WOMEN ARE TO KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCH

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[1Co 14:34 KJV] 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Women are not prohibited from talking in church. Women are restricted from teaching in the public setting of the local church.

The prohibition of women speaking in the church was not just under the law but was dictated by Paul and the revelations of Christ as well. Women and Men are assigned specific functions in the church by God.

[1Co 14:27-28 KJV] 27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Speaking in tongues was speaking in a foreign language.

Note in verse 27 that it is designated for men to speak in an unknown tongue and not women.

Not only are women to keep silence in the church, but in verse 28 men are to keep silence as well if there is no interpreter.

[1Co 14:35 KJV] 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Women were not to ask questions in public. They were to respect the headship of the husband and ask him at home.

Another way to look at the verse above can be seen below.

[1Co 14:29-31 KJV] 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

Women could receive a revelation by the men speaking but could not contribute that in the church. They could then ask their husbands to share what she learned.

[1Ti 2:12 KJV] 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Women are not to usurp authority over men in the church. Women teaching in the church assembly would undermine the position men heold in the church.

[Tit 2:3-5 KJV] 3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Women are given duties and functions that only they can perform. Women could not teach over the men in the public local church but were given other ministries. They could teach children and young women. They could be teachers of good things.
Jezebel ~ by ReverendRV * June 8

Revelation 2:20 BSB; But I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads My servants to be sexually immoral and to eat food sacrificed to idols.

While in the Garden of Eden and in the presence of her husband Adam, Eve took over a situation that he should have handled; she dealt with the Devil and was deceived. She gave Adam a bite of the forbidden fruit and he ate it; causing the Fall of Mankind. ~ Jezebel was the Queen of Israel, the wife of King Ahab. There was very little question though which one of them ruled the roost; she was Eve on Steroids. She mixed Idolatry with the Jewish Faith, so God saw that she paid the price for it; what harmony does Christ have with Belial? Her name would go down in Infamy, who names their child Jezebel; or Adolph? But our Verse speaks of another Jezebel, one in character only. The Church at Thyatira allowed her to teach as a Prophetess, opposing God’s instruction from Saint Paul. Are we any better than Jezebel was? Let’s see…

Have you ever told a Lie? What do we call people that Lie? Jezebel Lied to gain a Vineyard. Have you ever stolen anything? What do we call those who steal stuff? Jezebel stole that Vineyard from its God given owner. Have you Murdered somebody? Jesus said that Hatred is Murder committed in your heart, have you ever wished someone would die already? Jezebel wanted the Vineyard’s owner dead, so she could give it to her Covetous husband who wanted it from the start. ~ These are just four of God’s Ten Commandments, if he judged you by his standard would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Does this bother you?? You know that you’ve Trespassed against God and Man! We all have boundaries which we shouldn’t cross; but when we realize that we’ve taken forbidden fruit, we know we’re Guilty; even if we did it to please a loved one who Coveted the thing in the first place…

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is this Son of God and he lived his life as an innocent Man for the purpose of keeping the Ten Commandments, and to gain a human Righteousness for himself. But he will share this Right Standing with all who believe he died on the Cross to pay for their Sins with his own precious blood; and that he arose from the dead, conquering the Grave. We are Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in the risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, without trying to earn our own standing with God. Confess Jesus Christ as LORD; Repent of your wicked ways, and join a Church that teaches the Bible. ~ The Church teaches Premillenialism; IE, Futurism. This means that Jesus is speaking about a woman during Saint John’s era; and about women in the future: the Church believes this future is now. Are you a Prophetess? Do you teach in a position at your Church that God gave to someone else? How is it that you can believe the Book of Revelation is for now, and continue to be a Prophetess; since Jesus holds it against the Church?? Will you remember Jesus holds it against you the next time you Preach?

Revelation 2:20 NIV; I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.
 

Angelina

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This is very legalistic way of looking at what Jesus says brother @Hey You!

The Lord does not differentiate between genders. Galatians 3 says: 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
 
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This is very legalistic way of looking at what Jesus says brother @Hey You!

The Lord does not differentiate between genders. Galatians 3 says: 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Hey @Angelina . Thanks for reading my Gospel Tract. Do you believe the messages to the Seven Churches in Revelation, are for today?
 

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What do you think, brother? You already have an answer prepared either way. :thumbsupx1
Okay. Thanks for reading it...

The Church believes Jesus spoke of the Churches in Saint John’s Day, and to the Churches in the Last Days; both eras get the warnings...

Am I wrong?
 
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Nancy

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"A classic example of women in leadership can be found in Romans 16:1-7. In a long set of greetings at the end of this letter, a number of intriguing women appear. Paul writes:

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae,

so that you may welcome her in the Lord as is fitting for the saints, and help her

in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a benefactor of many and

of myself as well. Greet Prisca [or Priscilla] and Aquila, who work with me in Christ

Jesus, and who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks, but also

all the churches of the Gentiles. Greet also the church in their house. Greet my

beloved Epaenetus, who was the first convert in Asia for Christ. Greet Mary, who

has worked very hard among you. Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who

were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in

Christ before I was."


These seven verses are a mine of information regarding women leaders of the early church. First of all is "Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae." She is specifically described using the Greek word diakonos. In English this becomes "deacon." It should not be translated as "deaconess," as occasionally happens, which gives the impression of a specific female (perhaps subservient sub-role). The female form "deaconess" did not appear until three centuries after Paul wrote and Phoebe is described with a title used for men.

This brings us to Prisca [or Priscilla] and Aquila. These two (woman and man) are mentioned no less than six times in the New Testament. The evidence is found in Acts and in no less than three of Paul's letters. They are always named together and are never named individually. They clearly were a power-couple. Regarding these six references: Aquila's name appears first, twice; but Prisca/Priscilla appears first on four occasions. It is hard to interpret this as anything other than equality of status.

Then there is Junia, and the status of this woman has caused no end of debate. She was a relative of Paul's, became a Christian before he did, and was in prison with him. The reference to her reads as "prominent among the apostles." Despite some attempts to make Junia into a man (as with Nympha) – via a postulated, very rare, male personal-name Junias – the weight of evidence is heavily in favour of it being a female name. Some manuscripts name her as "Julia," which underscores this point. Early church tradition thought she was a woman. We might suspect that some translators and commentators have been inclined (unconsciously perhaps) to assume a male identity for Junia/Julia because this resolves the apparent conundrum of a female apostle. But a female apostle, we must conclude, is exactly what she was. Whatever does that mean?

This is such a revolutionary thought that it has led some commentators to assume that this phrase meant either "in the eyes of the apostles" (since it seems impossible to believe that a woman and an unknown man could have been promoted to this elite inner group), or that it meant 'apostles' in its rarer sense of church pioneers/missionaries breaking new ground. It must at least mean this, since it does not do justice to the Greek construction to translate it as "the apostles held them in high esteem" or "in the eyes of the apostles." So, she was probably one of this wider circle of 'other apostles.' But, from a strict reading of the Greek, it could mean that she was an apostle as this term is usually understood. This is not likely, but still is rather astonishing. It's safest to assume she was in the second tier of 'apostles' but that is radical enough! She may have seen the Risen Christ, since she was a believer before Paul was. She had clearly become a believer in the earliest days of the church, perhaps even in the final period of Jesus' ministry, if she was a Jew from Galilee or Judea.

Nympha, Prisca, Phoebe, Junia – and female leadership in the early church

So, how can this be reconciled with the more-famous examples of Paul's view on women in leadership? The following suggestion may help us make sense of this complex situation. Many of Paul's doctrinal letters were written in response to specific pastoral situations. Consequently, it can be argued that the varied responses regarding women occurred because the particular issues and problems kept changing: a group of impressive female leaders here, versus a group of radical (perhaps poorly self-disciplined?) women there; women leading house churches in these places, versus some women succumbing to spiritual conmen in another place. Life is complex.

However we explain it, the women leaders are definitely there; hidden in plain sight. Nympha and her sisters force us to think again about how we view the New Testament church. We might ask why we hear so little about them in our churches today?

Hopefully, the case of Nympha will challenge us to reflect on this, because (clearly) Paul's relationship with women leaders was more complex than is often stated. Among that "cloud of witnesses" are some female ones in places where we might not expect them to be!

Martyn Whittock is an evangelical and a Licensed Lay Minister in the Church of England. He taught history for thirty-five years in comprehensive schools and is now a writer and columnist. As the author, or co-author, of fifty-two books, his work covers a wide range of historical and theological themes. Recent work exploring the roots and the development of Christian beliefs are: Christ The First 2000 Years (2016) and Jesus the Unauthorized Biography (2021). The lives of Nympha and other women of faith are explored in more detail in Daughters of Eve (2021)."

 

1stCenturyLady

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first century lady .
I ask now a real simple question .
Do you see a huge difference between many women in todays churches who rule over this people verses
the true women of CHRIST in that first century . cause i sure seem to notice
not just in the women but in the men that a whole lotta doctrines often get twisted , omitted
and done so unto their own destruction . We gots paula whites and kenneth copelands
popes and many who now offer unto the world
another jesus , another gospel . AND IT SURE is REBELLION to GOD ALL MIGHTY and HIS CHRIST .
Amigo, Actually in this church age of Laodecia with Jesus on the outside knocking, most denominations believe in a much weaker Jesus than His gospel of POWER. That is the true meaning of GRACE. It is not a license to sin, but actually Jesus is not on the outside just covering our sins, but actually taking away all desire to sin as He empowers our conscience and what the church does not believe actually removes the SIN out of our sin nature leaving us with a clean nature. Their Jesus who leaves us with a sin nature is another Jesus.
 

Doug

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"A classic example of women in leadership can be found in Romans 16:1-7. In a long set of greetings at the end of this letter, a number of intriguing women appear. Paul writes:

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae,

so that you may welcome her in the Lord as is fitting for the saints, and help her

in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a benefactor of many and

of myself as well. Greet Prisca [or Priscilla] and Aquila, who work with me in Christ

Jesus, and who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks, but also

all the churches of the Gentiles. Greet also the church in their house. Greet my

beloved Epaenetus, who was the first convert in Asia for Christ. Greet Mary, who

has worked very hard among you. Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who

were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in

Christ before I was."


These seven verses are a mine of information regarding women leaders of the early church. First of all is "Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae." She is specifically described using the Greek word diakonos. In English this becomes "deacon." It should not be translated as "deaconess," as occasionally happens, which gives the impression of a specific female (perhaps subservient sub-role). The female form "deaconess" did not appear until three centuries after Paul wrote and Phoebe is described with a title used for men.

This brings us to Prisca [or Priscilla] and Aquila. These two (woman and man) are mentioned no less than six times in the New Testament. The evidence is found in Acts and in no less than three of Paul's letters. They are always named together and are never named individually. They clearly were a power-couple. Regarding these six references: Aquila's name appears first, twice; but Prisca/Priscilla appears first on four occasions. It is hard to interpret this as anything other than equality of status.

Then there is Junia, and the status of this woman has caused no end of debate. She was a relative of Paul's, became a Christian before he did, and was in prison with him. The reference to her reads as "prominent among the apostles." Despite some attempts to make Junia into a man (as with Nympha) – via a postulated, very rare, male personal-name Junias – the weight of evidence is heavily in favour of it being a female name. Some manuscripts name her as "Julia," which underscores this point. Early church tradition thought she was a woman. We might suspect that some translators and commentators have been inclined (unconsciously perhaps) to assume a male identity for Junia/Julia because this resolves the apparent conundrum of a female apostle. But a female apostle, we must conclude, is exactly what she was. Whatever does that mean?

This is such a revolutionary thought that it has led some commentators to assume that this phrase meant either "in the eyes of the apostles" (since it seems impossible to believe that a woman and an unknown man could have been promoted to this elite inner group), or that it meant 'apostles' in its rarer sense of church pioneers/missionaries breaking new ground. It must at least mean this, since it does not do justice to the Greek construction to translate it as "the apostles held them in high esteem" or "in the eyes of the apostles." So, she was probably one of this wider circle of 'other apostles.' But, from a strict reading of the Greek, it could mean that she was an apostle as this term is usually understood. This is not likely, but still is rather astonishing. It's safest to assume she was in the second tier of 'apostles' but that is radical enough! She may have seen the Risen Christ, since she was a believer before Paul was. She had clearly become a believer in the earliest days of the church, perhaps even in the final period of Jesus' ministry, if she was a Jew from Galilee or Judea.

Nympha, Prisca, Phoebe, Junia – and female leadership in the early church

So, how can this be reconciled with the more-famous examples of Paul's view on women in leadership? The following suggestion may help us make sense of this complex situation. Many of Paul's doctrinal letters were written in response to specific pastoral situations. Consequently, it can be argued that the varied responses regarding women occurred because the particular issues and problems kept changing: a group of impressive female leaders here, versus a group of radical (perhaps poorly self-disciplined?) women there; women leading house churches in these places, versus some women succumbing to spiritual conmen in another place. Life is complex.

However we explain it, the women leaders are definitely there; hidden in plain sight. Nympha and her sisters force us to think again about how we view the New Testament church. We might ask why we hear so little about them in our churches today?

Hopefully, the case of Nympha will challenge us to reflect on this, because (clearly) Paul's relationship with women leaders was more complex than is often stated. Among that "cloud of witnesses" are some female ones in places where we might not expect them to be!

Martyn Whittock is an evangelical and a Licensed Lay Minister in the Church of England. He taught history for thirty-five years in comprehensive schools and is now a writer and columnist. As the author, or co-author, of fifty-two books, his work covers a wide range of historical and theological themes. Recent work exploring the roots and the development of Christian beliefs are: Christ The First 2000 Years (2016) and Jesus the Unauthorized Biography (2021). The lives of Nympha and other women of faith are explored in more detail in Daughters of Eve (2021)."

These seven verses are a mine of information regarding women leaders of the early church. First of all is "Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae.
[Rom 16:1 KJV] 1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Phebe was definitely a women........her being a deacon is not supported......KJV says servant......a deacon is not designated as being a women, but rather a man...........[1Ti 3:12 KJV] 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
Hopefully, the case of Nympha will challenge us to reflect on this, because (clearly) Paul's relationship with women leaders was more complex than is often stated.
NIV Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

[Col 4:15 KJV] 15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
This verse in the KJV says brethren not sisters and Nympha is said to be a man......his house not her house
 

1stCenturyLady

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[Rom 16:1 KJV] 1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Phebe was definitely a women........her being a deacon is not supported......KJV says servant......a deacon is not designated as being a women, but rather a man...........[1Ti 3:12 KJV] 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

NIV Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

[Col 4:15 KJV] 15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
This verse in the KJV says brethren not sisters and Nympha is said to be a man......his house not her house
Yes, the Majority Text/Textus Receptus says "his."
The corrupted Alexandrian text says "her."
 

Lambano

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Phebe was definitely a women........her being a deacon is not supported......KJV says servant......

The same Greek word diakonos is used in both the Romans and the 1 Timothy text. Since Paul entrusted Phoebe with his magnum opus, Phoebe clearly had a position of responsibility and authority in the church at Cenchreae. Yet another case of the KJV translators making a mistake.
 

soberxp

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If a woman really Follow Jesus Christ, Should she become a mute and not be able to speak? It's too absolute for me to understand.

I know that sometimes when a woman serves in a church, she may not accept the right perspective, she may stand up for herself, but I think the same thing happens to men.

What I can understand is that a woman's silence is a conciliatory agent for a man's heated debate in church, A quiet gentle woman, really better than anyone else.

But a question makes me more curious than a quiet woman. How can men and women ensure that their preaching and teaching in the church is correct?
 
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Grailhunter

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If a woman really Follow Jesus Christ, Should she become a mute and not be able to speak? It's too absolute for me to understand.

I know that sometimes when a woman serves in a church, she may not accept the right perspective, she may stand up for herself, but I think the same thing happens to men.

What I can understand is that a woman's silence is a conciliatory agent for a man's heated debate in church, A quiet gentle woman, really better than anyone else.

But a question makes me more curious than a quiet woman. How can men and women ensure that their preaching and teaching in the church is correct?

Things change for a reason….a really good reason.
Women were property back then. First the property of their father’s and then the groom paid for them and they were the property of the husband. That was standard practice in Christianity until the 19th century and beyond.

I believe it was the 9th century that it was debated if women had souls.

Up until 20th century women were not to talk in public, smoke in public, wear pants, or vote.

The Bible never put an end to polygamy or concubinage or slavery.

Wedding Ceremonies were not a requirement to be married until the 16th century.

Thank God things change.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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I'm sure you meant to say that the oldest and most reliable manuscripts say "her".
I meant what I said. The Alexandrian text may be the oldest that we now have in existence today, but it is corrupted with Alexandrian thinking and reasoning. But back when William Tyndale was alive and translated the Bible in the 1500's it wasn't the oldest then. There were other sources. Freezing monks burned them as fuel. Westcott and Holt were atheists and spiritualists. Would you want to use their translation? I sure wouldn't. But all modern Bibles use their translation.
 
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3 Resurrections

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The Church at Thyatira allowed her to teach as a Prophetess, opposing God’s instruction from Saint Paul.
This passage about the woman nicknamed "Jezebel" calling herself a Prophetess is not a condemnation against all women preachers. It is a condemnation against one particular woman who happened to be teaching error to the church in those first-century days. If it is your view that women church leaders were and are forbidden, then you will have a problem with John 2 commending the elect lady who was leading that church in her home, and who John was teaching how to recognize those whom she should not accept into the fellowship.

You (and Doug as well) are mistaking 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 as a directive that Paul authored. It was not. Paul was quoting an excerpt from the Corinthian church's letter to himself, and then Paul proceeded to scold them soundly in 1 Corinthians 14:36-39 for forbidding women to speak in the church assemblies. "FORBID NOT to speak in tongues", Paul told his Corinthian readers. This command from Paul in verse 39 was referring back to the quoted verses 34-35 from the Corinthian letter which was forbidding women to speak, and shows us Paul correcting their restriction on women's verbal participation in the church assembly.

God poured out His Spirit on both men and women in those first-century days, just as Joel had prophesied. Those gifts of speaking in tongues and prophesying by men and women were supposed to be done for the edification of all in the assembly ("...but the one prophesying speaks to men for edification and encouragement and consolation" - 1 Cor. 14:3). The Corinthian's mention of the "law" for women in verses 34-35 was referring to the traditional Jewish oral laws which had been suppressing women from participation - the kind of oral laws of tradition among the Jews which Christ was frequently in stern disagreement with.

The rabbis in that period had been teaching that it was wrong for females to even be instructed in the Torah by their father. To quote one of them, "Better the words of Torah be burned than be entrusted to women." (Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus). Unfortunately, this same mentality had been absorbed by the men of the Corinthian assembly as well.
 
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rockytopva

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Going back in time I would have avoided the "Old Hen" talk... That generally begins with...

* I have a problem with....

In which they are just as bad in their accusations as everyone else. Its like... Yikes! Run fer yer lives! Head for the hills!
 

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This passage about the woman nicknamed "Jezebel" calling herself a Prophetess is not a condemnation against all women preachers. It is a condemnation against one particular woman who happened to be teaching error to the church in those first-century days. If it is your view that women church leaders were and are forbidden, then you will have a problem with John 2 commending the elect lady who was leading that church in her home, and who John was teaching how to recognize those whom she should not accept into the fellowship.

You (and Doug as well) are mistaking 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 as a directive that Paul authored. It was not. Paul was quoting an excerpt from the Corinthian church's letter to himself, and then Paul proceeded to scold them soundly in 1 Corinthians 14:36-39 for forbidding women to speak in the church assemblies. "FORBID NOT to speak in tongues", Paul told his Corinthian readers. This command from Paul in verse 39 was referring back to the quoted verses 34-35 from the Corinthian letter which was forbidding women to speak, and shows us Paul correcting their restriction on women's verbal participation in the church assembly.

God poured out His Spirit on both men and women in those first-century days, just as Joel had prophesied. Those gifts of speaking in tongues and prophesying by men and women were supposed to be done for the edification of all in the assembly ("...but the one prophesying speaks to men for edification and encouragement and consolation" - 1 Cor. 14:3). The Corinthian's mention of the "law" for women in verses 34-35 was referring to the traditional Jewish oral laws which had been suppressing women from participation - the kind of oral laws of tradition among the Jews which Christ was frequently in stern disagreement with.

The rabbis in that period had been teaching that it was wrong for females to even be instructed in the Torah by their father. To quote one of them, "Better the words of Torah be burned than be entrusted to women." (Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus). Unfortunately, this same mentality had been absorbed by the men of the Corinthian assembly as well.
Thank you for reading my Gospel Tract; may it's Point be a Burr under your Theological Saddle...
 

Taken

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Women are not prohibited from talking in church. Women are restricted from teaching in the public setting of the local church.
Agree
Women and Men are assigned specific functions in the church by God.
Agree.
[1Co 14:27-28 KJV] 27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Agree.
Speaking in tongues was speaking in a foreign language.
Agree.
Not only are women to keep silence in the church, but in verse 28 men are to keep silence as well if there is no interpreter.

Agree.
Women were not to ask questions in public. They were to respect the headship of the husband and ask him at home.
Agree.

Women are given duties and functions that only they can perform. Women could not teach over the men in the public local church but were given other ministries. They could teach children and young women. They could be teachers of good things.
Agree.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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