Chuck Missler Proves The Pre-Trib Rapture

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MA2444

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Well...No...he did not "prove" anything but his own lack of understanding. And he contradicted other scriptures to make his case.

Ok...?? WHat points were wrong and why? What are your supporting scriptures? You have no answer better than anyone else. No proof. No scriptures. No counter points...nothing. SO on what am I to make the determination that chuck is wrong, the rapture cant be pre trib?

Do I go by your word? (I dont know you). Your reputation? Reputation based on what? I'm sorry Brother but you havent said anything edifying or revelatory with regard to the rapture.

Nice try though!
 

FearTheLord

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Unbiblical? Unprovable? Unbiblical in what way? Where?

And if the rapture happened in 70 AD then where are your supporting scriptures for that? Were they typed in disappearing ink or something? You got to give us more than if you dont want us to chuckle...
Read Matt 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21. That was about the events leading up to the destruction of the temple. It was all fulfilled by 70 AD.
 

rebuilder 454

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Are cell phones, cars, airplanes, computers, wireless, drones, submarines and fake moon landings required for Salvation?
No

God only speaks to that which HE deemed necessary for our Faith unto Salvation:
a.) Genesis
b.) OT Prophets - includes Moses/Five Books, Psalms and Proverbs
c.) His First Coming
d.) His Gospel
e.) Acts/Holy Spirit
f.) the Apostles
g.) Revelation
h.) His Second Coming

These all pertain to the Gospel, Judgment of the World and our walk with Him until His Return = His Second Coming

Can you SEE how our FATHER wrote a Book for His Children?

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.
There are no postrib rapture verses.
Instead you take the pretrib rapture verses, such as, " before The flood" in Matt 24 and the virgin parable of Matt 25 and change them around in hopes of at least 1 postrib rapture hoax.
Nothing original.
Then go after missler personally (attack the messenger, since he outclasses every postribber ).
The reason you guys go personal is because your deal is extra biblical.
Your main argument is ALWAYS SOME ARGUMENT in attacking the messenger, or some dimension outside scripture.
Darby
Lahaye
Lindsay
Ancient dead church fathers.

Then when actual verses are presented, your JOB is to go against verses.
It is a shame that simple verses such as the virgins all portrayed as believers in Matt 25, as well as "BEFORE THE FLOOD " of Matt 24 it says "one taken/left" , your doctrine has you making it your job to twist the bible.
" virgins are not virgins"
"Before is actually after"
" half the planets population is saved half wicked"
...and no red flags??????
Postribbers carry a banner.
It is red. Red flag steroids ( just take them and pooof! The bible is changeable!!!!)
They proudly wave their red flag
Jumping up and down.

Pure last days deception.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Missler never proved pre-trib rapture in the video.

Saying pre-trib does not make it true except in your own mind.

#1a TRUTH - God NEVER said anywhere in His word - 'pre-trib' rapture.

#1b TRUTH - JESUS spoke AGAINST pre-trib rapture.

#1c TRUTH - the Holy Spirit, speaking thru the Apostles spoke AGAINST pre-trib raptureol
1) you never did provide scripture.
2) you are forbidden, as is every postribber from any investigation.

You , in your chosen methodology are GUARANTEED deception.
 

rebuilder 454

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Read Matt 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21. That was about the events leading up to the destruction of the temple. It was all fulfilled by 70 AD.
" before the flood" of Matt 24 as well as " one taken / one left" are pretrib dynamics with zero to do with postrib rapture.
Never has been ANY postrib RAPTURE verses.
 
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MA2444

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Read Matt 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21. That was about the events leading up to the destruction of the temple. It was all fulfilled by 70 AD.

You mean it's not Begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation...so we're starting to narrow it down a little!

Ok, I have read Matthew, Mark and Luke and I can't see where it says the rapture happened in 70 AD. You gonna help a Brother out or leave me hanging? Because Matthew, Mark, Luke doesn't narrow it down much at all.
 

David in NJ

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1) you never did provide scripture.
2) you are forbidden, as is every postribber from any investigation.

You , in your chosen methodology are GUARANTEED deception.
Well Good Morning to you also...........................lolx100 on the "forbidden" comment
 

David in NJ

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There are no postrib rapture verses.
Instead you take the pretrib rapture verses, such as, " before The flood" in Matt 24 and the virgin parable of Matt 25 and change them around in hopes of at least 1 postrib rapture hoax.
Nothing original.
Then go after missler personally (attack the messenger, since he outclasses every postribber ).
The reason you guys go personal is because your deal is extra biblical.
Your main argument is ALWAYS SOME ARGUMENT in attacking the messenger, or some dimension outside scripture.
Darby
Lahaye
Lindsay
Ancient dead church fathers.

Then when actual verses are presented, your JOB is to go against verses.
It is a shame that simple verses such as the virgins all portrayed as believers in Matt 25, as well as "BEFORE THE FLOOD " of Matt 24 it says "one taken/left" , your doctrine has you making it your job to twist the bible.
" virgins are not virgins"
"Before is actually after"
" half the planets population is saved half wicked"
...and no red flags??????
Postribbers carry a banner.
It is red. Red flag steroids ( just take them and pooof! The bible is changeable!!!!)
They proudly wave their red flag
Jumping up and down.

Pure last days deception.
Rapture TRUTH = The Bible begins with Post-Trib in Genesis

Gospel Rapture TRUTH = Matthew ch24

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

MA2444

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Rapture TRUTH = The Bible begins with Post-Trib in Genesis

Gospel Rapture TRUTH = Matthew ch24

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

WHoa! We got a Scripture out of the man!

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other..../KJV

Ok Brother, let's go to Matthew 24! Good choice of scripture and it is indeed talking about the 2nd coming. But if you continue to read right past this passage you (should) see something happen...Jesus changes the subject! Allow me:

Matthew 24:32-46
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing..../KJV

v32, He changes the subject. He's finished talking about the 2nd coming for now and He wants to add in some other things. He may as well have said, let's talk about the rapture now but Jesus just went in to the teaching about the rapture. Parable of the fig tree he said. When it puts forth leaves you know it's coming, summer is near. WHen did Israel put forth new leaves? I think it was May 14th(?) 1948...Israel became a nation again and out forth some new leaves! So it is this generation since then that will not pass away until Jesus comes for His people. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

v36...Nobody knows the day or the hour it will happen. Only the Father right?
v37...it will be just like in the days of Noah at this time. What were the days of Noah like? Nephilim, very much widespread evil and our scientists are all trying to develop Super Soldiers for the battle field, right? Many parallels. So it is sorta like it was in the days of Noah. EVer seen a sasquatch? They are prolly modern day Nephilim! And highly intelligent.
v38...everyone is eating & partying and gendering and gtbqzwhatever'ing Pure evil. Sounds familiar!
v39...and they didnt know anything until it started raining when the Son of Man (Jesus) came to rescue His people. But only 8 people were allowed on the ark and they all laughed and said (post trib!) and so had to experience the worst...
v40...Then (at the Rapture), two (Believers will be in the field. One is Raptured and one one is left behind. (To more fully learn Love?)
v41...Two women grinding at the mill, both Believers but one is pre trib and one is post trib! One is taken, one is left. (They weren't watching!)
v42...Therefore, Watch! You don't know exactly when it will be! Could that mean watch sooner rather than later? Hmmm.
v43...that if the goodman (That's You) of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up...Oh, he is the one who is supposed to know better as the leader of the home!.
V44...Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh....That's Jesus! Right? So Jesus will be coming and gathering His people. Not the Angels this trip like was mentioned in v31 when He was still talking about the 2nd coming, before He changed the subject! The Angels do the gathering at the 2nd coming, Jesus draws us to Him in the air when He comes. It says so! Are you with me?
v45...Tell people the rapture is sooner rather than later!
v46...You will be Blessed if the Lord finds you doing His work when He comes! But if you are off on a tangent putting down the Chuck Misslers of the world...maybe not!
v47...Be teaching the right thing when Jesus comes!
v48, 49... But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, (Chuck Missler!) and to eat and drink with the drunken;...
v50, 51...Is a warning of what happens to those people! (Yikes!)

Hope to see you there Brother, on the raptured side!
 

FearTheLord

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" before the flood" of Matt 24 as well as " one taken / one left" are pretrib dynamics with zero to do with postrib rapture.
Never has been ANY postrib RAPTURE verses.
[Mat 24:29-31 NASB95] 29 "But immediately after THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
 

FearTheLord

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You mean it's not Begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation...so we're starting to narrow it down a little!

Ok, I have read Matthew, Mark and Luke and I can't see where it says the rapture happened in 70 AD. You gonna help a Brother out or leave me hanging? Because Matthew, Mark, Luke doesn't narrow it down much at all.
[Mat 24:29-31 NASB95] 29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
 

MA2444

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[Mat 24:29-31 NASB95] 29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

I'm sorry but, what is your point? That's a valid 2nd coming scripture that I agree with...

But can you see that Jesus changed the subject in v32?
 

MA2444

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If you pay attention to the text you can see that He isnt talking about when the sun & moon dont give their light after the tribulation anymore he changes to taking about when Israel sprouts leaves again. That was in 1948. WOuld you say they have grown any since then? You bet they have. But it's very easy to see that Jesus isn't talking about after the tribulation any more. The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is not about the 2nd coming. He answered all 3 of their questions, then changed the subject and added to it with more info...about the rapture.

Verse 32...questions answered. Now let's talk about the rapture...No way is this post trib.
 

FearTheLord

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I'm sorry but, what is your point? That's a valid 2nd coming scripture that I agree with...

But can you see that Jesus changed the subject in v32?
Jesus didn't really change the subject on v32. He introduced a time-sensitive parable, assuring his disciples that specific generation would not pass until those things took place.

The apostle understood this as Jesus returning within their generation, and that's the exact promise Jesus repeated multiple times to them in the Book of Revelation.

[Rev 1:1 NASB95] 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated [it] by His angel to His bond-servant John,

[Rev 1:3 NASB95] 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

[Rev 2:25 NASB95] 25 'Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.

[Rev 3:10-11 NASB95] 10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that [hour] which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

[Rev 22:10 NASB95] 10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

[Rev 22:12 NASB95] 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

[Rev 22:20 NASB95] 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.​
 

Dan Clarkston

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Chuck Missler is a real good teacher, rip Chuck.

Not so much... he taught the false doctrines of so called "once saved, always saved" so he was not very accurate.

He certainly was unaware that the rapture does not happen until after the man of sin is revealed (anti-christ)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition


*The phrase ”Gathering together”
Strongs 1997 = from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship): -- assembling (gathering) together.
Strongs 1996 = from 1909 and 4863; to collect upon the same place: KJV -- gather (together).

*The phrase ”Falling Away”
Strongs 646 = feminine of the same as 647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"): KJV -- falling away, forsake.
Strongs 647 = neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of 868; properly, something separative, i.e. (specially) divorce: KJV -- (writing of) divorcement.
Strongs 868 = from 575 and 2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: KJV -- depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

*Same word is translated “forsake” in Acts 21:21 - so this is what the word means: many will forsake the Lord (speaking of those that were Christians but fall away)

Definitions point to the rapture not happening until many who claim to be Christians fall away from the faith, and the anti-christ is revealed

This would mean the traditional pre-trib rapture view could not be correct
where Christians are taken out before the anti-christ is revealed, but instead Christians will be here leading up to the start of the anti-christ coming to power

Some claim the word translated “falling away” really means rapture… if that were true, then 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 would say the rapture won't happen until the rapture happens and the anti-christ be revealed which it does NOT say.
 
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Skovand

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Revelation seems to have been written pseudonymously around 90ad or later in the name
of John and was canonized in the late 300s or early 400s. The book seems to have been written after the events of the destruction of the second temple. There are no allusions to a rapture in the Bible without heavily forced and biased interpretations of it.


 

doctrox

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From the OP:

Chuck Missler Proves The Pre-Trib Rapture​

Since the thesis of the OP is predicated on the credibility of Chuck Missler, it would be wise to first examine the work of the man and his attempts to rewrite church history to fit his theological beliefs.

Another Calvary Chapel figure, Missler uses the tactic of misrepresenting his theological opponent's motives and beliefs. Concerning post-tribulationists, Missler recently said "It's interesting today to see the hostility that occurs...the post-tribulationists, all kinds of people are angry, hostile, 'cause we're taking Israel seriously, Biblically. Interesting reaction. I often feel by their non-love whether or not they're non-Christians...."1

This is typical of the subtle sleight that goes on in this seamy slander. Chuck Missler is deliberately attempting to put forth the proposition that post-tribulationists are not really hostile about being fired from their ministries for their views, they're not upset at being thrown off radio stations for reading scripture on the air, they're not angry because the rapturists have repeatedly lied concerning the historical record, they're not upset at all about the lying pastors defending a false doctrine as they attempt to suppress any opposing views; instead he says post-tribulationalists are upset because "we [the rapturists] take Israel seriously"!2

He then has the nerve to suggest that when individuals emotionally react to the repeated thefts, intellectual dishonesty, blatant lies, and underhanded attacks for simply disagreeing with a dubious doctrine, he can't help but "...feel by their non-love whether or not they're non-Christians."3 Incredible!

The fact is, Chuck Missler has been getting away with literary murder for so long he seems to think he has a scholarly license to kill. In a series of commercially marketed audio tapes entitled The Feasts of Israel, The Seventy Weeks Of Daniel, and others, Chuck reveals the lengths he is willing to go in the pursuit of his pre-trib holy grail. In these tapes (apparently recorded at various live presentations), he grossly misrepresents historical reality to such a degree that he must be convinced no-one in the audience has a library. Either that, or he figures all his students are too lazy to bother to look up the actual citations he so maliciously misrepresents.

The following is a word for word transcription taken from three public presentations by Chuck Missler concerning the pre-tribulation rapture:

"In the early church...it was clearly the doctrine. The Bible teaches, and the early church taught that the Lord was to be expected at any moment. If there are any post-tribulationists here, I apologize, but that's the truth...pre-tribulationism did not start with Darby, it started in the first century. I won't get into that one here. [Contrary to his last statement, he then proceeds to 'get into that one.']4

"This idea [the pre-trib rapture] is not a new idea. There's a myth going around that this is all a recent invention. You can find the ideas in The Epistle of Barnabas, which is in the 1st century....Irenaeus, in his Against Heresies, Hippolytus, in the 2nd century, Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho...."5

"...Augustine, and others all had this thing of the 2nd coming being very close. Specific dates were predicted by Joachim of Floris in 1260...Joseph Mede in 1660, William Whiston in 1715, and then again in 1734, and then again in 1866. J A Bengel in 1836...William Miller predicted the famous events in 1843. And then again in October 22 of 1844. CT Russell declared 1874 as the definite date...."6

"One of the recent discoveries of just a year ago is some writings of Ephraem the Syrian....One of the most prolific writers for the Eastern Orthodox Church is a person by the name of Ephraem The Syrian...He wrote in the 4th century...they discovered a manuscript in which in one of his sermons called On The Last Times, Antichrist And The End Of The World, you find this phrase 'for all the saints and elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come that are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.' Interesting phrase...this doesn't prove the doctrine's correct, but it's interesting it was held in the very early times."7 [emphasis mine]

This tactic has worked so well at Missler's speaking engagements that, by my count, he's used this boilerplate speech dozens of times for at least several years. Let's look at the actual facts. First and foremost, let's set the record straight. Not one early historical figure mentioned by Chuck Missler ever held to a pre-tribulation rapture. In his impressive linguistic legerdemain, Missler does not offer a single quote from the historical figures he mentions. The one quote he inaccurately attributed to "Ephraem The Syrian," is not only NOT a Pre-Trib rapture citation, it was not even written by Ephraem!

I'll now attempt a point-by-point, and name-by-name refutation of Missler's twisted account of Christian history.

1- MISSLER'S TWIST
"There's a myth going around that this [the pre-tribulation rapture] is all a recent invention."

THE TRUTH
Dozens of books and scholars have succinctly documented the fact that the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine originated in 1830, with a young Scottish woman named Margaret MacDonald. Dave MacPherson's research has taken 30 years, and has culminated in eight titles. While earlier historians originally attributed the doctrine to MacDonald's contemporaries John Darby and Edward Irving, MacPherson's laborious efforts have demonstrably proved the doctrine originated in an extremely questionable circle of Scots operating with occultic overtones.

2- MISSLER'S TWIST
"You can find these ideas [the pre-trib rapture] in The Epistle Of Barnabas, which is in the first century...."

THE TRUTH
"The final stumbling-block is near...Therefore we are to pay attention in the last days; for the whole time of our faith will profit us nothing unless now in this lawless time we resist also the coming stumbling blocks...in order that the Black One [Antichrist] may not have a way of slipping in." (Barnabas, Epistle of Barnabas, 4:3-9)

3- MISSLER'S TWIST
"...Irenaeus, in his Against Heresies"

THE TRUTH
Irenaeus is a close link to the disciples for he was taught by Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostle John. Concerning the 10 kings of the Apocalyptic period, Irenaeus wrote "And they will...give their kingdom to the Beast and put the church to flight." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5:26.1)

In another quote, Irenaeus again places the church in the tribulation, as he quotes Revelation's author John: "But he indicates the number of the name now [666] in order that when this man comes we may avoid him by being aware who he is." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5.30)

4- MISSLER'S TWIST
"Pre-tribulationism...started in the first century...You can find these ideas in...Hippolytus, in the 2nd century."

THE TRUTH
Hippolytus wrote concerning "...the one thousand two hundred and three score days [half of the 70th week] during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the church....(Hippolytus, Treatise On Christ and Antichrist, 61)

5- MISSLER'S TWIST
"In the early church...it [the pre-trib rapture] was clearly the doctrine...Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho...."

THE TRUTH
Justin wrote the following concerning The Antichrist during the tribulation period: "The man of apostasy...shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians." (Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho, 110)

6- MISSLER'S TWIST
"This idea [pre-trib] is not a new idea...it started in the first century...Augustine, and others all had this thing of the 2nd coming being very close."

THE TRUTH
In his seminal work concerning prophecy, Augustine (354-430) wrote "the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the church...." (Augustine, The City Of God, XX, 23)

In a recurring tactical shift, Missler mentions date setters in the same context as his citations of alleged early pre-tribulationists. Utilizing this intrinsically deceitful method, Chuck Missler indirectly implies the historical figures he is mentioning believed in the pre-tribulation rapture - when in fact they did not.

7- MISSLER'S TWIST
"This is nothing new, by the way, Joachim of Floris started setting dates of the 2nd coming, the rapture of the church, and all this in 1260."

THE TRUTH
First of all, Joachim of Floris died in 1202, so it's highly unlikely he was setting any dates in the year 1260. Assuming Mr. Missler actually meant 1260 as the projected date that Joachim set for what Missler has termed "the 2nd coming, the rapture of the church, and all this...," we still see problems. Even if he set this date while on his deathbed in 1202, he would have expected 51 years (the difference between 1202 & 1260 - minus a 7 year tribulation) to ensue before the rapture - hardly an imminent expectation. Assuming the 1260 date as simply Joachim's predicted 2nd coming, it is self-evident he was deducting the year for day scenario applied to the 1260 day period of Revelation 12:6 - in short, Joachim expected the return of Christ after the 1260 days, i.e. Joachim was definitely a post-tribulationist.

...continued...
 
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doctrox

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8- MISSLER'S TWIST
"This idea [pre-trib] is not a new idea. You can find these ideas in...Joseph Mede in 1660...."

THE TRUTH
Three eminent prophecy experts, Alexander Reese, in The Approaching Advent of Christ, George Eldon Ladd in The Blessed Hope, and James Graham in Watchman What Of The Night, all state that without doubt, Joseph Mede was a pre-millennial Post-Tribulationist.

9- MISSLER'S TWIST
"Specific dates were predicted by...William Whiston in 1715...."

THE TRUTH
William Whiston was an historian who believed the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6 were 1260 years. Whiston's suggested return of Christ was based on his belief that Christ would return for his church AFTER the 1,260 day/year tribulation. "It is obvious...no idea of a pre-tribulation rapture could be possible, for in this interpretation the period of tribulation was not 1,260 days but 1,260 years." (The Blessed Hope, George Eldon Ladd, page 331)

10- MISSLER'S TWIST
"It started in the first century...CT Russell declared 1874 as the definite date."

THE TRUTH
Charles Taze Russell never embraced the pre-trib rapture, which all admit had begun to be propagated by this time. He did predict the return of Christ on certain dates. Russell wrote "Some wrongfully expect a literal fulfillment of the symbolic statements of the Bible. Such hope to see the glorified Jesus coming seated on a white cloud where every human eye will see him...Since no earthly men have ever seen the Father...neither will they see the glorified Son." (CT Russell, From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, page 185)

Obviously, if he didn't believe Christ would physically return at all, Russell couldn't very well assert a secret rapture preceding a physical return 7 years later. Although his foolish followers were once known as the Darby Bible Students, later the group became known by their current name, The Jehovah's Witnesses. Incedible as it may sound, Chuck Missler is apparently so desperate for evidence to scratch his hapless listeners' itching ears, he is actually trying to use the founder of the Non-Christian Jehovah's Witnesses Cult to support the pre-tribulation rapture fallacy. The dog has indeed returned to his own vomit.

11- MISSLER'S TWIST
"One of the most prolific writers...is a person by the name of Ephraem the Syrian...they discovered a manuscript...in which one of his sermons called On The Last Times, Antichrist, and The End Of The World...you find this phrase - 'For all the saints and elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come that are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins'...it reveals the fact [the Pre-Trib doctrine] was held in the very early times."

THE TRUTH
First, while Ephraem the Syrian was indeed a noteworthy 4th century figure, the quote Missler is citing was not written by Ephraem! It comes from a document that is a known forgery that historians universally identify as Pseudo-Ephraem. Incredibly, Missler conveniently forgot to mention that "minor" detail.8 Pseudo-Ephraem is placed somewhere between the 4th and the 7th centuries.

Second, a balanced reading of the entire text of Pseudo-Ephraem clearly shows the writer (whoever he was), as well as the real Ephraem, were actually both post-tribulationists! Because of other statements in the document that I will shortly cite, it becomes clear that the "...Christians are 'gathered' away from the wicked in earthly settings before the tribulation and then are 'taken' closer to the Lord when the tribulation intensifies."9

One of the world's leading scholars on Pseudo-Ephraem, a writer named Paul Alexander, shows how the phrasing had a non-rapture meaning to the Eastern Orthodox readers of Pseudo-Ephraem's period. Alexander writes that the phrase "taken to the Lord really means 'participate at least in some measure in beatitude.'"10 Professor Robert Gundry writes "To what might a being gathered and taken to the Lord that is going on right now refer? Answer: to being evangelistically gathered and taken to the Lord in Christian conversion...compare the American evangelical lingo of 'bringing people to Christ.'"11

Furthermore, in Section 2, the author of Pseudo-Ephraem writes "...there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one...."12

This straightforward statement clearly contradicts a pre-trib understanding of Missler's quote, for Pseudo-Ephraem obviously expects the Antichrist to be revealed before any rapture.

In Section 4 of Pseudo-Ephraem, concerning the tribulation period, we see "In those days people will not be buried, neither Christian, nor heretic...."13 Apparently, Pseudo-Ephraem also sees Christians in the tribulation in this verse.

Section 10 of Pseudo-Ephraem describes Christ's return in conjunction with "...the angelic trumpet [that] precedes Him...." The passage then says this trumpet, which sounds identical to Paul's last trump of 1 Cor 15:52 & 1 Thes 4:16 "will sound and declare 'Arise, O sleeping ones, arise, meet Christ, because his hour of judgment has come! Then Christ will come and the enemy will be thrown into confusion, and the Lord will destroy him by the spirit of His mouth...."14 This is a very clear description of the post-tribulational resurrection of the church in conjunction with the destruction of the Antichrist.

It's worth noting that in addition to Pseudo-Ephraem's plain statement that "...there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one,"15 the Real Ephraem The Syrian wrote concerning his personal prophetic expectation that "Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our enemy, Antichrist, appear...."16

Chuck Missler's willingness to utilize a notorious cult leader's quotes (CT Russell of The Jehovah Witnesses) in addition to a known forgery which he represents as the genuine article (claiming it was written by Ephraem instead of Pseudo-Ephraem), is not his last effort at scraping the bottom of the barrel in his attempt to prop up his unscriptural doctrine. It gets worse.

In Colorado in late 1996 at something called the Steeling The Mind Conference (they apparently missed the letter A in steeling), Missler was the featured speaker promoting the pre-trib rapture. In addition to the fact that during his hour presentation he repeatedly lied with the quotations listed above, he read only a total of 4 Bible verses. The majority of his arguments were drawn from citations in the Babylonian Talmud, and what he termed "kabbalistic considerations" which he admitted he found "intriguing."17

For those that are unfamiliar with these works, the Babylonian Talmud and the Jewish Kabbalah are a series of dark writings that are deeply associated with Black Magic, Freemasonry, Gnosticism, Jewish Traditions, and multiple forms of occultic spiritism. He might as well have been citing from Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible! I suppose the cult will now accuse me of being anti-Semitic since I've denounced the Jewish Kabbalah. Once again, every word of this is on tape and is available from Chuck Missler's own ministry.


FOOTNOTES:

1. The 70 Weeks of Daniel Audio, Chuck Missler, 1991, Koinonia House, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

2. ibid.

3. ibid.

4. The Feasts of Israel Audio, Chuck Missler, 1993, Koinonia House, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

5. Steeling The Mind of America - Rapture: Who, What, When, Where and How, Chuck Missler, 1996, Compass International, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

6. Feasts Of Israel, Missler

7. Steeling The Mind, Missler

8. ibid.

9. Quoted from MacPherson, The Rapture Plot, pages 270-271

10. Paul J Alexander, The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition, page 210; cited by MacPherson, The Rapture Plot, page 272.

11. Robert Gundry, First The Antichrist,: Why Christ Won't Come Before The Antichrist Does, Baker Books, page 176

12. Pseudo-Ephraem, On The Last Times, The Antichrist, And The End Of The World, Section 2; cited by MacPherson, The Late Great Hal Lindsey, page 85

13. Pseudo-Ephraem, On The Last Times, cited by Gundry, First The Antichrist, Postscript, Pseudo-Ephraem on Pre-trib Preparation for a Post-trib Meeting with the Lord, page 164

14. Pseudo-Ephraem, Section 2, cited by Gundry, First The Antichrist, page 169

15. Pseudo-Ephraem, Section 2, cited by MacPherson, Late Great Hal Lindsey, page 85

16. Ephraem The Syrian, Sermo asceticus 1; cited by MacPherson, Late Great, page 85

17. Steeling The Mind of America - Rapture: Who, What, When, Where and How, Chuck Missler, 1996, Compass International, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

-- James
 
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