POSTRIB RAPTURE. A BIBLE ONLY VIEW

[WPM]

Ok. You first part of the 7th seal, here's some more.

Revelation 8
And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

And then you need to go to Revelation 9,10,11 and 16 to get the rest of the events of the 7th seal, Day of the Lord, day of His wrath. And you think His wrath is 30 minutes of silence in heaven. BuuWhaHaaHaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Your logic is so weak. Do you think that the 1st seal is........a white horse? Or do you think we need the rest of the information that follows such as the rider that is upon the white horse and what he does?

Revelation 6
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

The 7 trumpets are a new camera view of the same events.

 

[The Light]

The 7 trumpets are a new camera view of the same events.

A new camera view of what events? Didn't you say that the 7th seal was from the 1st coming to the second coming?

 

[WPM]

A new camera view of what events? Didn't you say that the 7th seal was from the 1st coming to the second coming?

No. Please listen. The 1st to the 6th takes us from the 1st to the 2nd Advent. The 7th seal is the aftermath of Christ coming. Heaven is empty. The New Jerusalem comes to earth.

 

[The Light]

During the 7th seal, the church is not there in heaven,

Strange that there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7, which is right after the 6th seal.
So who is the great multitude in heaven before the 7th seal is opened?

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

but instead with Christ in the air while He takes vengeance on His enemies. That's why there is silence in heaven during the 7th seal. No one is there at that point.

Gee. That's not going to work. What are you going to do with these five months.

Additionally, you said the rapture was just before the 7th trumpet, but that makes no sense.

Revelation 9
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

Your inability to see the parallels between the seals, trumpets and vials is the reason that you don't understand this.

I see perfectly. No seals have been opened as of yet, and when they are, they will be opened in order, 1 thru 7. The seventh seal is the Day of the Lord, which is the wrath of God. The trumpets and vials occur during the 7th seal.

 

[The Light]

No. Please listen. The 1st to the 6th takes us from the 1st to the 2nd Advent. The 7th seal is the aftermath of Christ coming. Heaven is empty. The New Jerusalem comes to earth.

According to the Word of God this will not work. The second coming occurs at the 6th seal and there will be a harvest, the gathering from heaven and earth. That is why there is a great multitude in heaven. The seventh seal happens after the 6th seal. The tribulation is over at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Then the 7th seal is opened and the one-year wrath of God begins. The second advent occurs after Armageddon which happens after the 6th trumpet is blown and the 6th vial is poured.

There is both a second coming when Jesus remains in the clouds.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

and a second advent when Jesus stands on the mount of Olives.

Zechariah 14
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

[WPM]

According to the Word of God this will not work. The second coming occurs at the 6th seal and there will be a harvest, the gathering from heaven and earth. That is why there is a great multitude in heaven. The seventh seal happens after the 6th seal. The tribulation is over at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Then the 7th seal is opened and the one-year wrath of God begins. The second advent occurs after Armageddon which happens after the 6th trumpet is blown and the 6th vial is poured.

There is both a second coming when Jesus remains in the clouds.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

and a second advent when Jesus stands on the mount of Olives.

Zechariah 14
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Where in Revelation 6 or 7 (or anywhere else in the Bible) does it say that there will be a "one-year wrath of God"?

 

[jeffweeder]

Allow me.

The time that Job speaks of is AFTER the wrath of God.............until thy wrath be past.

Job 14
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

However we can see that many of the people of Daniel are raised at the end of the great tribulation. The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened.

The time in the book of Daniel when many are raised, occurs at the end of the tribulation. Tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.

 

[The Light]

12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.

There are men that will not awake until after the wrath of God. These are those in Jobs time and before.

Job 14
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Then there are those that will rise before the wrath of God, immediately after the tribulation of those days. This occurs at the 6th seal and is about the people of Daniel when MANY are raised.............NOT ALL............MANY.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This occurs at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Then there is the Church that is in heaven before the seals opened. The dead in Christ rise first and the then Lord returns for the alive that remain.

1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lor

 

[The Light]

Where in Revelation 6 or 7 (or anywhere else in the Bible) does it say that there will be a "one-year wrath of God"?

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

We can tell this occurs at the 6th seal.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

The Day of the Lord is the 7th seal which will obviously be opened and occur after the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord which is the one-year wrath of God.

 

[David in NJ]

There are men that will not awake until after the wrath of God. These are those in Jobs time and before.

Job 14
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Then there are those that will rise before the wrath of God, immediately after the tribulation of those days. This occurs at the 6th seal and is about the people of Daniel when MANY are raised.............NOT ALL............MANY.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

This occurs at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Then there is the Church that is in heaven before the seals opened. The dead in Christ rise first and the then Lord returns for the alive that remain.

1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lor

There are men that will not awake until after the wrath of God.

100% TRUTH from the Holy Scriptures

These are those in Jobs time and before.

100% FALSE

unless you are speaking of UNSAVED men which includes ALL Unredeemed men from Genesis to the GWT Judgment

Job 14
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Job was never under God's Wrath = try reading His-story of Truth in chapters 1 and 2

 

[rebuilder 454]

Keeping us from "the hour of temptation" involves taking us off of the earth? Not according to Jesus.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Your interpretation of Revelation 3:10 blatantly contradicts what Jesus said in John 17:15 as Jesus prayed that we would NOT be taken off of the earth while being protected from evil (the hour of temptation) while still on the earth. But, I'm talking about scripture here and using scripture to back up my claim instead of just making baseless claims without using scripture to back them up like you do, so I know this must be confusing to you.

Maybe heaven owes Lot an apology.
God broke your irrefutable pattern.
Wow the audacity of heaven.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Any dynamic of more than one coming destroys every single postribber hope of their Doctrine.
Hands down blows it away

 

[The Light]

Job 14
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Job was never under God's Wrath = try reading His-story of Truth in chapters 1 and 2

Try understanding what you are reading.

Job is saying keep me in the grave until the wrath of God is past.

 

[David in NJ]

Try understanding what you are reading.

Job is saying keep me in the grave until the wrath of God is past.

YES = Try reading Job chapter 1 and chapter 2

As of right now, you are the same knucklehead 'friends' of Job whom God rebuked in His Wrath.

And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite,
“My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

i STRONGLY recommend you do as God commanded you and go humble yourself before Him who is the 7 = The Day of REST

 

[rebuilder 454]

You think you can just list verses, claim they support your view and then you've won the debate. I've never seen anything more ridiculous in my life.

Here's how you debate....

I'm going to prove post-trib to you once and for all and you will have no choice but to become a post-trib...

1 Thess 4:14-17
Matthew 24:29-31
2 Thess 1:7-10
Luke 17:26-37
Matt 25:1-13
etc.

All teach post-trib.
Everyone either taken up to Christ or left and killed
Wise virgins raptured, foolish virgins cast out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth
All left out of ark and all left in Sodom killed just like when Jesus comes all not raptured killed
You're wrong. I'm right.
Debate is over.
Sorry, fella. I just destroyed pre-trib.
Pretrib is officially dead.

You left out the pretrib verses.
That is how you debate.

Virgin parable is wise taken pretrib.
Your doctrine has 50% of the earth saved, 50% unsaved.
JESUS used that 50% dynamic TWICE, side by side.
You can't just list verses and magically get the Bible to agree outside context.
You can not reconcile that.
You are wrong, and are proving yourself, to be just that.
But it is nice that you finally opened a bible.

 

[The Light]

YES = Try reading Job chapter 1 and chapter 2

As of right now, you are the same knucklehead 'friends' of Job whom God rebuked in His Wrath.

And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite,
“My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

i STRONGLY recommend you do as God commanded you and go humble yourself before Him who is the 7 = The Day of REST

Understand what you are reading and keep things in context. I strongly recommend that you figure out who the foolish virgins are that think that the Lord delays His coming and smites his fellow servants.

The verses are talking about man lieth down and riseth not till the heavens be no more. Job wants to remain in the grave until the wrath of God................the Day of the Lord is past.

Job 14
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

 

[David in NJ]

Understand what you are reading and keep things in context. I strongly recommend that you figure out who the foolish virgins are that think that the Lord delays His coming and smites his fellow servants.

The verses are talking about man lieth down and riseth not till the heavens be no more. Job wants to remain in the grave until the wrath of God................the Day of the Lord is past.

Job 14
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

GOD strongly recommends you heed His words less you remain as Job's blind 'friends'

Job 1:7-8
So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth,
a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

Job 2:2-3
And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth,
a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?

You are in the same BLIND SPOT as Job's three 'friends'.

God NEVER, not once said Job was under His Wrath.

And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite,
“My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”

The Book of Job, the suffering of Job, and the TRUTH of God utterly destroys the LIE of pre-trib rapture.

Repent from the LIE of pre-trib rapture(lifting up an idol before God) and pray that the LORD will fill you with His Holy Spirit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Maybe heaven owes Lot an apology.
God broke your irrefutable pattern.
Wow the audacity of heaven.

Do you expect to be taken seriously at all? I hope not. These kinds of responses are utterly ridiculous and do nothing to support your case. You are obviously incapable of defending your doctrine, so I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Any dynamic of more than one coming destroys every single postribber hope of their Doctrine.
Hands down blows it away

That's why it's nice that scripture never teaches the nonsense of there being more than one coming of Christ in the future. You certainly are completely incapable of proving that as your ridiculous posts prove over and over again.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Strange that there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7, which is right after the 6th seal.

Where does it say they have bodies and had been raptured? John never said he saw anyone with bodies in heaven. He said he saw the souls of the dead in Christ there (Rev 6:9-11, Rev 20:4).

So who is the great multitude in heaven before the 7th seal is opened?

The souls of all of the dead in Christ who are waiting for the redemption of their bodies.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


Gee. That's not going to work. What are you going to do with these five months.

Are you making any effort at all to read what I say and understand what I believe? Have I not told you multiple times that I see parallels in the book? I'm sure I have. So, I do not see the trumpets as occurring after the seventh seal is opened like you do. So, I believe the fifth trumpet occurs before the sixth seal. So, that's what I do with those five months. Which you should have already known if you actually paid closer attention to what I tell you.

Additionally, you said the rapture was just before the 7th trumpet, but that makes no sense.

No, I did not! You are very obviously not reading anything I'm saying carefully. I believe the rapture occurs upon the sounding of the 7th trumpet as I believe the 7th trumpet is also the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:50-56).

Revelation 9
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

I see perfectly. No seals have been opened as of yet, and when they are, they will be opened in order, 1 thru 7. The seventh seal is the Day of the Lord, which is the wrath of God. The trumpets and vials occur during the 7th seal.

I completely disagree, but I'm losing interest in repeating the same arguments with you over and over. Especially when I know you don't read what I say carefully, anyway. Unless you can bring something new to the table, let's just agree to disagree and move on.