More on the Covenants to Israel

[marks]

how

How so?

What does "not all Israel is Isreal" mean?

Since Paul said, "not all Israel is Israel" then what did Paul mean when he said "in this way all Israel will be saved"?

Who exactly is "all Israel"?

Not all Israel is Israel. I believe Paul is speaking here of "the Israel of God", which refers to believing Israelites. Paul is making an argument to answer, why isn't all of Israel saved?

He shows first that not every son of Abraham qualifies, only the son of promise, Isaac. And not every son of Isaac, but the chosen son, Jacob. And not every son of Jacob, but those who believe. And throughout, he maintains the distinction between Jew and Gentile.

Much love!

 

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Which Biblical theology?

True Biblical theology.



Much love!

 

[covenantee]

True Biblical theology.



Much love!

Which True Biblical theology?

 

[marks]

Which True Biblical theology?

The ultimately true Biblical theology.



Much love!

 

[marks]

Why are you sorry?

Well, it's kind of an empty comment to make . . . But I'm enjoying your replies!

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

Not all Israel is Israel. I believe Paul is speaking here of "the Israel of God", which refers to believing Israelites. Paul is making an argument to answer, why isn't all of Israel saved?

He shows first that not every son of Abraham qualifies, only the son of promise, Isaac. And not every son of Isaac, but the chosen son, Jacob. And not every son of Jacob, but those who believe. And throughout, he maintains the distinction between Jew and Gentile.

Much love!

Thanks did you see post #15?

 

[marks]

Yes Romans 11:26 has two different descriptions "Zion" and "Jacob" for a reason

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion (National Israel) the Deliverer (Jesus), and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob (Spiritual Israel)

Usually I hear people saying that when God calls them Jacob, it's referring to fleshy Israel, and when He calls them Israel, that's the people of God.

That seems to fit here, in that He will turn away ungodliness from "Jacob". Do we really call the ungodly "spiritual Israel"?

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

Usually I hear people saying that when God calls them Jacob, it's referring to fleshy Israel, and when He calls them Israel, that's the people of God.

That seems to fit here, in that He will turn away ungodliness from "Jacob". Do we really call the ungodly "spiritual Israel"?

Much love!

Jesus turned ungodliness away from the church He made flesh spiritual

 

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Jesus turned ungodliness away from the church He made flesh spiritual

The prophecy is in fact concerning Isreal, not a "spiritual Israel who are actually gentiles". Again, Paul throughout these chapters maintains teh distinction between Gentiles and Israel. And in quoting from Isaiah in a "yet future" context, it is, yet future, and therefore does not describe what Jesus did for gentiles, or even the cross itself.

It speaks of when Jesus will in fact turn ungodliness away from all surviving Jacob, when He returns.

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

The prophecy is in fact concerning Isreal, not a "spiritual Israel who are actually gentiles". Again, Paul throughout these chapters maintains teh distinction between Gentiles and Israel. And in quoting from Isaiah in a "yet future" context, it is, yet future, and therefore does not describe what Jesus did for gentiles, or even the cross itself.

It speaks of when Jesus will in fact turn ungodliness away from all surviving Jacob, when He returns.

Much love!

Isaiah 59 is about sin separating man from God. Jesus was the redeemer who came in the first advent and redeemed mankind.

Spiritual Israel is both Jew and gentile not just gentiles as they are all saved in the same way.

 

[marks]

Isaiah 59 is about sin separating man from God. Jesus was the redeemer who came in the first advent and redeemed mankind.

And Paul quoted it, using this prophecy as the foundation for his statement that all Israel will in fact be saved, in a time future to his writing.

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

And Paul quoted it, using this prophecy as the foundation for his statement that all Israel will in fact be saved, in a time future to his writing.

Much love!

Or "all Israel will be saved" means that when the fullness of the church comes in all Israel (Christian Jews & Gentiles) will be saved

 

[marks]

Or "all Israel will be saved" means that when the fullness of the church comes in all Israel (Christian Jews & Gentiles) will be saved

In quoting Isaiah's prophecy, we are bound to the context of that prophecy, which concerned the Israel of that day. There is no foundation to consider the Gentiles as some kind of Spiritual Israel.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

The ultimately true Biblical theology.



Much love!

Example?

 

[marks]

Example?

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

In quoting Isaiah's prophecy, we are bound to the context of that prophecy, which concerned the Israel of that day. There is no foundation to consider the Gentiles as some kind of Spiritual Israel.

Much love!

Then how about what Paul also said

Galatians 6

Not Circumcision but the New Creation​

11 See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!

12 Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. 14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.

Who is the Israel of God?

 

[covenantee]

Jeremiah 31:35-37 KJV
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Much love!

What of that has replacement theology replaced?

 

[KUWN]

The Gentile inclusion in the new covenant was ordained by God that the gentiles would come into Israel, and so join them in their covenant. Only after Israel rejected Jesus their Messiah did God then bypass Israel to bring the Gospel directly to the Gentiles.

I don't hold to your view here. The Gentiles have always had the saving message from God. From Abel and Cain onward.

 

[marks]

Then how about what Paul also said

Galatians 6

Not Circumcision but the New Creation​

11 See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!

12 Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh. 14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[a] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.

Who is the Israel of God?

Already answered . . .

Isaiah's prophecy will be fulfilled, just as Paul affirmed, to the people to whom it was given, the children of Jacob.

Much love!

 

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I don't hold to your view here. The Gentiles have always had the saving message from God. From Abel and Cain onward.

There wasn't a distinction between the nations until God chose Israel from among the others.

Much love!