Another Premillennial absurdity

[WPM]

The word "overrun" is for dramatic effects. Still not using Scripture. You are digging deep in the barrel trying to find excuses why there is not a Millennium after the Second Coming.

You have no answer to these myriads of wicked rebels overtaking your millennium. You invent billions of imaginary sinless sinners who march to Satan's every command.

 

[Timtofly]

5 mins before the end of your imaginary future millennium of bliss these billions of wicked were waiting (as the sand of the sea) for their master Satan. The moment he appeared these millennial masses forsook Christ en-masse and overrun the age to come from one corner of the earth to the other.

Now you are just making stuff up. You do that a lot, even when presented with Scripture. All of Adam's flesh is destroyed at Armageddon. No one is left. Certainly not 1,000 years later. You are refuting your own teachings, that all sin is over at the Second Coming.

 

[WPM]

Where do people come from? Normally two humans get together. One male, and one female. I am pretty sure you can twist that fact some how.

So is your eternal anti sin, anti sinner doctrine after the Second Coming as well then. If it does not work for me, then it cannot work for you, either.

What are you talking about? Those born in your imaginary millennium are mortals who sin and die. Hello! The Bible says that we are all “by nature the children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3). The Psalmist outlines this dire reality, saying, “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me” (Psalm 51:5). Man is spiritually dead prior to salvation and cannot exercise any holy thought, work or activity outside of God. How can a totally depraved mind think holy thoughts?

 

[Timtofly]

It is easily refuted Tim.
If there was no sin nature after Jesus second coming, then all would be a part of the camp of the saints and all would therefore be Glorified as Jesus has atoned for their sin and honored their repentance with the promise of having a body like Jesus Glorified body at his appearing.
According to Apostle Paul such people would remain with him forevermore.

1Thess 4
7 Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord! 18 Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words [concerning our reunion with believers who have died].

So the sin nature clearly remains throughout your proposed millennium as that is the reason they were not Glorified with those who were ready at his appearing.

The future millennium is therefore a complete joke and a complete waste of time and would bring nothing but disappointment to the Glorified elect who were meant to reigning over them.
Not the spingboard into eternity we are promised coming off the back of such a failure.

Nope. There are no souls stuck in Adam's dead corruptible flesh after Armageddon. You cannot foist that fact onto Revelation 20 no matter how much you twist Scripture.

 

[WPM]

Now you are just making stuff up. You do that a lot, even when presented with Scripture. All of Adam's flesh is destroyed at Armageddon. No one is left. Certainly not 1,000 years later. You are refuting your own teachings, that all sin is over at the Second Coming.

LOL. Who then are these billions of wicked of wicked as the sand of the sea who overrun your future millennium? You have no answer for that. It is so easy to refute your beliefs. Just open Rev 20. Hello!

 

[Timtofly]

You have no answer to these myriads of billions of wicked rebels overtaking your millennium. You invent billions of imaginary sinless sinners who march to Satan's every command.

Revelation 20 does not say nor imply your argument. Being a sinner is one thing. Being deceived by Satan is another.

What commandment states: thou shalt not be deceived by Satan? If you are deceived you have broken the law.

So Adam and Eve were sinners because Satan deceived them? It had nothing to do with Adam disobeying God? How can you prove that from Scripture?

 

[Timtofly]

What are you talking about? Those born in your imaginary millennium are mortals who sin and die. Hello! The Bible says that we are all “by nature the children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3). The Psalmist outlines this dire reality, saying, “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me” (Psalm 51:5). Man is spiritually dead prior to salvation and cannot exercise any holy thought, work or activity outside of God. How can a totally depraved mind think holy thoughts?

Impossible after the Second Coming to keep living in sin. You know that. Why are you refuting your own teachings?

You think there are sinners in the eternal new heavens and earth?

We are not talking about the here and now. We are talking about after the Second Coming.

 

[jeffweeder]

Nope. There are no souls stuck in Adam's dead corruptible flesh after Armageddon.

Why?
The only way to remain like Adam fallen flesh is to reject the Gospel of repentance and forgiveness.
Not all have received the Gospel at the Lords coming Tim and they remain unglorified and still in their sin nature.
and forbidden from the tree of life.

 

[WPM]

Revelation 20 does not say nor imply your argument. Being a sinner is one thing. Being deceived by Satan is another.

What commandment states: thou shalt not be deceived by Satan? If you are deceived you have broken the law.

So Adam and Eve were sinners because Satan deceived them? It had nothing to do with Adam disobeying God? How can you prove that from Scripture?

Hello! Who writes your script for you? Open your Bible and read it. Deception is sin. Being deceived by the devil is sin. The Word of God and the Holy Spirt show us that being deceived by Satan, rejecting Christ and following the devil is sin and leads to one being damned for all eternity. To think otherwise is gross deception! It is delusional! Those who have eyes to see will grasp this truth.

Jeremiah 17:9 states: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Deceitfulness is sin. It is wicked.

C H Spurgeon: “if you had no devil to tempt you, no enemies to fight you, and no world to ensnare you, you would still find in yourself evil enough to be a sore trouble to you, for ‘the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked’.”

Oba 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee,

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Revelation 20:3, 7-10: "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season ... And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

[WPM]

Impossible after the Second Coming to keep living in sin. You know that. Why are you refuting your own teachings?

You think there are sinners in the eternal new heavens and earth?

We are not talking about the here and now. We are talking about after the Second Coming.

I am refuting your imaginary future millennium full of sinless sinners.

 

[Timtofly]

Why?
The only way to remain like Adam fallen flesh is to reject the Gospel of repentance and forgiveness.
Not all have received the Gospel at the Lords coming Tim and they remain unglorified and still in their sin nature.
and forbidden from the tree of life.

No they are dead in the LOF. The goats don't remain on earth after being judged as goats. They are cast into the LOF, after the Second Coming. But Jesus and the sheep, the 144k, and angels are on earth. But the sheep are now in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. That means they are no longer in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. No sheep can remain in Adam's flesh and live. They would be dead and in heaven. But none of the saints hang out on earth during Satan's 42 months declared in Revelation 13. That time is for those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The sheep and goats are removed from Adam's flesh prior to these last 42 months of AoD, where people are beheaded or receive the mark.

 

[WPM]

No they are dead in the LOF. The goats don't remain on earth after being judged as goats. They are cast into the LOF, after the Second Coming. But Jesus and the sheep, the 144k, and angels are on earth. But the sheep are now in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. That means they are no longer in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. No sheep can remain in Adam's flesh and live. They would be dead and in heaven. But none of the saints hang out on earth during Satan's 42 months declared in Revelation 13. That time is for those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The sheep and goats are removed from Adam's flesh prior to these last 42 months of AoD, where people are beheaded or receive the mark.

Who then are these wicked Christ-rejectors who follow Satan in their billions after your supposed earthly millennium? Are they sinless or sinners in your mind?

 

[rwb]

Who then are these wicked Christ-rejectors who follow Satan in their billions after your supposed earthly millennium? Are they sinless or sinners in your mind?

Do you ever feel like your speaking to a brick wall, or perhaps crying in the wind?

 

[David in NJ]

One of the main problems Premillennialism has is that it has a glorified Jesus bringing back all the redeemed of all the ages that have enjoyed perfect communion with Christ in His majestic heavenly presence since the time He defeated sin and death 2000 years ago, giving them new eternal incorruptible bodies at His second coming, along with the living in Christ, rewarding them with eternal bliss, and then bringing them back to a corruptible millennial earth filled with degenerates, death, decay and depravity, just like our present day. It is just another re-run of our current evil age.

Premillennialism has saints that have been delivered from a sinful world thousands of years ago being forced to come back to watch the folly of the rebuilding of a new temple, the debacle of futile animal sacrifices, the restoration of the old covenant priesthood, continued sin, death and decay. Finally, the saints will have to engage in literal physical spiritual warfare in their glorified bodies with Satan and his global mortal army – Gog and Magog. They will be confronted with the awful sight of Satan being released from his prison to mobilize a global assault upon Jesus and the glorified saints in earthly Jerusalem. This army will consist of all the millennial mortals that have feigned worship to the Lord Jesus Christ for a thousand years turning in their billions at the drop of a hat from following Jesus to following Satan as the sand of the sea.

This whole portrayal is ridiculous and nonsensical, and will never happen.

Read this:

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Key points:
a.) Hope even in physical death
b.) those who died are with Jesus now
c.) the Lord is Coming
d.) Resurrection into Glorified Bodies
e.) Forever to be Glorified with Christ

Call me crazy but i believe exactly = "it is written"

 

[WPM]

We all agree with that.

 

[WPM]

Do you ever feel like your speaking to a brick wall, or perhaps crying in the wind?

Quite often. Sadly.

 

[WPM]

No they are dead in the LOF. The goats don't remain on earth after being judged as goats. They are cast into the LOF, after the Second Coming. But Jesus and the sheep, the 144k, and angels are on earth. But the sheep are now in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. That means they are no longer in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. No sheep can remain in Adam's flesh and live. They would be dead and in heaven. But none of the saints hang out on earth during Satan's 42 months declared in Revelation 13. That time is for those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The sheep and goats are removed from Adam's flesh prior to these last 42 months of AoD, where people are beheaded or receive the mark.

Deception is sin. Being deceived by the devil is sin. The Word of God and the Holy Spirt show us that being deceived by Satan, rejecting Christ and following the devil is sin and leads to one being damned for all eternity. To think otherwise is gross deception! It is delusional! Those who have eyes to see will grasp this truth.

Jeremiah 17:9 states: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Deceitfulness is sin. It is wicked.

C H Spurgeon: “if you had no devil to tempt you, no enemies to fight you, and no world to ensnare you, you would still find in yourself evil enough to be a sore trouble to you, for ‘the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked’.”

Oba 1:3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee,

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Revelation 20:3, 7-10: "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season ... And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

[WPM]

Read this:

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Key points:
a.) Hope even in physical death
b.) those who died are with Jesus now
c.) the Lord is Coming
d.) Resurrection into Glorified Bodies
e.) Forever to be Glorified with Christ

Call me crazy but i believe exactly = "it is written"

We all agree with that.

 

[David in NJ]

We all agree with that.

There is a great disparity of what people 'believe' from 1 Thess 4:13-18

Examples:
a.) Some have claimed, in direct conflict with the order given here, that the rapture occurs before the resurrection.
b.) Others say 1 Thess 4:13-18 is not the same event as 1 Cor ch15 even though it is the same Apostle speaking on the very same subject
c.) Others have suggested this has no relation to Matt ch24 or Revelation

 

[David in NJ]

No they are dead in the LOF. The goats don't remain on earth after being judged as goats. They are cast into the LOF, after the Second Coming. But Jesus and the sheep, the 144k, and angels are on earth. But the sheep are now in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. That means they are no longer in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. No sheep can remain in Adam's flesh and live. They would be dead and in heaven. But none of the saints hang out on earth during Satan's 42 months declared in Revelation 13. That time is for those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The sheep and goats are removed from Adam's flesh prior to these last 42 months of AoD, where people are beheaded or receive the mark.

At least Five Witnesses testify:

1.)The Lord Jesus Christ, in the Gospels, said His Sheep/Saints will be on earth during the time of the Mark of the Beast/AOD.
2.)The Prophet Daniel said the Saints will be on earth during the MoB.
3.)The Apostle Paul said the Saints will be on earth during the MoB.
4.)The Apostle John said the Saints would be on earth during the MoB.
and
5.)The LORD in His Revelation said the Saints are on earth during the MoB.

And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
Revelation ch14