Ah,so now you don't believe in the pre-trib rapture. As opposed to what you said here, Chuck Missler Proves The Pre-Trib Rapture
Admin. Should check into your account.
Chuck Missler Proves The Pre-Trib Rapture
- Thread starter MA2444
- Start date
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Admin. Should check into your account.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
GREAT
SAME as Matt ch24
Let's LOOK
Matt 24:8 - "All these are the beginning of sorrows."
Luke 21:12 - But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons.
Matt 24:9 - "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake."
Luke 21:10 - “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
Matt 24:7 - For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
SAME words of CHRIST from Two Disciples of Christ who walked with Him = Each one saying the SAME thing from their remembrance.
If you look for pre-trib rapture long enough, you will be sure to find one where NONE exist.
Where's my hug?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
True.
Point being …rapture only applies TO those “IN” Christ before tribulation. During….Afterward…those who BELIEVE…and killed are not raptured…they become bodily resurrected…ON a renewed earth and their saved soul returned from heaven to their body’s on earth.
Greet all the brethren with a holy kiss - 1 Thessalonians 5:26
Keep
It
Simple
Saints
KISS the Son = Psalm 2
Here is how you do just that:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days : [/QUOTE]
The “tribulation of those days”…IS:
** Seven seals….opened by the Lamb of God
** Seven trumps…sounded by angels…
First 4 trumps sounded…
.1/3 part of sun & moon darkened.. Rev 8:12
Next 3 trumps sounded are woes…
NOtE* Rev 9:2 AIR darkened world wide by SMOKE rising up from bottomless pit.
….5th trump….Rev 9:3
….6th trump.…Rev 9:13
….7th trump…..Rev 11:15
THEN…
Shall the Son of man BE Revealed..SEEN (not ON Earth)…sitting on a white cloud.
Rev 14:14
[QUOTE[
sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
SHALOM
[/QUOTE]
Earth darkens…
Yes…after the 7 SEALS, 7 TRUMPS….tribulations…
Yes…after the 144,000 (tribes of Israel) preach to the Jews….(on Mt ZION)….after the two witnesses preach in Jerusalem…after an Angel preaches to the whole world the Gospel of Christ Jesus…(rev 14:6)….
THEN is the Son of man seen sitting on a white cloud above the earth.
This is brief…however during the trib…
(7 Seals, 7 Trumps) the inhabitants of the Earth have their last opportunity to Repent, confess Belief and willingly give their body unto DEATH as their testament of Love for the Lord God….and be SAVED….
after Rev 14:6 (angel preaching to the whole world)….the door is closed for opportunity of men to confess belief and receive soul salvation…and willingly give their body unto death for the Lord God….
The last portion of the trib…pouring out vials/bowls….is Gods tribulations, (punishments), wrath (anger), vengeance (avenging the men tormented by men for their beliefs)….
Rev 19:11 does the Lord return with Power.
We live in DAYS of tribulations…men against men…
End days tribulations…come down from Heaven….upon the whole earth….and it’s inhabitants.
Those IN Christ are not appointed to wrath.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The “tribulation of those days”…IS:
** Seven seals….opened by the Lamb of God
** Seven trumps…sounded by angels…
First 4 trumps sounded…
.1/3 part of sun & moon darkened.. Rev 8:12
Next 3 trumps sounded are woes…
NOtE* Rev 9:2 AIR darkened world wide by SMOKE rising up from bottomless pit.
….5th trump….Rev 9:3
….6th trump.…Rev 9:13
….7th trump…..Rev 11:15
THEN…
Shall the Son of man BE Revealed..SEEN (not ON Earth)…sitting on a white cloud.
Rev 14:14
[QUOTE[
sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
SHALOM
[/QUOTE]
Earth darkens…
Yes…after the 7 SEALS, 7 TRUMPS….tribulations…
Yes…after the 144,000 (tribes of Israel) preach to the Jews….(on Mt ZION)….after the two witnesses preach in Jerusalem…after an Angel preaches to the whole world the Gospel of Christ Jesus…(rev 14:6)….
THEN is the Son of man seen sitting on a white cloud above the earth.
This is brief…however during the trib…
(7 Seals, 7 Trumps) the inhabitants of the Earth have their last opportunity to Repent, confess Belief and willingly give their body unto DEATH as their testament of Love for the Lord God….and be SAVED….
after Rev 14:6 (angel preaching to the whole world)….the door is closed for opportunity of men to confess belief and receive soul salvation…and willingly give their body unto death for the Lord God….
The last portion of the trib…pouring out vials/bowls….is Gods tribulations, (punishments), wrath (anger), vengeance (avenging the men tormented by men for their beliefs)….
Rev 19:11 does the Lord return with Power.
We live in DAYS of tribulations…men against men…
End days tribulations…come down from Heaven….upon the whole earth….and it’s inhabitants.
Those IN Christ are not appointed to wrath.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
[/QUOTE]
Those in Christ are not appointed unto the wrath that cometh OF GOD .
But beware of the wrath of man and of the beast and all who do follow it , for they will persecute the true saints .
BUT at the coming of the LORD and at our gathering unto THE LORD
HE will take us up and lay down HIS WRATH against the beast , fp and all who followed it .
SO when we say wrath we mean THE WRATH OF GOD is what we are not appointed unto
But beware the wrath of man , for that TRIBULATION we have been appointed unto . NOW show me my error my friend .
You cannot . I agree we do not GO under the wrath OF GOD HIMSELF which do cometh upon this unrepentant world
the beast and all who worshipped the beast . They will find themselves under the wrath of GOD
on the day HE cometh for his saints . Go on now my dear friend . Do feel free to show me my error . IF so be i am in error .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The wrath of GOD . the wrath that cometh against the beast , fp , etc and all who did worship it .
THAT is what we lambs will not have to endure .
But beware the wickedness of man for he will , the beast will , the men of the dragon will , PERSECUTE THE SAINTS .
Many have bled through all ages at the hands of men gone wrong .
Heavy persecution shall arise against even the saints in western socities . Fear it not . fear not man
fear not to suffer for the glorious cause of Christ .
Remember , BLESSED are you when men shall hate you , cast you out , when ye be persecuted for HIS NAME sake .
be not as the many who now beleive if the world hate you , YOU DONT LOVE
for remember the world will LOVE Its own and if they world love you , THE LOVE of the FATHER BE NOT IN YOU .
IF the unrepentant sinners love those sermons in churches and love to sit week by week in them churches
THEN KNOW and understand that church has become as the world , and the world will love its own .
Know and understand that sinners can love sinners for they expose not the sins of one the other .
They overlook sins and errors and call evil good and good evil .
THE WORLD will embrace this . The world will hate those who are in THE LIGHT
for the light exposes their dark deeds , the light makes manifest .
The world hates ME because i testify that its works are EVIL , said JESUS .
Rather odd that todays churches seem to rather give testimony to a false love that accepts sins , over looks errors
and even has made the road to GOD very darn BROAD indeed . the world will LOVE this message
for it cometh of the world to decieve all within that this love they do preach cometh of GOD . NO SIR it cometh of the darkness .
THAT is what we lambs will not have to endure .
But beware the wickedness of man for he will , the beast will , the men of the dragon will , PERSECUTE THE SAINTS .
Many have bled through all ages at the hands of men gone wrong .
Heavy persecution shall arise against even the saints in western socities . Fear it not . fear not man
fear not to suffer for the glorious cause of Christ .
Remember , BLESSED are you when men shall hate you , cast you out , when ye be persecuted for HIS NAME sake .
be not as the many who now beleive if the world hate you , YOU DONT LOVE
for remember the world will LOVE Its own and if they world love you , THE LOVE of the FATHER BE NOT IN YOU .
IF the unrepentant sinners love those sermons in churches and love to sit week by week in them churches
THEN KNOW and understand that church has become as the world , and the world will love its own .
Know and understand that sinners can love sinners for they expose not the sins of one the other .
They overlook sins and errors and call evil good and good evil .
THE WORLD will embrace this . The world will hate those who are in THE LIGHT
for the light exposes their dark deeds , the light makes manifest .
The world hates ME because i testify that its works are EVIL , said JESUS .
Rather odd that todays churches seem to rather give testimony to a false love that accepts sins , over looks errors
and even has made the road to GOD very darn BROAD indeed . the world will LOVE this message
for it cometh of the world to decieve all within that this love they do preach cometh of GOD . NO SIR it cometh of the darkness .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Marvel not IF the world hate you , if you were OF the WORLD the world would LOVE its own .
Do not be as the many who now beleive that if the world hates us it means our message is non loving and that we do not know love .
For this message is of the world to merge the world and the religoins to be as one .
If the world loves you and accepts your sermons and speeches , WHICH sure let them feel OKAY in SIN
then the love of the world has enslaved you to a lie . a lie which tries to imply that this is the Love of GOD .
WHEN IT AINT at all the LOVE of GOD .
Woe unto you when men shall speak well of you for so did they unto the FALSE PROPHETS
AS THEY DO TODAY i might add . I SEE Lots of unrepentant sinners who justify their sins
sitting in pews and loving the messages given by their so called love churches . THEY LOVE IT , BECAUSE IT IS OF THE WORLD
and it will not expose their sin but rather lets them feel fine in sin .
Beware of men for decievers have abounded and in the name of what they call love and tolerance
HAS SEDUCED this church age right into a LIE .
GET into the bible and learn it for you .
HAD these churches actually preached THE WORDS of GOD it had caused those who sit in it to REPENT OF their wickedness .
BUT THEIR WORDS encourage the sinner. THEY promise them life and none repents of HIS wicked ways .
AND THIS is not a new pattern . What came upon Jerusalem
has come upon Christendom . The prophets preach for hire , for reward
and prophesy smooth things unto this people that none returns from his wickedness
and the peoples love to have it so .
Do not be as the many who now beleive that if the world hates us it means our message is non loving and that we do not know love .
For this message is of the world to merge the world and the religoins to be as one .
If the world loves you and accepts your sermons and speeches , WHICH sure let them feel OKAY in SIN
then the love of the world has enslaved you to a lie . a lie which tries to imply that this is the Love of GOD .
WHEN IT AINT at all the LOVE of GOD .
Woe unto you when men shall speak well of you for so did they unto the FALSE PROPHETS
AS THEY DO TODAY i might add . I SEE Lots of unrepentant sinners who justify their sins
sitting in pews and loving the messages given by their so called love churches . THEY LOVE IT , BECAUSE IT IS OF THE WORLD
and it will not expose their sin but rather lets them feel fine in sin .
Beware of men for decievers have abounded and in the name of what they call love and tolerance
HAS SEDUCED this church age right into a LIE .
GET into the bible and learn it for you .
HAD these churches actually preached THE WORDS of GOD it had caused those who sit in it to REPENT OF their wickedness .
BUT THEIR WORDS encourage the sinner. THEY promise them life and none repents of HIS wicked ways .
AND THIS is not a new pattern . What came upon Jerusalem
has come upon Christendom . The prophets preach for hire , for reward
and prophesy smooth things unto this people that none returns from his wickedness
and the peoples love to have it so .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The “tribulation of those days”…IS:
** Seven seals….opened by the Lamb of God
** Seven trumps…sounded by angels…
First 4 trumps sounded…
.1/3 part of sun & moon darkened.. Rev 8:12
Next 3 trumps sounded are woes…
NOtE* Rev 9:2 AIR darkened world wide by SMOKE rising up from bottomless pit.
….5th trump….Rev 9:3
….6th trump.…Rev 9:13
….7th trump…..Rev 11:15
THEN…
Shall the Son of man BE Revealed..SEEN (not ON Earth)…sitting on a white cloud.
Rev 14:14
[QUOTE[
sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
SHALOM
[/QUOTE]
Earth darkens…
Yes…after the 7 SEALS, 7 TRUMPS….tribulations…
Yes…after the 144,000 (tribes of Israel) preach to the Jews….(on Mt ZION)….after the two witnesses preach in Jerusalem…after an Angel preaches to the whole world the Gospel of Christ Jesus…(rev 14:6)….
THEN is the Son of man seen sitting on a white cloud above the earth.
This is brief…however during the trib…
(7 Seals, 7 Trumps) the inhabitants of the Earth have their last opportunity to Repent, confess Belief and willingly give their body unto DEATH as their testament of Love for the Lord God….and be SAVED….
after Rev 14:6 (angel preaching to the whole world)….the door is closed for opportunity of men to confess belief and receive soul salvation…and willingly give their body unto death for the Lord God….
The last portion of the trib…pouring out vials/bowls….is Gods tribulations, (punishments), wrath (anger), vengeance (avenging the men tormented by men for their beliefs)….
Rev 19:11 does the Lord return with Power.
We live in DAYS of tribulations…men against men…
End days tribulations…come down from Heaven….upon the whole earth….and it’s inhabitants.
Those IN Christ are not appointed to wrath.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your detailed response = allow me time to go over, as i do not want to miss anything
While your response gives much to examine, i will take the KISS approach by taking one point at a time.
My Brother @Taken, let us 'reason together' by allowing our FATHER's words to be of the HIGHEST Calling upon our lives = Together
Many equate "tribulation" with God's wrath which is not precise according to Scripture.
***Note*** - tribulation is also synonymous with "persecution" - like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich = they go together
If "tribulaton" were God's wrath, then JESUS is lying! = and we KNOW HE is not and NEVER did = therefore we BELIEVE His every word
John 16:33 - These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation;
but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
John 15:18-20 - “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.
Matt 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 24:9-14 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Acts 14:22 - And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Romans 5:3 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character;
and character, hope.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
trials
πειρασμοῖς (peirasmois)
Noun - Dative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3986: From peirazo; a putting to proof (of good), experience (of evil), solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication, adversity.
the GREAT TRIBULATION for the Saints - Revelation
Revelation 12:7-12
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Revelation 14:9-13
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write:
‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
To be Continued with MORE VERIFIED TRUTH from the Holy Scriptures on TRIBULATION versus God's WRATH
SHALOM Brother
Last edited:
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Earth darkens…
Yes…after the 7 SEALS, 7 TRUMPS….tribulations…
Yes…after the 144,000 (tribes of Israel) preach to the Jews….(on Mt ZION)….after the two witnesses preach in Jerusalem…after an Angel preaches to the whole world the Gospel of Christ Jesus…(rev 14:6)….
THEN is the Son of man seen sitting on a white cloud above the earth.
This is brief…however during the trib…
(7 Seals, 7 Trumps) the inhabitants of the Earth have their last opportunity to Repent, confess Belief and willingly give their body unto DEATH as their testament of Love for the Lord God….and be SAVED….
after Rev 14:6 (angel preaching to the whole world)….the door is closed for opportunity of men to confess belief and receive soul salvation…and willingly give their body unto death for the Lord God….
The last portion of the trib…pouring out vials/bowls….is Gods tribulations, (punishments), wrath (anger), vengeance (avenging the men tormented by men for their beliefs)….
Rev 19:11 does the Lord return with Power.
We live in DAYS of tribulations…men against men…
End days tribulations…come down from Heaven….upon the whole earth….and it’s inhabitants.
Those IN Christ are not appointed to wrath.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your detailed response = allow me time to go over, as i do not want to miss anything
While your response gives much to examine, i will take the KISS approach by taking one point at a time.
My Brother @Taken, let us 'reason together' by allowing our FATHER's words to be of the HIGHEST Calling upon our lives = Together
Many equate "tribulation" with God's wrath which is not precise according to Scripture.
***Note*** - tribulation is also synonymous with "persecution" - like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich = they go together
If "tribulaton" were God's wrath, then JESUS is lying! = and we KNOW HE is not and NEVER did = therefore we BELIEVE His every word
John 16:33 - These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation;
but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
John 15:18-20 - “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.
Matt 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 24:9-14 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Acts 14:22 - And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Romans 5:3 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character;
and character, hope.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
trials
πειρασμοῖς (peirasmois)
Noun - Dative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3986: From peirazo; a putting to proof (of good), experience (of evil), solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication, adversity.
the GREAT TRIBULATION for the Saints - Revelation
Revelation 12:7-12
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 14:9-13
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write:
‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
To be Continued with MORE VERIFIED TRUTH from the Holy Scriptures on TRIBULATION versus God's WRATH
SHALOM Brother
[/QUOTE]
Spot on right my friend . That is exactly what pre trib has been taught . they make the mistake
of trying to apply the very thing , the very tribulations that come against the true saints by this beast and its co workers
as somehow being equated into the wrath of GOD . NO SIR . YOU SPOT ON RIGHT .
that right there is the PROBLEM with pre trib . they try and include the tribulation of the beast into part of the wrath of GOD .
TO do so they had to invent two comings and scores of other things too .
THIS is a deadly mindset too .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Earth darkens…
Yes…after the 7 SEALS, 7 TRUMPS….tribulations…
Yes…after the 144,000 (tribes of Israel) preach to the Jews….(on Mt ZION)….after the two witnesses preach in Jerusalem…after an Angel preaches to the whole world the Gospel of Christ Jesus…(rev 14:6)….
THEN is the Son of man seen sitting on a white cloud above the earth.
This is brief…however during the trib…
(7 Seals, 7 Trumps) the inhabitants of the Earth have their last opportunity to Repent, confess Belief and willingly give their body unto DEATH as their testament of Love for the Lord God….and be SAVED….
after Rev 14:6 (angel preaching to the whole world)….the door is closed for opportunity of men to confess belief and receive soul salvation…and willingly give their body unto death for the Lord God….
The last portion of the trib…pouring out vials/bowls….is Gods tribulations, (punishments), wrath (anger), vengeance (avenging the men tormented by men for their beliefs)….
Rev 19:11 does the Lord return with Power.
We live in DAYS of tribulations…men against men…
End days tribulations…come down from Heaven….upon the whole earth….and it’s inhabitants.
Those IN Christ are not appointed to wrath.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your detailed response = allow me time to go over, as i do not want to miss anything
While your response gives much to examine, i will take the KISS approach by taking one point at a time.
My Brother @Taken, let us 'reason together' by allowing our FATHER's words to be of the HIGHEST Calling upon our lives = Together
Many equate "tribulation" with God's wrath which is not precise according to Scripture.
***Note*** - tribulation is also synonymous with "persecution" - like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich = they go together
If "tribulaton" were God's wrath, then JESUS is lying! = and we KNOW HE is not and NEVER did = therefore we BELIEVE His every word
John 16:33 - These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation;
but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
John 15:18-20 - “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.
Matt 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 24:9-14 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Acts 14:22 - And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Romans 5:3 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character;
and character, hope.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
trials
πειρασμοῖς (peirasmois)
Noun - Dative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3986: From peirazo; a putting to proof (of good), experience (of evil), solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication, adversity.
the GREAT TRIBULATION for the Saints - Revelation
Revelation 12:7-12
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Revelation 14:9-13
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write:
‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
To be Continued with MORE VERIFIED TRUTH from the Holy Scriptures on TRIBULATION versus God's WRATH
SHALOM Brother
[/QUOTE]
Marvel not IF the world hate you , if you were OF the WORLD the world would LOVE its own .
Do not be as the many who now beleive that if the world hates us it means our message is non loving and that we do not know love .
For this message is of the world to merge the world and the religoins to be as one .
If the world loves you and accepts your sermons and speeches , WHICH sure let them feel OKAY in SIN
then the love of the world has enslaved you to a lie . a lie which tries to imply that this is the Love of GOD .
WHEN IT AINT at all the LOVE of GOD .
Woe unto you when men shall speak well of you for so did they unto the FALSE PROPHETS
AS THEY DO TODAY i might add . I SEE Lots of unrepentant sinners who justify their sins
sitting in pews and loving the messages given by their so called love churches . THEY LOVE IT , BECAUSE IT IS OF THE WORLD
and it will not expose their sin but rather lets them feel fine in sin .
Beware of men for decievers have abounded and in the name of what they call love and tolerance
HAS SEDUCED this church age right into a LIE .
GET into the bible and learn it for you .
HAD these churches actually preached THE WORDS of GOD it had caused those who sit in it to REPENT OF their wickedness .
BUT THEIR WORDS encourage the sinner. THEY promise them life and none repents of HIS wicked ways .
AND THIS is not a new pattern . What came upon Jerusalem
has come upon Christendom . The prophets preach for hire , for reward
and prophesy smooth things unto this people that none returns from his wickedness
and the peoples love to have it so
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your detailed response = allow me time to go over, as i do not want to miss anything
While your response gives much to examine, i will take the KISS approach by taking one point at a time.
My Brother @Taken, let us 'reason together' by allowing our FATHER's words to be of the HIGHEST Calling upon our lives = Together
Many equate "tribulation" with God's wrath which is not precise according to Scripture.
***Note*** - tribulation is also synonymous with "persecution" - like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich = they go together
If "tribulaton" were God's wrath, then JESUS is lying! = and we KNOW HE is not and NEVER did = therefore we BELIEVE His every word
John 16:33 - These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation;
but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
John 15:18-20 - “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’
If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.
Matt 10:28 - And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 24:9-14 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Acts 14:22 - And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying,
“We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Romans 5:3 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character;
and character, hope.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
trials
πειρασμοῖς (peirasmois)
Noun - Dative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 3986: From peirazo; a putting to proof (of good), experience (of evil), solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication, adversity.
the GREAT TRIBULATION for the Saints - Revelation
Revelation 12:7-12
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 14:9-13
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write:
‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
To be Continued with MORE VERIFIED TRUTH from the Holy Scriptures on TRIBULATION versus God's WRATH
SHALOM Brother
[/QUOTE]
Spot on right my friend . That is exactly what pre trib has been taught . they make the mistake
of trying to apply the very thing , the very tribulations that come against the true saints by this beast and its co workers
as somehow being equated into the wrath of GOD . NO SIR . YOU SPOT ON RIGHT .
that right there is the PROBLEM with pre trib . they try and include the tribulation of the beast into part of the wrath of GOD .
TO do so they had to invent two comings and scores of other things too .
THIS is a deadly mindset too .
[/QUOTE]
GREAT TRIBULATION for the Saints means GREAT GRACE and HOLY SPIRIT Power to Overcome
JESUS says: "IAM the WAY...."
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
It is an all out war for the souls of men .
That which is of anti christ the mystery of inquity has long been at work and is now closing in on its peak hour .
Tribulations will get only worse , as they already have been throughout the ages .
Too many are waiting for one they think is coming to work that which is of anti christ , to work this mystery of inquity .
ITS BEEN HERE ALL ALONG . IT has worked through men and kingdoms through the ages .
John warned of it
pual did too .
John warned the church THIS is that which is of anti christ that you heard should come into the world
EVEN NOW IS IT IN THE WORLD .
ITs been here and has long worked through men and now in this final hour its gonna implode into
great darkness and heavy persecutions against the true saints .
Even in pauls day HE said THE worker of this mystery of inqiuty , WAS ALREADY AT WORK and will do so
TILL JESUS COMES TO DESTROY IT , IT WILL BE REVEALED .
Persecutions will get worse .
And the peace and safety of this anti christ lie , this lie they sold to the world , to churches and false religoins
WILL USHER IN THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THIS WORLD . this peace n safety they do holler
IS about bring down SUDDEN DESTRUCTION from ABOVE and they will not escape .
ITS GONNA get worse as long as we are in this world . WE must focus on the gospel and all sound doctrine .
That which is of anti christ the mystery of inquity has long been at work and is now closing in on its peak hour .
Tribulations will get only worse , as they already have been throughout the ages .
Too many are waiting for one they think is coming to work that which is of anti christ , to work this mystery of inquity .
ITS BEEN HERE ALL ALONG . IT has worked through men and kingdoms through the ages .
John warned of it
pual did too .
John warned the church THIS is that which is of anti christ that you heard should come into the world
EVEN NOW IS IT IN THE WORLD .
ITs been here and has long worked through men and now in this final hour its gonna implode into
great darkness and heavy persecutions against the true saints .
Even in pauls day HE said THE worker of this mystery of inqiuty , WAS ALREADY AT WORK and will do so
TILL JESUS COMES TO DESTROY IT , IT WILL BE REVEALED .
Persecutions will get worse .
And the peace and safety of this anti christ lie , this lie they sold to the world , to churches and false religoins
WILL USHER IN THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THIS WORLD . this peace n safety they do holler
IS about bring down SUDDEN DESTRUCTION from ABOVE and they will not escape .
ITS GONNA get worse as long as we are in this world . WE must focus on the gospel and all sound doctrine .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
They gonna merge them all as one under this false love stuff . ITS of ANTI CHRIST bible paige
and yet even inthe protestant realm i get accused by them too when i say other religoins DO NOT know GOD
they must repent and beleive on JESUS the CHRIST . THIS is moving in big time my friend . watch out
co exist , bridgebuilders , finding common ground , etc , ITS ALL been a sham to transform the churchs from within .
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
"we are all sons and daughters of god" = the god of this world is their god
I'm not Catholic. This isn't about Ecumenism.
They'd have to first recognize their sin. Pillorying God is but one hobby I'd venture to guess. He and WMP run the same denial game if you notice.
Only Jersey can't stay steady. First he goes off against the pretrib,then he posts in this same thread he has NEVER posted anything against the pretrib rapture.
It's either a case of severe mental infirmity or,they can't keep their skeptic accounts straight and launch on a reply having forgotten what they said prior. Whatever the case we are not dealing with a sober serious Bible student there.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Spot on right my friend . That is exactly what pre trib has been taught . they make the mistake
of trying to apply the very thing , the very tribulations that come against the true saints by this beast and its co workers
as somehow being equated into the wrath of GOD . NO SIR . YOU SPOT ON RIGHT .
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE} that right there is the PROBLEM with pre trib . they try and include the tribulation of the beast into part of the wrath of GOD .
TO do so they had to invent two comings and scores of other things too .
THIS is a deadly mindset too .
[/QUOTE]
Best you allow me to speak for myself.
Glory to God,
Taken
of trying to apply the very thing , the very tribulations that come against the true saints by this beast and its co workers
as somehow being equated into the wrath of GOD . NO SIR . YOU SPOT ON RIGHT .
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE} that right there is the PROBLEM with pre trib . they try and include the tribulation of the beast into part of the wrath of GOD .
TO do so they had to invent two comings and scores of other things too .
THIS is a deadly mindset too .
[/QUOTE]
Best you allow me to speak for myself.
Glory to God,
Taken
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
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