctrine. teach Sunday School, go on Mission Trips.. Feed the Poor.. become a Deacon or Deaconess..or help with a Prison Ministry.... and most of all... why were you not concerned about leading lost sinners to ME". !!?

See that @Grailhunter ..

We dont want to be that useless one........when we come face to face with the Lord Jesus The Christ.

but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. Mark 3:29

“And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him. Luke 12:10

See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya!

I go and worship at several different churches and love them all. But the Holy Ghost churches have the most heart felt worship for the Lord. And have more miracles then the rest combined

 

[Behold]

but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. Mark 3:29

There are 2 of these..

"Blasphemy against"

"Blasphemy of"...

So, to commit Blasphemy against, you have to literally see Jesus on earth do a miracle and then say to Him....""""you are doing that by the power of the Devil""". = This "wont be forgiven in this world or in the world to come"....

A Christian can't commit that sin..

Whereas anyone can "blaspheme the Holy Spirit'"..... by teaching heresy, like Calvinism.

The other way you do that, is to prevent an unbeliever from Trusting in Christ"..

An example...

A friend of an Atheist, who is an unbeliever is worried about going to Hell.. and He tells the Atheist.
The Atheist says.....>"What are you now a Jesus Freak? "C'mon man,..... that crap is like ZEUS.. or the Easter Bunny... its just all made up... a silly story...the bible is filled with errors... God is a myth..... forget it".

1.) = Blasphemy OF the Holy Spirit.

I go and worship at several different churches and love them all. But the Holy Ghost churches have the most heart felt worship for the Lord. And have more miracles then the rest combined

My friendly advice is...

Enjoy the Assembly of God and the other Pentecostal Charismatic Worship Services,.../ and then, as soon as their doctrine starts, turn it off.

 

[DuckieLady]

but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin. Mark 3:29

“And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him. Luke 12:10

See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya!

I go and worship at several different churches and love them all. But the Holy Ghost churches have the most heart felt worship for the Lord. And have more miracles then the rest combined

I know @Behold comes off as crass (sorry) but he isn't blaspheming the Holy Spirit. If he did, he would not have favor for the Lord or a repentant heart.

Miracles are a blessing but they don't make this one particular issue certain. What is written is certain. What I believe he is trying to say - and correct me if I'm wrong, there are churches who will focus more on the gifts and miracles, than the gospel and changing hearts.

Chasing after gifts before Christ is always going to be a problem. And this one in particular is misinterpreted.

 

[quietthinker]

WOMEN ARE TO KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCH​

'Cuz the yada yada has filled the cup outside the Church.

 

[DuckieLady]

WOMEN ARE TO KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCH​

'Cuz the yada yada has filled the cup outside the Church.

Lol ...

I always read it more as "stop interrupting the service and ask your husband when you get home."

When I don't know, I ask Mr. Duck, and Mr. Duck went to Bible college and has preached. So when he answers, BELIEVE ME, I am going to get all of the answers and more.

 

[quietthinker]

Lol ...

I always read it more as "stop interrupting the service and ask your husband when you get home."

When I don't know, I ask Mr. Duck, and Mr. Duck went to Bible college and has preached. So when he answers, BELIEVE ME, I am going to get all of the answers and more.