Limited atonement !

[Lizbeth]

False, that statement isnt in scripture

Scripture teaches that it is by faith. No one is counted as the seed of Abraham spiritually speaking until and unless they come to faith in Christ the Messiah. But God has already foreknown who will and who won't, and He is sometimes speaking from His vantage point, as it were.

Gal 3:5-7

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Rom 9:6-8

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Gal 3:28-29

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Rockerduck]

That never happened to me,I became Born Again with no Bible in sight...... I will share this though, God gave me heart revelation in a church, at first it scared me silly, I didn’t understand it and I said NO out of ignorance and not understanding what he had revealed to my heart.

You are right though, I had to keep going to that church, I could not run away ...I found out eventually by walking in faith and trusting God, that it was He who gave me that heart revelation....it’s a long story and I’m still waiting for the fruit of my labour to come to pass...3 years it took God to bring me to his truth, that he revealed to my heart....

When it does, all Glory will go to God....I was just obedient to what he asked me to do, once I knew that my heart revelation came from him...Praise God always.

I believe you. I was referring to Lizbeth's post of resisting. I was Chosen by Jesus in my room, and He touched me. I prayed and Boom, a mighty Holy Spirit filled me. I stand in the amazed in the presence, of Jesus. No resistance from me.

 

[Lizbeth]

Seems Matt and Luke remembered this differently. Surely there are some teachings by Jesus that suggest those who go astray can be lost.

Amen, plenty of them.

 

[Ritajanice]

Scripture can’t give us faith, faith is a gift from God, a supernatural divine Living gift....Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.....a Living seed...

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe you. I was referring to Lizbeth's post of resisting.

Resisting makes no sense to me...as a Born Again was already chosen and predestined to become a child of God....he gave us to Jesus, when he birthed our spirit into his.

.

I was Chosen by Jesus in my room, and He touched me. I prayed and Boom, a mighty Holy Spirit filled me. I stand in the amazed in the presence, of Jesus. No resistance from me.

I believe you too...mind Blowing Living Spirit birth....Amen!

 

[Lizbeth]

I believe you. I was referring to Lizbeth's post of resisting. I was Chosen by Jesus in my room, and He touched me. I prayed and Boom, a mighty Holy Spirit filled me. I stand in the amazed in the presence, of Jesus. No resistance from me.

Clearly some do resist Him though, whether for a time or for always. Some just choose to take a stance to reject Him no matter what He does.. Jesus Himself rebuked those who were resisting and rejecting Him..."ye do always resist the Holy Spirit". And He said I played the flute for you but you did not dance, I sang a dirge but you did not mourn. Either way we do respond to Him, whether to accept or reject or resist, obey or disobey the gospel, the word of truth.

 

[Lizbeth]

Salvation is given to and limited to a seed, some gentiles are included in that seed. Christ died specifically for a seed, seen vividly here Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The problem is that these things need to be understood by faith, in spirit, not with the carnal mind. They must be spiritually discerned. That is bible truth.

The carnal mind can't hold the truth in spirit, but will carve it in stone of flesh, so to speak, resulting in this case in a fatalistic point of view wrongly thinking that a soul doesn't have any part or choice in accepting Christ's offer of salvation at all and no choice or accountability if they reject it. The scripture clearly says the natural man can't perceive the things of God because they are spiritually discerned. I've seen it over and over again through the years, the flesh running away with some aspect of God's truth, resulting in error...a wrong-headed conclusion. We need to grow to learn to receive understanding from the Lord, not from our natural mind of flesh. Understanding of scripture comes by revelation…the Holy Spirit revealing it to our hearts:

1Co 2:7-16

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture teaches that it is by faith. No one is counted as the seed of Abraham spiritually speaking until and unless they come to faith in Christ the Messiah. But God has already foreknown who will and who won't, and He is sometimes speaking from His vantage point, as it were.

Gal 3:5-7

He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


Rom 9:6-8

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Gal 3:28-29

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Scripture doesnt teach that error you propagating. A person is someone seed because they are in someone, the seed of Abraham was in the loins of Abraham. Isaac had no choice whether or not he was a seed of abraham, that choice was made for him. All believers are as Isaac was, the seed of abraham, by promise Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.


Now that being said, all the promised seed children will be given the gift of Faith to believe, identifying them that they were children of promise. Believing and Faith are identifying evidences of being of the seed.

 

[Runningman]

Salvation is given to and limited to a seed, some gentiles are included in that seed. Christ died specifically for a seed, seen vividly here Isa 53:10

The problem with your commentary is that it is only stated by you and the Calvinists and not stated in the Bible. Which means your gospel is false and cannot save anyone.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Amen!

 

[Runningman]

5 Christians Walk into a room and sit at a table.
One says, " I believe in Universalism", here are the scriptures.
One says, " I believe you can lose your salvation", here are the scriptures
One says, "I believe in OSAS", here are the scriptures.
One says, "I believe Calvinism is of the devil", here are the scriptures.
The Last one says, "I'm a Calvinist", here are the scriptures.

The bible actually has verses that support all these positions.

Sure. Any good lawyer can make the Bible appear to say something it really does not. This is where all of the heresies come from. The Bible can be represented in such a way so that the prosperity gospel seems valid when it actually is not. There is a way to use verses in such a way so as to suggest Paul was in the Garden of Eden, that the first sinner was the lying snake and not Adam, that Peter is the devil incarnate. The bread literally transforms into human flesh during communion and we become a religion of cannibals? I can do it, but it would be wrong.

My point is there is a right way to divide the Scripture and there is a wrong way. The 5 Christians in your story cannot all be correct.

 

[brightfame52]

The problem with your commentary is that it is only stated by you and the Calvinists and not stated in the Bible. Which means your gospel is false and cannot save anyone.

Amen!

Everyone isnt Christs seed He died died for Isa 53:10, its a special people chosen in Him b4 the foundation Eph 1:4

 

[Rockerduck]

Sure. Any good lawyer can make the Bible appear to say something it really does not. This is where all of the heresies come from. The Bible can be represented in such a way so that the prosperity gospel seems valid when it actually is not. There is a way to use verses in such a way so as to suggest Paul was in the Garden of Eden, that the first sinner was the lying snake and not Adam, that Peter is the devil incarnate. The bread literally transforms into human flesh during communion and we become a religion of cannibals? I can do it, but it would be wrong.

My point is there is a right way to divide the Scripture and there is a wrong way. The 5 Christians in your story cannot all be correct.

I have debated every position. I cannot change your mind; you are set the way you think. You cannot change my mind; Jesus has revealed the meaning of His Word to me. You claim to rightly divide the word, but all the 5 positions will tell you the same thing, that you are wrong and they are right. If you have been around as long as I have, you will learn this too.

 

[Runningman]

Everyone isnt Christs seed He died died for Isa 53:10, its a special people chosen in Him b4 the foundation Eph 1:4

And all you need to do to be of the seed of Abraham is have faith, according to the Bible. It's open to anyone to be born again spiritually.

 

[Runningman]

I have debated every position. I cannot change your mind; you are set the way you think. You cannot change my mind; Jesus has revealed the meaning of His Word to me. You claim to rightly divide the word, but all the 5 positions will tell you the same thing, that you are wrong and they are right. If you have been around as long as I have, you will learn this too.

Yes and I am sure all 5 of those Christians will all say that Jesus or God has revealed the meaning of the word to them too. It is possible to believe one is on the correct path when they are not. Do you admit it's possible you got it all wrong?

Here's a better question... which one of those positions espoused by the 5 Christians cannot be contradicted by the Bible?

 

[Behold]

When you Limit The Cross, you reject the One on it.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes and I am sure all 5 of those Christians will all say that Jesus or God has revealed the meaning of the word to them too. It is possible to believe one is on the correct path when they are not. Do you admit it's possible you got it all wrong?

Here's a better question... which one of those positions espoused by the 5 Christians cannot be contradicted by the Bible?

They will all debate you and say you are wrong.

 

[Runningman]

They will all debate you and say you are wrong.

Yes Christianity is extremely divided on basic concepts such as salvation because some are mislead and deceived by people like John Calvin.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes Christianity is extremely divided on basic concepts such as salvation because some are mislead and deceived by people like John Calvin.

Everyone's salvation is different, like fingerprints. God expects us to come together as one, even though He created the differences. Jesus told me it had to be this way. That's the narrow road Jesus said to follow, love each other despite the differences we have come to believe.
1 John 4:20 - If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother (in Christ), he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes Christianity is extremely divided on basic concepts such as salvation because some are mislead and deceived by people like John Calvin.

It's the bible, not dropping names. Use the bible to disagree, not name dropping. Paul speaks against that, saying its vain philosophies to drop names.

 

[brightfame52]

And all you need to do to be of the seed of Abraham is have faith, according to the Bible. It's open to anyone to be born again spiritually.

False, in order to be given faith you have to be of the chosen seed