Another Premillennial absurdity
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i do not have one,
but i do believe this = “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”
therefore,
Revelation ch20 clearly speaks for itself and is in PERFECT AGREEMENT with the Gospels, 1&2 Thess, 1 Cor ch15, 1 John and more
so my position is His Position = i stand with the Truth
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
LOL with ya Brother - ty for the humor
Well, many claim to stand with the Truth but when they add to God's words and deny Gods words = "it is written",
then they are not standing in the position Christ would have them.
Make this TOP PRIORITY in your heart & mind when studying Scripture = Proverbs 30:5-6 and Revelation 22:18
If you do, it will greatly help to keep you from doctrinal error.
Peace
I think everyone would claim that. LOL.
What rules of biblical interpretation do you employ to ensure what you hold is true?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The very Rules our LORD commanded us:
Now, O Israel, listen to the statutes and the judgments which I teach you to observe, that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers is giving you.
2You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
"no lie is of the truth" - 1 John
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i am a "son of God" born again by the Spirit of God
The Father called me to Christ whereby my sins were taken away and His Holy Spirit was bestowed upon me - the Spirit of Truth.
As it is written: "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth."
Me too. Do you believe the second coming is the end of the world like the Bible says?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jesus Prophesied = "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." Matt ch24
This is not the end of the earth but the end of the age = the end of satans deception over man
But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth
and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Ok. So, the coming of the Lord (the end of the age) is the end of deception, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil and the end of time? It is the beginning of eternity? It is the beginning of perfection?
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
It is not the end of satan since we know he will be locked up and then released.
Satan is not locked up now and never has been to this point in world history.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
1 Peter 5:8
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
What does the Holy Scripture of Truth say here?
"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." - Rev 12:9
and here
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan," - Rev 20:1
and here
How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
You did not answer my question. You avoided it! Why?
You are adding 2+2 and getting 22.
A lot of people forget, Christ did not only defeat sin through His sinless life, atoning death, and glorious resurrection, He also defeated death, Hades, the devil and eternal punishment. None of these therefore will hold dominion over the believer ever again.
Before the resurrection the redeemed dead were forced to stay in Hades awaiting the defeat of sin, death, Hades and Satan. The limitations that once held God’s people from the presence of God now restrain Satan so that he cannot access heaven any more to accuse the elect. Jesus opened heaven up to the redeemed (both living and dead) when he defeated all our great enemies. He consequently emptied Abraham's bosom and took the dead in Christ in heaven.
So, I would say the reigning with Christ in heaven could only happen after He had conquered every enemy of righteousness. Jesus taught in John 11:25, saying, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."
This is speaking of the resurrection life that can be enjoyed in this life through faith.
- Jesus Christ perfectly fulfilled every lofty demand that the law required Him to achieve.
- He achieved every demand that His Father demanded off Him.
- He satisfied every demand justice required of Him.
Jesus testified in John 16:11: “the prince of this world is judged.”
The devil is already judged. He is not waiting to be judged. He is already been condemned to his eternal doom.
In John 12:31-33 Christ predicted, shortly before He defeated the power of Satan at the cross, “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die” (John 12:31-33).
Satan being cast out of heaven means his seat of accusation against believers before God is gone forever. He cannot accuse you before the throne of heaven anymore, because your penalty is fully paid. The only thing he can do is point the finger to you directly and hope that you are stupid enough to listen to him.
Here was the time of his casting down - after the cross. Here was the time of the unblinding of the nations (the Gentiles). Here Christ gloriously dethroned Satan from his previous, largely unchallenged, global earthly rule and his place of accusation in heaven. Satan’s movement, liberties and sway on earth and in heaven received a severe blow.
Revelation 20:1-5 parallels Revelation 12: "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
This is the authority Jesus secured through His resurrection. He cast Satan out of heaven and then restrained him with spiritual chains so that the Gospel could enlighten the nations. Satan's defeat came after the resurrection.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Your question was perfectly answered and now you went on a completely different course.
i absolutely agree with every scripture you just now posted.
Common mistake:
You have stated some excellent and glorious truth BUT you then placed them all in a religion blender.
The end result is they do not agree with you entire assessment.
Only by aligning your heart and mind with ALL Scripture and submit to what Scripture declares (not vice versa) can we correctly ascertain the Word of Truth.
P.S. - satan has not been locked up = YET = Read Matthew, 1&2 Thess, 1 John and Revelation again.
It would be a big help if you addressed the counter-arguments to your position instead of avoiding them. No, you do not agree that Satan was cast down 2000 years ago as Scripture teaches. You disagree with what the texts above say.
The big mistake (I believe) Premillennialists make is that they abandon corroboration when it comes to Revelation 20. They impose a meaning upon this apocalyptic passage that enjoys no other Old Testament or New Testament support. This (to me) is a grave error. If we let Scripture interprets Scripture it is easy to understand this much-debated passage.
When you follow the New Testament narrative through, and let it speak for itself, you see that Revelation 20 neatly fits into the intra-Advent period. It is a record of Christ's great victory over every enemy of righteousness. It shows our conquering king Christ returning after defeating sin, death, Satan, Hades and eternal punishment (the lake of fire). That is why Jesus come. In His mission He accomplished every demand asked of Him. I believe Revelation 20 is also a record of the great commission.
Premils avoid the most important resurrection to let their opinion fit. There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).
Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.
Since this, Revelation 20 describes the defeat and binding (or curtailment) of Satan for the expressed purpose of the Gospel invading the nations and removing the deception that blinded the Gentiles before Christ's first resurrection. When Satan was bound through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then the kingdom of darkness was bound (including the beast and every demon). 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm is currently restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i appreciate your love in Christ and our dialogue together in Him who has called us out of darkness.
Let us therefore fulfill His desire that we love one another fervently.
i have never found it to be fruitful when we overload with too many scriptures at once = too easy to get sidetracked
There are separate principles and parameters about Christ's victory(Amen) and satan's defeat that you have bundled together into one understanding.
a.) Did the scriptures in Post 1,814 confirm to you that satan is a spirit?
b.) Do you understand that satan is not yet locked up? = Post 1,810 and 1 Peter 5:8, Ephesians 6:10-13, 1 Cor 5:1-5 , Matt 6:8-14
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I agree.
• So, the binding of Satan is spiritual. Satan is not human and physical. He is a spirit. A spirit cannot be held by physical restraints. What is more, he is not in a physical prison or is he restrained by metal chains.
• Also, the binding does not suggest our enemy must be motionless or does it describe inactivity. Prisoners have movement in a prison albeit in a limited capacity, under strict rules and within controlled confines.
• Additionally, Revelation 20 does not suggest that the devil is unable to inflict harm on anyone while bound. Everyone knows that a prisoner can perpetrate all types of crimes within the prison precincts.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Thank You Brother,
i am currently sanctioned to deliver my son to self-defense class now, so will be out for a couple hours
Interest Points - i am in full agreement with you on scripture in that satan was defeated by Christ and that he does not have the same access to the Throne as he did with Job.
If satan is currently locked up now, how is he currently(now/today) able to decieve the nations?
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit,
and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more
till the thousand years were finished.
But after these things he must be released for a little while.
Peace
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