The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Is a God that would do that trustworthy?
Are you saying that because you were predestined to life?
(I got mine, to hell with everyone else)

What if things went the other way?
What if you had been predestined to destruction?
That God decided NOT to woo you by His Spirit to be one of the chosen Elect.
How would you feel about it then? Trustworthy?
 

brightfame52

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St. SteVen said:
Is a God that would do that trustworthy?

Are you saying that because you were predestined to life?
(I got mine, to hell with everyone else)

What if things went the other way?
What if you had been predestined to destruction?
That God decided NOT to woo you by His Spirit to be one of the chosen Elect.
How would you feel about it then? Trustworthy?
Do you understand the OP ? Lets discuss that please
 
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St. SteVen

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Do you understand the OP ? Lets discuss that please
I thought we were.
What does the Atonement accomplish if it is limited to the Elect? (incomplete)

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
 

brightfame52

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I thought we were.
What does the Atonement accomplish if it is limited to the Elect? (incomplete)

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Read my posts throughout the thread, I have explained what the atonement has accomplished and for whom.
 

St. SteVen

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Read my posts throughout the thread, I have explained what the atonement has accomplished and for whom.
I only needed to read the OP to see that you have limited the Atonement to the Elect.
By extension you are claiming that God predestined the majority of humankind to destruction.
Inferring that with malice and forethought such a plan was conceived with full knowledge of the outcome.

That seems to be a very low view of my loving and merciful heavenly Father.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
 

brightfame52

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I only needed to read the OP to see that you have limited the Atonement to the Elect.
By extension you are claiming that God predestined the majority of humankind to destruction.
Inferring that with malice and forethought such a plan was conceived with full knowledge of the outcome.

That seems to be a very low view of my loving and merciful heavenly Father.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
I have built my argument from the OP in subsequent posts.
 

St. SteVen

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Deliverance from unbelief !

Unbelief is one of the sins that the elect world is saved from, that's the significance of this portion Jn 16:8-9.

The Holy Spirit convicts the elect unbeliever of sin and gives them faith.
What is the point, if they are the Elect, why do they even need to be saved?
You claim that they ALONE were chosen and predestined.
Which basically makes the Atonement meaningless.
 

St. SteVen

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Being saved experimentally is being delivered from unbelief .

... The Fact is, no one Jesus Christ died to save, can ever die in unbelief, that would defeat one of the main purposes of His death accomplishments.
Once again. A pointless Atonement.
As you wrote: "... no one Jesus Christ died to save, can ever die in unbelief..."
 

St. SteVen

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What are the objectives and effects of the death of Christ ?

Why was it important for those He shed His blood for ? It provided unto them redemption
Provided redemption? From what? The were ALREADY predestined as the Elect according to you.
And again, as you wrote: "... no one Jesus Christ died to save, can ever die in unbelief..." (pointless)
 

St. SteVen

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So, one of the objectives and effects of the death of Christ for His People is their redemption which secure unto them their regeneration, or birth by the Spirit, which gives them Spiritual liberty !
What's to secure? You already told us that ONLY the Elect were atoned for. Pointless!
 
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St. SteVen

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What are the objectives and effects of the death of Christ ?

Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ, it ensured the Spiritual cleansing and sanctification of all those He died for. The church.
Again, what is the point if they are the predestined Elect? Didn't that ALREADY set them apart? (sanctification)
 

brightfame52

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Provided redemption? From what? The were ALREADY predestined as the Elect according to you.
And again, as you wrote: "... no one Jesus Christ died to save, can ever die in unbelief..." (pointless)
Redemption from what ? Sin Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
 

Enoch111

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The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God.
That is not what Scripture says, so you are trying to bamboozle everyone. The Bible says that God was in Christ RECONCILING THE WORLD unto Himself (2 Cor 5:19). That means all of humanity. The word "elect" was inserted by you, since you preach a warped Gospel. So when are you going to wake up and repent of your folly?
 

brightfame52

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That is not what Scripture says, so you are trying to bamboozle everyone. The Bible says that God was in Christ RECONCILING THE WORLD unto Himself (2 Cor 5:19). That means all of humanity. The word "elect" was inserted by you, since you preach a warped Gospel. So when are you going to wake up and repent of your folly?
Thats what scripture means, Christ only died for the elect/sheep, so they alone are reconciled to God.
 

brightfame52

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It makes them alive ! 2

2 Cor 5:14-15

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Since by the Death of Christ, all for whom He did die, they are delivered from the legal and judicial guilt of all their sins, as well as from the penalty of sin, Death. In light of this, His Death secured for them the effectual workings of the Spirit in them, as well as the giving of them spiritual life from spiritual death, for this is the Blessed effects of what Christ accomplished for them.

All for whom He died have no sins charged against them because of Christ's Work, and also by it [His Work] they have been declared Just, so to them, for Christ's Work sake in their behalf, must be given Life by the Spirit, hence we have Justification to Life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Spiritual life flows[By the Spirit] to all whom Christ's Death Justified or made Just.

This verse Rom 5:18 presents to view the Two main accomplishments and effects by the One Act of Righteousness by Jesus Christ, which denotes His Death, and these are : #1 Justification and #2 Life, which is spiritual life from the dead by the Spirit [Eph 2:5]

If Spiritual Life or quickening from the Spirit is never in this life communicated to an individual, then rest assured that Christ did not do away by His Death of their sins before God's Law and Justice, and they still have an penalty of sin to answer for !
 

brightfame52

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His Death actually saves them He died for !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

And believers may testify to this because believing is but an evidence of healing or of being saved.

Scripture is plain here that Salvation comes through Christ's death, or stripes or wounds.

The word heal here in 1 Peter 2:24 is the greek word iaomai and means to:

to cure, heal

2) to make whole

a) to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

The healing here is not physical but of spiritual disease and because its the Lord, its a supernatural healing.

In Isa 53:5 the word literally means that healing has come to us, its like what Paul says Rom 5:18, so spiritual healing is the free gift that comes to all whom Christ died !

That healing means Salvation is implied here Jer 17:14

14 Heal me, O Lord, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.

Also Christ's Death, Stripes or Wounds, for all those whose sins He bare 1 Pet 2:24

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree"

His stripes shall heal their deadly wound of spiritual death brought upon them by sin Rev 13:3

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The principle being here that something that was considered dead, as all for whom Christ died are by nature Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ[Healed], (by grace ye are saved or healed)

Yes, Healing experimentally comes by quickening.

Ecclesiastes 3:3

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

Here healing appears to be the reversal of killing or putting to death !

But by Christ's Death / Stripes those He died for are healed by sins death wound, for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is healing from death !

Notice 1 Peter 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The healing causes us to be able to Live unto Righteousness, for that was the end and purpose of the stripes, to produce fruit that would live unto God or unto Righteousness , which is to live by Faith, for it is written, the Just [or Righteous] shall live by Faith; So if any of us truly live by Faith, we have Christ's Stripes or Death to Thank for that, for a Life of Faith is by Him as that Gift of God Eph 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: His Death or Stripes is the Gift of God !

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Also this is a serious indictment against all who deny that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself, is what saved those He died for !
 
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