What prophecies regarding Israel’s regathering have already been or are being fulfilled?

[Berean]

God changed what it meant to be a “Jew”…..this is spiritual “Israel”…..national “Israel” lost its place through disobedience and was given back to the nations to spill blood just like all the rest. (Isa 1:15)

Your problem is ... you're not "rightly dividing the word of truth aright" - 2 Timothy 2:15.

You also keep repeating your "sticking points," but haven't responded to my scriptural comments.

You are so left behind….but it’s not me who will tell you….you don’t want to know, and you are free to believe whatever you wish. We will all know soon enough who is “doing the will of the Father”. (Matt 7:21-23)

"Left behind"? Yes. It was the Truth then, and it continues to be the Truth today, unlike your "progressive errors". Because unlike your governing body, we remember where we learned the Truth from (2 Timothy 3:14, 15) and remember what the apostle informed us of "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8)

So I'll take you up on that bet.

 

[ewq1938]

Does the divided church system of Christendom fit this description…..? And do the individuals out on their own personal limb, fit it either?

My advice to all and any reading. LEAVE YOUR DENOMINATION! None of them are fully correct and ALL of them have false doctrines that can lead you to Apostasy should the Tribulation take place during your lifetime! Learn to reject false doctrines from all the denominations while identifying the true and useful teachings that all also possess. Do this with denominations, various teachers, bible type videos and even individual posters in forums. There is truth everywhere but there is always lies mixed in and that's where discernment is the most important tool you will ever have.


It's more important how you as a member of the body of Christ follow the bible the closest than how others do. Then you will be able to spot who is following the bible the closest because you will see when they go away from it into their own private beliefs and interpretations. So, attend church in any or all of the various denominations...take what good you can from them and leave that which is not. If you find one that seems better and more biblical than the others maybe visit that one the most or exclusively but don't "sell your soul" to any particular one because they all will have flaws. They are all somewhat at war with each other, fighting for new members and declaring themselves as the only one Christ would approve of or started or spiritually dwells within.

In the earliest days of the "church" there was no name or anything, it was people who knew Christ's teachings, followed them best they could and shared what they knew with others and lived as best and as morally as they could.

 

[Aunty Jane]

If the Holy Spirit is trying to bring unity among believers, he has done a very poor job.

He gave up trying when the Reformation took place…..the Roman Catholic church had held its members in spiritual captivity and bondage for centuries, teaching all manner of false doctrines and pretending that they were Scriptural….but no one was allowed to read the Bible to find out if what they taught was even true.

With the brave act of one man, the shackles were released and mankind were given back the Scriptures in their own language. The power of the Roman church was broken! Now they had an opportunity to see for themselves what the Bible teaches……but what happened? Egos got in the way, and men drew off disciples after themselves (as it was prophesied) and they began to interpret God’s word in ways that the original Jews would never have understood. Even the very nature of God was changed into something only found in paganism. …..polytheism in disguise. But the church found a way to deny that charge by saying that there are three presentations or personalities of one God……I cannot find such a notion in any of Christ’s teachings.

When Christ arrives as judge, he will know his “sheep” because these have been “doing the will of his Father”, which is following through on all the teachings of his son, and he will reject the goats as those he “never knew”. (Matt 7:21-23) …those who wore a label but never put much effort into doing anything much except showing up at church on Sunday, and forgetting about showing or displaying Christian qualities for the rest of the week.

We cannot be Christians in isolation….we have to be part of a brotherhood who meet regularly for worship, (Heb 10:24-25) and who share the same beliefs in all nations….with no divisions. We also have to be actively engaged in what Jesus was for most of his ministry….he was a preacher and teacher of Gods word and an advocate for Gods Kingdom. Most in Christendom have no idea what Gods Kingdom is, yet Jesus taught us to pray for it to “come”……can you tell me what God’s Kingdom is and how it “comes”? This is not praying to go to the kingdom but asking for the Kingdom to come to us….with the coming of that Kingdom, God’s will can be “done, on earth as it is in heaven.”
What does that mean?

 

[Aunty Jane]

In the earliest days of the "church" there was no name or anything, it was people who knew Christ's teachings, followed them best they could and shared what they knew with others and lived as best and as morally as they could.

All true religion begins with the truth, but man made denominations fracture the truth and lead people away from it.
If one has a good grasp of the big picture, then everything will fit into it without a lot of tap dancing.

Its not that complicated…..broken down to its simplest components….Adam made a big mistake by listening to his wife instead of his God and we are all paying for it…..we lost our home because of him, and God paid to fix his mistake….giving us the means to be forgiven for the results of our awful inheritance. This ends happily in God taking us back home. Happily ever after….

 

[Douggg]

I have no idea why the consensus is that natural Israel has any further future use in God’s purpose. He needed them to fulfill prophesy about the identity of the coming Messiah…..they chose to reject him and have him put to the most painful death imaginable…..why would God want to reward them for that?

No one is saying that Israel, the Jews, were rewarded or will be rewarded for crucifying the messiah.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If the Holy Spirit is trying to bring unity among believers, he has done a very poor job.

Of course He is trying to do that. Why would you think otherwise? So, this comment is unbelievable and is a tremendous insult to the Holy Spirit. How can you blame the Holy Spirit for choices that people make? You expect Him to force people to do what He wants? That's like blaming the Holy Spirit for unbelieving Jews resisting Him.

Acts 7:51 You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No one is saying that Israel, the Jews, were rewarded or will be rewarded for crucifying the messiah.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Jesus related that prophecy to His time long ago, so it's wrong to apply it to the future.

John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

 

[covenantee]

No one is saying that Israel, the Jews, were rewarded or will be rewarded for crucifying the messiah.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

What happens to them after their mourning and bitterness?

 

[Berean]

He gave up trying when the Reformation took place…..

But don't you think that your organization is guided by holy spirit? If so, then He didn't give up trying.

the Roman Catholic church had held its members in spiritual captivity and bondage for centuries, teaching all manner of false doctrines and pretending that they were Scriptural….but no one was allowed to read the Bible to find out if what they taught was even true.

The same can be said of the Watchtower leadership, sure they print Bibles and quote scriptures, but so does the Catholic church.

If you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses say you learn your theology by reading the Bible alone, then you contradict the Watchtower which says that is not possible:

• “Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19)
• “Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967, p. 587).

Additionally, the Watchtower says only its organization understands the Bible

• “Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book,” (Watchtower, July 1, 1973, p. 402).
• “All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the “greatly diversified wisdom of God” can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave,” (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8).

Therefore, whatever argument the JW offers is not from their understanding of the Bible but from the Watchtower’s interpretation of it.

The best quote I found is from the Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981, where it says if you read the Bible alone, you’ll become a Trinitarian.

1. “From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah’s people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude . . . They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ’Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago . . . ” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981).

Obviously, the Watchtower organization tells its members what to believe and to "avoid independent thinking."

We cannot be Christians in isolation….we have to be part of a brotherhood who meet regularly for worship, (Heb 10:24-25) and who share the same beliefs in all nations….with no divisions.

Because to disagree is expulsion.

Most in Christendom have no idea what Gods Kingdom is,

You say "most", what about those who do?"

 

[ScottA]

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matthew 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Why were the lost sheep….”lost”? Were they lost to God, or only to Judaism? Their negligent shepherds did not care about them.
Jesus was not sent to the incorrigible leadership, but to the lost members of the flock whom Jesus likened to lost lambs, precious enough to leave the 99 and to search for the lost one. The Pharisees would not lower themselves to preach to sinners. There was no rescue mission until Jesus came and offered them hope.

Jesus taught God’s truth, not the traditions of the Pharisees who are emulated today by the leaders of Christendom, in that they too promote man made traditions and false doctrines, rather than the plain truth of the Scriptures. (Matt 15:7-9) How many ways can you carve up Christianity without losing it? The truth is you cannot. You have to completely separate from it, as the Christians did from Judaism.
Both claimed to worship the same God…..as we see today…..the arguments never cease. So where is Christ to be found in all that religious confusion? He is not in any of it. (Matt 7:21-23)

All who teach the doctrines that originated in ancient Babylon, disqualify themselves….they are part of “Babylon the great”.
A brief investigation as to the origins of what is accepted as “Christian” teachings, will reveal their true base.
Worshipping multiple gods (or trying to make God appear to be more than one. Duet 6:4)…belief in an immortal soul, which is just a continuation of the devil’s first lie….and a fiery hell of eternal torment, which is an insult to the God of love and true justice.

John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

What was “finished”?
His mission to offer his life for the salvation of the human race, condemned to death through Adam’s sin. But rather than to apply that privilege indiscriminately, one who wanted that salvation for themselves, brought their lives and beliefs fully into line with what Jesus taught. They then went out to their fellow Jews and preached Christ’s message (Matt 10:11-14) essentially separating the sheep from the goats in that nation, because salvation was to be offered to them first as Abraham’s descendants.

After Jesus had completed his mission and the ‘lost sheep’ of God’s nation were in the pen, the good news of salvation was then offered to gentiles, to whom the same conditions applied…..they had to leave behind all false religious ideas and any immoral practices, and conform to the teachings of the Christ.

Life from the very beginning, was conditional, otherwise God would not have required obedience in Eden, with a serious penalty for non-compliance.

The salvation in Christ’s death is open to all….but not all want to follow the clearly stated conditions, and alter their behavior or to adopt true worship…..many simply want God to conform to their ideas, or to believe that Jesus’ sacrifice allows them to keep sinning because they think that you cannot lose your salvation. If that was true then preaching was a waste of time. The preaching of “the good news of the kingdom” was good news for some, but bad news for others, as it carried a dire warning that judgment was coming when Jesus would return to “separate the sheep from the goats”.

The “goats” are those who follow the pattern set by the unbelieving Jews. They are confident that they are OK with God, even though they are not OK with each other. (1 Cor 1:10) Any attempt to alter their ideas is met with stiff resistance because they think that they cannot be wrong, yet they cannot agree with one another….there is the red flag. The Pharisees and Sadducees disagreed with each other, but were united in their opposition to Jesus.
God’s spirit unites his people…it does not divide them.

“Babylon the great” is a big “city”, which like original Babylon, forced compliance with their religion and practices, essentially making obedient slaves of all who were taken captive, who ended up adopting those religious practices. But there were faithful ones like Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who remained steadfast in refusing to comply with Babylonian practices, when taken into captivity.

False religion is the devil’s ‘city’ in which all his slaves are held captive. Every conceivable form of false religion serves his interests as it takes worship away from the true God, and gives it to satan by default.

 

[ScottA]

Why were the lost sheep….”lost”? Were they lost to God, or only to Judaism? Their negligent shepherds did not care about them.
Jesus was not sent to the incorrigible leadership, but to the lost members of the flock whom Jesus likened to lost lambs, precious enough to leave the 99 and to search for the lost one. The Pharisees would not lower themselves to preach to sinners. There was no rescue mission until Jesus came and offered them hope.

Jesus taught God’s truth, not the traditions of the Pharisees who are emulated today by the leaders of Christendom, in that they too promote man made traditions and false doctrines, rather than the plain truth of the Scriptures. (Matt 15:7-9) How many ways can you carve up Christianity without losing it? The truth is you cannot. You have to completely separate from it, as the Christians did from Judaism.
Both claimed to worship the same God…..as we see today…..the arguments never cease. So where is Christ to be found in all that religious confusion? He is not in any of it. (Matt 7:21-23)

All who teach the doctrines that originated in ancient Babylon, disqualify themselves….they are part of “Babylon the great”.
A brief investigation as to the origins of what is accepted as “Christian” teachings, will reveal their true base.
Worshipping multiple gods (or trying to make God appear to be more than one. Duet 6:4)…belief in an immortal soul, which is just a continuation of the devil’s first lie….and a fiery hell of eternal torment, which is an insult to the God of love and true justice.

What was “finished”?
His mission to offer his life for the salvation of the human race, condemned to death through Adam’s sin. But rather than to apply that privilege indiscriminately, one who wanted that salvation for themselves, brought their lives and beliefs fully into line with what Jesus taught. They then went out to their fellow Jews and preached Christ’s message (Matt 10:11-14) essentially separating the sheep from the goats in that nation, because salvation was to be offered to them first as Abraham’s descendants.

After Jesus had completed his mission and the ‘lost sheep’ of God’s nation were in the pen, the good news of salvation was then offered to gentiles, to whom the same conditions applied…..they had to leave behind all false religious ideas and any immoral practices, and conform to the teachings of the Christ.

Life from the very beginning, was conditional, otherwise God would not have required obedience in Eden, with a serious penalty for non-compliance.

The salvation in Christ’s death is open to all….but not all want to follow the clearly stated conditions, and alter their behavior or to adopt true worship…..many simply want God to conform to their ideas, or to believe that Jesus’ sacrifice allows them to keep sinning because they think that you cannot lose your salvation. If that was true then preaching was a waste of time. The preaching of “the good news of the kingdom” was good news for some, but bad news for others, as it carried a dire warning that judgment was coming when Jesus would return to “separate the sheep from the goats”.

The “goats” are those who follow the pattern set by the unbelieving Jews. They are confident that they are OK with God, even though they are not OK with each other. (1 Cor 1:10) Any attempt to alter their ideas is met with stiff resistance because they think that they cannot be wrong, yet they cannot agree with one another….there is the red flag. The Pharisees and Sadducees disagreed with each other, but were united in their opposition to Jesus.
God’s spirit unites his people…it does not divide them.

“Babylon the great” is a big “city”, which like original Babylon, forced compliance with their religion and practices, essentially making obedient slaves of all who were taken captive, who ended up adopting those religious practices. But there were faithful ones like Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who remained steadfast in refusing to comply with Babylonian practices, when taken into captivity.

False religion is the devil’s ‘city’ in which all his slaves are held captive. Every conceivable form of false religion serves his interests as it takes worship away from the true God, and gives it to satan by default.

Indeed, history is full of many details. But now is the time for summation, a time for the simple facts: Jesus "came for the house of Israel" as prophesied, and "finished."

 

[Aunty Jane]

Indeed, history is full of many details. But now is the time for summation, a time for the simple facts: Jesus "came for the house of Israel" as prophesied, and "finished."

The house of Israel is no longer the literal “house”…..Israel’s purpose in God’s arrangement was finished when they produced his Messiah. God chose a new “Israel”….one that has little to do with the original. The “New Jerusalem” was in heaven (Rev 21:1-2) as was Mt Zion, (Rev 14:1) the two places on earth associated exclusively with Jehovah’s worship. Both now shown to be figurative, not literal. (Types and shadows)

They had first option at becoming disciples of Christ, because of God’s promise to Abraham, but for the majority it was too much of a departure from the comfortable life they had under their religious leaders, guiding them in worship and telling them what to believe. (Matt 15:7-9)

Christendom is a mirror image of first century Judaism. God will have nothing to do with either….Christ will not recognize them as his own when sentence for the judgment is set. (Matt 7:21-23) They will be shocked at his rejection.

 

[ScottA]

The house of Israel is no longer the literal “house”…..Israel’s purpose in God’s arrangement was finished when they produced his Messiah. God chose a new “Israel”….one that has little to do with the original. The “New Jerusalem” was in heaven (Rev 21:1-2) as was Mt Zion, (Rev 14:1) the two places on earth associated exclusively with Jehovah’s worship. Both now shown to be figurative, not literal. (Types and shadows)

They had first option at becoming disciples of Christ, because of God’s promise to Abraham, but for the majority it was too much of a departure from the comfortable life they had under their religious leaders, guiding them in worship and telling them what to believe. (Matt 15:7-9)

Christendom is a mirror image of first century Judaism. God will have nothing to do with either….Christ will not recognize them as his own when sentence for the judgment is set. (Matt 7:21-23) They will be shocked at his rejection.

You seem to have your own strange doctrine.

Are you saying Jesus/Messiah did NOT come according to the promises of God as written, for the house of Israel, and did NOT finish with them by fulfilling those promises? Please be concise.

 

[quietthinker]

What prophecies regarding Israel’s regathering have already been or are being fulfilled?​

1. They are getting rid of the Palestinians.....true to their OT roots, no matter what the method
2. They are gathering for that purpose
3. They have forgotten what it feels like being oppressed.....or they don't want to remember.
4. Reliance on muscle is preferred to reliance on God.
5. Muscle and money are the default Gods.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You seem to have your own strange doctrine.

Are you saying Jesus/Messiah did NOT come according to the promises of God as written, for the house of Israel, and did NOT finish with them by fulfilling those promises? Please be concise.

When did I say that Messiah did not “come according to promises of God for the house of Israel?” He himself was from the house of Israel and preached exclusively to his own people.

He came in exactly the way God’s word said he would, born of a virgin, from the correct tribe, and he was born in the right town…even the right Bethlehem. But after being offered first places in the Kingdom, the majority of that nation cursed themselves when they demanded from Pilate that he should be put to death.

Matt 27:24-25….
”Seeing that it did no good but, rather, an uproar was arising, Pilate took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying: “I am innocent of the blood of this man. You yourselves must see to it.” 25 At that all the people said in answer: “Let his blood come upon us and upon our children.”

This is a case of “be careful what you wish for”….his blood did come upon them and their children.
Jesus said of his nation in lamentation….

”Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38  Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39  For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

It’s a sad and sorry history that Israel presents and it is told “warts and all” in the Hebrew Scriptures.
What does God owe them, when they never gave him back what he asked of them…..their obedience out of love and appreciation for all that he had done for them. He rescued them from slavery in Egypt, only to be slapped in the face by their complaints about leadership….and food of all things. They agreed to obey their God after seeing the 10 plagues and then the whole of proud Pharaoh’s army, drowned in the Red Sea….but then they fell to worshipping a golden calf…!

Even after they merited a 40 year sojourn in the wilderness, God took care of their needs, providing a perfect food to sustain them….providing water in a place that was arid….their clothing and footwear didn’t wear out and he moved them about to sustain them. He wanted to keep them in existence at least until his purpose in connection with their Messiah was fulfilled. 40 years would see the older complainers die out and hopefully their children would be more obedient than their parents…..were they?
Jesus’ words quoted above, show that the reputation they had with Jehovah was barely holding up as the time for his sacrifice drew near. When they opposed their Messiah and had him put to an agonizing death, they proved to be agents of the devil as Jesus said….
John 8:44…
”You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.”

The nation of Israel were only ever as good as the men who led them….and that was because they asked for a human king…..Jehovah wasn’t enough for them.
Jehovah had given the Israelites judges to lead them, but they wanted a king. They said to Samuel: ‘All the nations around us have kings. We want one too.’ Samuel felt that this was wrong, so he prayed to Jehovah about it. Jehovah said to him: ‘The people are not rejecting you. They are rejecting me. Tell them that they can have a king but that the king will demand many things from them.’ Even so, the people said: ‘We don’t care. We want a king!’ (1 Sam 8:4-9)

What does God owe Israel? Absolutely nothing.

 

[ScottA]

When did I say that Messiah did not “come according to promises of God for the house of Israel?”

You were not "concise", so this question above is enough for a reply.

To answer the above question: The first two paragraphs of your previous post seem to indicate that Israel was little more than a surrogate mother for Messiah. So now you have stated something more to correct what you did not communicate well, causing us to go back and forth as if in disagreement. Try saying more and writing less.

Should I go back and try to figure out what the two posts mean when combined, or would you like to rephrase?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You were not "concise", so this question above is enough for a reply.

To answer the above question: The first two paragraphs of your previous post seem to indicate that Israel was little more than a surrogate mother for Messiah. So now you have stated something more to correct what you did not communicate well, causing us to go back and forth as if in disagreement. Try saying more and writing less.

Should I go back and try to figure out what the two posts mean when combined, or would you like to rephrase?

If you cannot clearly discern the purpose of Israel’s choosing, then what is the point of discussing anything?

Israel only became a nation to produce the Messiah…as a promise made to Abraham and to his descendants. If they had obeyed their God in all his commands he would have blessed the socks off them! Their sad and sorry history was all their own doing and God at times wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth because they were “stiff ne led” and disobedient. (Ex 32:9-10)

He kept forgiving them only because he needed them to carry out his purpose to produce the Messiah but after his purpose was fulfilled he had no further use for such a wayward nation.

What makes anyone think that God wants to keep those who disobey him in existence, to mess up any more of his plans for the future? Obedience was the basis for their accepting his terms at Mt Sinai. They broke their agreement in 5 minutes by worshipping a golden calf! But the die was cast and Israel would go through many punishments before God’s purpose for them was complete. He is done with them.

The holy land is now saturated with innocent blood and is no longer a fit place on earth where the true God is worshipped. Three “Abrahamic” faiths fight over this desecrated piece of dirt that no longer means anything to Yahweh. How could it!? (Isa 1:15)

Jesus told the Samaritan woman a valuable truth about where God would be worshipped….John 4:19-24….

”The woman said to him: “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. 20 Our forefathers worshipped on this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where people must worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

The place where God is worshipped is no longer geographical…..as Christianity is now a global faith. (Acts 10:34-35) And truth is more important than sectarian religion.

 

[Berean]

What does God owe Israel? Absolutely nothing.

A covenant He made with them.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” - Jeremiah 31:31-34​

A promise He must keep.

"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." - Isaiah 55:11​

A covenant He cannot alter.

"My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips." - Psalm 89:34​

 

[quietthinker]

A covenant He made with them.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” - Jeremiah 31:31-34​

A promise He must keep.

"So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." - Isaiah 55:11​

A covenant He cannot alter.

"My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips." - Psalm 89:34​

The children of Israel were primarily rascals from the outset....and they maintained their lie of what happened to Joseph till circumstances forced their hand. Their progeny has primarily walked the same route as their forbears.

'Israel' for all intents and purposes means and is 'those who wrestle with God and prevail'. So when it comes to the literal children of Israel there is a limited application because the majority never 'wrestled with God and prevailed' even while God bent over backwards to lead them into the paths of life, they chose the opposite.

'Israel' is a primarily a metaphor for all 'who wrestle with God and prevail'.....irrespective of their ethnicity.
Interpreting 'Israel' as a small group of people who go by that name in Palestine today is missing the mark by a mile!