The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[brightfame52]

It Gives Faith in Christ !

Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Now drawing effects coming as in Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Same word draw as in Jn 12:32 !

And the coming results in not being cast out Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Coming is also the same as believing we derive that from Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Jesus here clearly equates not believing or believing not in Vs 64
with not having been able to come to Him in Vs 65. So if anyone understands drawing to Christ to be anything less than coming to Him believing or in Faith as to Salvation, they are ignorant to the meaning of the drawing [ Divine Power] to Him. Coming to Him denotes Faith in operation Heb 11:6. This drawing and coming is the result of an inward and irresistible call or summons by the voice of the Shepherd Saviour to His Sheep. Jn 10:3-4

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

The word for draw in Jn 12:32 the greek word helkō it also carries the idea of leading:


to draw, drag off

2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Jesus assures that this occurs to all for whom He was lifted up in behalf of ! 13

 

[St. SteVen]

Read my posts throughout the thread, I have explained what the atonement has accomplished and for whom.

I only needed to read the OP to see that you have limited the Atonement to the Elect.
By extension you are claiming that God predestined the majority of humankind to destruction.
Inferring that with malice and forethought such a plan was conceived
with full knowledge of the outcome.

That seems to be a rather low view of my loving and merciful heavenly Father. IMHO

St. SteVen said:
I thought we were.
What does the Atonement accomplish if it is limited to the Elect? (incomplete)

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[brightfame52]

I only needed to read the OP to see that you have limited the Atonement to the Elect.
By extension you are claiming that God predestined the majority of humankind to destruction.
Inferring that with malice and forethought such a plan was conceived
with full knowledge of the outcome.

That seems to be a rather low view of my loving and merciful heavenly Father. IMHO

St. SteVen said:
I thought we were.
What does the Atonement accomplish if it is limited to the Elect? (incomplete)

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

If you reject Limited Effectual Atonement, then you reject the Gospel, and the True God.

 

[St. SteVen]

If you reject Limited Effectual Atonement, then you reject the Gospel, and the True God.

According to you, yes.
That is a brash claim to say that I have rejected "the True God".
You owe me an apology.

 

[brightfame52]

According to you, yes.
That is a brash claim to say that I have rejected "the True God".
You owe me an apology.

Well Limited Atonement is a Doctrine from the True God as I see it from the scripture.

 

[St. SteVen]

Well Limited Atonement is a Doctrine from the True God as I see it from the scripture.

Yes, as you see it. I am fine with that. Much better thanks.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, as you see it. I am fine with that. Much better thanks.

No problem but that wasn't a apology.

 

[St. SteVen]

No problem but that wasn't a apology.

I forgive you.

 

[brightfame52]

Loved us and Washed us from our sins !

Rev 1:5

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Now when did those Christ died for, whom he Loved Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Church here corresponds with us in Rev 1:5

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us[The Church], and washed us[The Church] from our sins in his own blood,

Now when were they Loved by Him and when were they washed from their sins ?

Well as far as the Loving them goes, it was set upon them before the world began. As to the washing them from their sins, legally it happened at His Death, the shedding of His Blood. After having died, and being risen it is stated Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged[or washed our sins away], sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That word purged means:

cleansing, purification, a ritual purgation or washing

a) of the washing of the Jews before and after their meals

b) of levitical purification of women after childbirth

c) a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ

Now what does this mean ? It means that everyone Christ Loved and died for , that before they know anything about it, and while they are yet enemies and unbelievers, children of wrath by nature as others, they have been by the blood of Christ washed from the legal guilt of sins which is Justification from them, purged of that guilt before God. This means that they are Justified from, and forgiven of all their sins. They are before God, legally innocent of any sins being charged by God unto them, now and forever !

This had nothing to do with anything they did ! No, they did not have to believe or repent to get that Legal standing of Justification from all sin before God, Christ did it all and set down at the Right Hand of the Majesty on High !

 

[St. SteVen]

Well Limited Atonement is a Doctrine from the True God as I see it from the scripture.

Did you cut this out of your Bible?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[St. SteVen]

Now what does this mean ? It means that everyone Christ Loved and died for...

For God so loved the Elect that he gave his one and only Son... oops, wait... ???

 

[brightfame52]

Did you cut this out of your Bible?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Thats limited atonement.

 

[brightfame52]

For God so loved the Elect that he gave his one and only Son... oops, wait... ???

Did you understand post 609 ? Lets discuss the scriptures used ?

 

[St. SteVen]

Did you understand post 609 ? Lets discuss the scriptures used ?

Okay.
The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

 

[brightfame52]

Okay.
The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

So what scripture was used to make my point in said post ?

 

[St. SteVen]

So what scripture was used to make my point in said post ?

Said post had a post number. #609.
Not much point in discussing if you can't answer my question.
Here it is again.

The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

 

[brightfame52]

Said post had a post number. #609.
Not much point in discussing if you can't answer my question.
Here it is again.

The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

I knew you would wiggle out of discussing it ! You cant refute the scripture, so you evade with rabbit trail questions. Next time you challenge something I started as in this thread, be prepared to discuss the scripture evidence.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:

Said post had a post number. #609.
Not much point in discussing if you can't answer my question.
Here it is again.

The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

I knew you would wiggle out of discussing it ! You cant refute the scripture, so you evade with rabbit trail questions. Next time you challenge something I started as in this thread, be prepared to discuss the scripture evidence.

What evidence?
You have no evidence to address my question, which you call a rabbit trail.

The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

 

[brightfame52]

St. SteVen said:

Said post had a post number. #609.
Not much point in discussing if you can't answer my question.
Here it is again.

The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

What evidence?
You have no evidence to address my question, which you call a rabbit trail.

The church is a subset of ALL humankind.
How do these scriptures prove that discussion of the subset excludes those outside the subset in reference to the atonement?

You wiggled out of it. May as well move on

 

[St. SteVen]

You wiggled out of it. May as well move on

Did you cut this verse out of your Bible?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.