22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truth7t7]

Matt 11.18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

Matt 22.8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

Biblical scripture, who's it speaking to "National Israel"?

Is this "National Repentance Day", Murderers, Adulterers, Fornicators, Liars, And Cheats go change your clothes, we have priestly garments ready for you?

 

[Truther]

.. and smart enough to get you all worked up over nothing.

Debunking your Bible with James Strong is nothing?

 

[Truther]

That's not what the KJV translators themselves asserted. From the preface to the 1611 KJV, emphases mine:

Now to answer our enemies: we do not deny, rather we affirm and insist that the very worst translation of the Bible in English issued by Protestants (for we have seen no Catholic version of the whole Bible as yet) contains the word of God, or rather, is the word of God.

The KJV is better than their predecessors because of the election process.

 

[Truther]

Link?

Otherwise, bunk.

A Dire Warning About Dr. James Strong

Another....


Though James Strong was a professor, he was NOT a professor in Greek or Hebrew, and was not fluent in these languages, he received nothing but a summary introduction education in these languages. And his credentials as a Doctorate of theology are only honorary; even though he became a professor of Biblical Literature and Exegetical Theology at Troy University and Drew theological seminary in New York.

The Problem With Using Strong’s Concordance Dictionary.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Zechariah 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom!

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

You seem to be skipping over significant aspects of this prophetic word. The events described in this prophecy take place in Jerusalem. These are not Christians or even believers. These are Jewish residents living in Jerusalem. Foreign armies come against Jerusalem and take spoils from the city. The Lord fights against those armies. When the Lord returns he sets foot on the Mount of Olives. An earthquake forms a valley through which the residents of Jerusalem can flee to Azel, which symbolically represents the Mount of Olives where Jesus is located. The people to out to meet him there. Then the Lord will be king over all the earth.

And

Everyone in the world will be required to go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of Booths.

None of this happens in a single day; none of it marks the end of history.

 

[Timtofly]

Baloney. You made that up.

You might as well say 'there are no alps'. The last week of history not only will exist, but is very important.

Confused and mixed up mischievous word mulch.

No.
Why would some angel step one foot on the earth and one on the sea to yell in a loud voice that time was up if Jesus had ALREADY returned!!?

Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

Nothing sounds for seven days you made that up. The abomination of desolation starts the Great Tribulation, it does not exist for years before it starts!

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Only after we see that abomination stand in the holy place will the Tribulation start.
More confused utterances. Explain what that is supposed to mean?

Ha. It might help if you stopped making stuff up. I would suggest the milk of the word. Your attempts at trying to chew on the meaty parts have ended badly.

You made up the 7 years.

I was reading Revelation 13. You can read it too. Satan is given 42 months, no less, no more.

Explain how Jesus is on earth at the final harvest per Matthew 13, if you deny Jesus is here, in contradiction to Jesus' clear teaching?

 

[covenantee]

The KJV is better than their predecessors because of the election process.

That's not what its creators said. Again:

Now to answer our enemies: we do not deny, rather we affirm and insist that the very worst translation of the Bible in English issued by Protestants (for we have seen no Catholic version of the whole Bible as yet) contains the word of God, or rather, is the word of God.

The arguments of the KJV-only contingent are demolished by no less than the KJV creators themselves.

 

[covenantee]

A Dire Warning About Dr. James Strong

Another....


Though James Strong was a professor, he was NOT a professor in Greek or Hebrew, and was not fluent in these languages, he received nothing but a summary introduction education in these languages. And his credentials as a Doctorate of theology are only honorary; even though he became a professor of Biblical Literature and Exegetical Theology at Troy University and Drew theological seminary in New York.

The Problem With Using Strong’s Concordance Dictionary.

What is the recommended alternative to Strong?

 

[Truth7t7]

You seem to be skipping over significant aspects of this prophetic word. The events described in this prophecy take place in Jerusalem. These are not Christians or even believers. These are Jewish residents living in Jerusalem. Foreign armies come against Jerusalem and take spoils from the city. The Lord fights against those armies. When the Lord returns he sets foot on the Mount of Olives. An earthquake forms a valley through which the residents of Jerusalem can flee to Azel, which symbolically represents the Mount of Olives where Jesus is located. The people to out to meet him there. Then the Lord will be king over all the earth.

And

Everyone in the world will be required to go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of Booths.

None of this happens in a single day; none of it marks the end of history.

That seen is the eternal kingdom, the day of the Lord has taken place as seen in 2 Peter 3:10, the river of life is flowing in Zechariah 14:8, and yes the feast of booths, sabbath days, and new moons, will be seen in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

 

[Truth7t7]

That's not what its creators said. Again:

Now to answer our enemies: we do not deny, rather we affirm and insist that the very worst translation of the Bible in English issued by Protestants (for we have seen no Catholic version of the whole Bible as yet) contains the word of God, or rather, is the word of God.

The arguments of the KJV-only contingent are demolished by no less than the KJV creators themselves.

Greek Received Text Only

 

[Randy Kluth]

You told me that you were assuming, in answer to what I said here...,

[How do those of this future millennium own it Randy?
It cannot be by faith in the glory they already see in a future millennium.]

Yes, all that is true. We are both "assuming" things. That's all I tried to convey, because while you have reason for asking the question, I have answers to the question.

It cannot be by the same process as Jesus is seen in all his glory when he comes again.
[ Randy said] On the contrary, everybody in Israel saw Jesus at his 1st Coming, and they certainly did not inherit his glory. ]

.

Thats right, because Jesus wasnt revealed in all his glory at his first coming. This gave room for exercising saving faith.:) Today is the day of salvation and Jesus could come tomorrow if you know what I mean.
When he appears, we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is.
The second coming of Jesus is very different. He comes in all the glory of the Father. Only the saved can see this event of the ages and live.

Heb 12
25 See to it that you do not refuse [to listen to] Him who is speaking [to you now]. For if those [sons of Israel] did not escape when they refused [to listen to] him who warned them on earth [revealing God’s will], how much less will we escape if we turn our backs on Him who warns from heaven?

26 His voice shook the earth [at Mount Sinai] then, but now He has given a promise, saying, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the [starry] heaven.” 27 Now this [expression], “Yet once more,” indicates the removal and final transformation of all those things which can be shaken—that is, of that which has been created—so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, and offer to God pleasing service and acceptable worship with reverence and awe; 29 for our God is [indeed] a consuming fire.

Yes, the 2nd Coming is different from the 1st Coming, inasmuch as Jesus will come with power and glory. However, it is not the kind of glory that mortals can inherit or experience. It is only something those turned immortal can inherit and have.

That's my point. Those who as mortals enter into the Millennial Age do not yet inherit the Kingdom, even though Jesus comes with glory. That glory will annihilate his enemies, and leave survivors who will not yet be able to enjoy the Eternal Kingdom until it comes down from heaven at the end of the Millennium. Only immortals will enter into that glory at the 2nd Coming of Christ.

This is how I explain your question. I'm not sure if that addresses it adequately or not?

 

[Zao is life]

The KJV is better than their predecessors because of the election process.

Your superstitious faith in the divine inspiration of the KJV has you believing that wherever the original Greek texts disagree with the KJV, the English translation (KJV) is the divinely inspired original text.

It's just a translation, one which I use among a number of translations, and I've come across a number of mistranslated words. Many times. Three of them are serious enough to have formed a very superstitious false doctrine in the minds of millions.

 

[Timtofly]

David was forgiven of his murder and adultery

David died being married to Bathsheba "after" her husband was dead, no more Adultery was seen

David died a repentant Murderer, read the Psalm

The curse you mention, where is it?

Randy's suggested harm isn't going to silence the truth

So it is OK to murder someone to not be in adultery, because after they are dead you can be forgiven of both murder and adultery? That is messed up logic there.

 

[covenantee]

Greek Received Text Only

Many more than KJV.

English translations from the Textus Receptus[edit]

• Tyndale New Testament 1526–1530
• Coverdale Bible 1535
• Matthew Bible 1537
• Taverner's Bible 1539
• Great Bible 1539
• Geneva Bible 1560-1644
• Bishops' Bible 1568
• Douay–Rheims Bible 1582, 1610, 1749-52. Base translation is from the Vulgate but 1749-1752 editions onwards (Challoner revisions) contain major borrowings from the Tyndale, Geneva and King James versions.[30][31][32]
• King James Version 1611, 1613, 1629, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, 1850
• English Dort Version 1657, English translation of the Statenvertaling by Theodore Haak
• Quaker Bible 1764
• Webster's Revision 1833
• Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 1862, 1887, 1898
• Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (EBR) 1872 edition.
• Cambridge Paragraph Bible 1873 edition of the KJV in paragraph format, edited by F. H. A. Scrivener.
• Julia E. Smith Parker Translation 1876
• New King James Version (NKJV) 1982 (New Testament 1979). With an anglicized version originally known as the "Revised Authorized Version".
• Green's Literal Translation 1985. Included in The Interlinear Translation 1986.
• Third Millennium Bible 1998
• New Cambridge Paragraph Bible 2005 edition of the KJV, paragraph format with modernised spelling; edited by David Norton.
• Modern English Version 2014[33]
• Literal Standard Version 2020

 

[Truth7t7]

So it is OK to murder someone to not be in adultery, because after they are dead you can be forgiven of both murder and adultery? That is messed up logic there.

At no time have I stated such, it's your false claim

 

[Truth7t7]

Many more than KJV.

English translations from the Textus Receptus[edit]

• Tyndale New Testament 1526–1530
• Coverdale Bible 1535
• Matthew Bible 1537
• Taverner's Bible 1539
• Great Bible 1539
• Geneva Bible 1560-1644
• Bishops' Bible 1568
• Douay–Rheims Bible 1582, 1610, 1749-52. Base translation is from the Vulgate but 1749-1752 editions onwards (Challoner revisions) contain major borrowings from the Tyndale, Geneva and King James versions.[30][31][32]
• King James Version 1611, 1613, 1629, 1664, 1701, 1744, 1762, 1769, 1850
• English Dort Version 1657, English translation of the Statenvertaling by Theodore Haak
• Quaker Bible 1764
• Webster's Revision 1833
• Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 1862, 1887, 1898
• Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (EBR) 1872 edition.
• Cambridge Paragraph Bible 1873 edition of the KJV in paragraph format, edited by F. H. A. Scrivener.
• Julia E. Smith Parker Translation 1876
• New King James Version (NKJV) 1982 (New Testament 1979). With an anglicized version originally known as the "Revised Authorized Version".
• Green's Literal Translation 1985. Included in The Interlinear Translation 1986.
• Third Millennium Bible 1998
• New Cambridge Paragraph Bible 2005 edition of the KJV, paragraph format with modernised spelling; edited by David Norton.
• Modern English Version 2014[33]
• Literal Standard Version 2020

Thanks for your research

The bibles prior to the 1611 KJV are basically unreadable to the average person today, it goes beyond "Old English" which is difficult to read quickly

I have used the KJV for my entire Christian life, if it works no need to fix it

 

[Taken]

Since abandoning Premillennialism...

I want to list some of the issues that forced me to eventually abandon Premillennialism and embrace Amillennialism. My main reason for abandoning Premil was the severe lack of corroboration.

IN Brief.

Who came TO Earth....Son of Man, (Jesus), Word of God, (God).
Revealed ON Earth......God Purposed IN Himself, to Accomplish His will.
Revealed ON Earth......Jesus declared, Son of God.
Revealed ON Earth......Jesus IS the Christ.
Revealed ON Earth......Christ IS the Power of God.
Revealed ON Earth......Christ IS the Wisdom of God.
Revealed ON Earth......Christ IS the Seed of God.
Implied ON Earth........Jesus IS the Last Adam.
Revealed ON Earth......Last Adam IS the Quickening Spirit.
Revealed ON Earth......Jesus, same yesterday, today, for ever.
Revealed ON Earth......Jesus, IS holy, savior, Lamb of God, servant, Divider, Lord, on and on.
Revealed ON Earth......God shall Send from Heaven, Tribulation and Wrath upon the Earth, and all occupants who are NOT baring Gods Seal.

Before Heavenly Tribulation...The Lord summons His Church Up from the face of the earth His Church are all men IN Christ. They are summoned to the Lower Heavens (clouds), and there MEET THEIR Lord, and from there forth are always WITH THEIR Lord.

The Lamb IN Heaven begins opening the Book of Seven Seals. As each seal is opened, Satan (who is ON Earth and his angels) ARE given great powers, to conquer, control economy, kill, burn, destroy, capture, influence men followers, mark men who make allegiance to him.

A Lamb IS ON Mt Zion, Earth, with Israels Tribesmen, who have been summoned to the Mt.

One Likened to the Son of Man, appears ON a White Cloud, with Glory, and SEEN, by ALL men.

The Son of Man, sitting ON White Cloud, REAPS the population, Separating the Divided, with Him, from those without Him.

God Sends His Tribulation, Wrath, Vengeance upon those remaining alive on Earth, who Accepted Satan’s Mark.

Satan; his Angels removed from the face of the Earth bound, 1,000 years.

Jesus, Son of Man (with Power) returns to Earth, with His saints. Occupies His Inherited Throne, in Jerusalem, Occupies His Inherited Kingdom, (Abrahams’ Promised Land).

Believing Mortals surviving the Tribulations and Wrath’s (sent from Heaven,) Repopulate the Earth, establish Nations, appoint kings, who rule their Nations according to the Word of God, (KING of kings); for 1,000 yrs.

End of 1,000 yrs, Satan and his angels loosed from bondage. Again influences the Nations of Mortals to come Against The Lord Jesus’ Kingdom.
1) Mortals who come to battle Against Jesus’ Kingdom are Killed by His Word/ Sword of Power.
2) Spiritual warfare, holy and demonic angels. Satan and all his angels sent to the Lake of Fire for ever.

Throughout the time frame...
Jesus Son of Man is IN Heaven, Lamb of God is IN Heaven, Lamb IS on Earth, Lord IS IN Clouds with Christs Church, Son of Man is IN Lower Heaven ON a Cloud, Reaps the Earth, Separates Saved from UnSaved, God pours out His Tribulation, Wrath, Vengeance upon the Marked, Jesus with Power, Returns claims His Throne inheritance, claims His Land inheritance, Rules over all Earthly Nations KING of kings, Battles mortals with His Word, the influenced mortal nations;

Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient ... distinct roles and overlapping simultaneous Works of God that FIRST accomplished...FINISH and then SECONDLY accomplish.....DONE, having dealt with every terrestrial and celestial being.....WITH and WITHOUT the Lord God Almighty....
According to His ORDER and WAY.

(1) Premil is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, one chapter in the Bible – Revelation 20.

Not True.
From Beginning to End of Every individual Terrestrial manKIND and Celestial host......covers multiple Scriptures.....LONG before arriving at Revelations, God gave Jesus, who gave to His faithful Servant John, to any man who freely chooses to be enlightened with Gods Knowledge.

For example:

· For years, it has been the Premil mantra that Jesus will be ruling in majesty and glory with a rod of iron for 1000 years on planet earth after the second coming. But this can be found nowhere in Revelation 20 or any other passage in Scripture?

What do you think Glory and Rod of Iron “RULING” means?
Assistant manager? ......or the Boss of Bosses?
KING of kings ring a bell?


Looking IN Scripture for “YOUR satisfactory WORDS to appear”, IS fruitless.

* Remember...Scripture gives KNOWLEDGE...EVEN EVIL spirits and WICKED men can GRASP KNOWLEDGE.
* Remember...UNDERSTANDING Gods Knowledge....is given From the Lord God ONLY, Via, His Wisdom and ONLY to those that ARE HIS.
* Remember....Men MAKE their Decisions to BELIEVE “AND” Commit while alive in their flesh.
* Remember...NO MAN receives his soul Salvation and spirit quickening..........UNTIL AFTER A BODILY DEATH OCCURS.

It is disingenuous to make a long list of what you do not believe, but speak as if, you are speaking for what others DO BELIEVE....while adding in your opinions that have nothing to do with what others believe.

 

[covenantee]

Thanks for your research

The bibles prior to the 1611 KJV are basically unreadable to the average person today, it goes beyond "Old English" which is difficult to read quickly

I have used the KJV for my entire Christian life, if it works no need to fix it

You're welcome.

No version is completely free of errors. That includes the KJV.

If someone receives Christ as a result of reading e.g. the NIV, his/her salvation is legitimate.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're welcome.

No version is completely free of errors. That includes the KJV.

If someone receives Christ as a result of reading e.g. the NIV, his/her salvation is legitimate.

Those that receive Jesus Christ are called, chosen, and sealed by the Holy Spirit

Your suggestion on reading a specific version to obtain salvation is way off base

The NIV is a "Counterfeit" of God's truth, just as a orange dollar bill is counterfeit American tender

 

[covenantee]

Those that receive Jesus Christ are called, chosen, and sealed by the Holy Spirit

Your suggestion on reading a specific version to obtain salvation is way off base

The NIV is a "Counterfeit" of God's truth, just as a orange dollar bill is counterfeit American tender

"Your suggestion on reading a specific version to obtain salvation is way off base".

Thanks for the guffaw. Can you understand plain English? Do you know what "e.g." means?

The KJV was not released until 1611, so obviously nobody "obtained salvation" before then.

From the preface to the KJV by its translators, who would characterize you as an adversary:

An Answer to the Imputations of Our Adversaries
Now to the latter we answer; that we do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession, (for we have seen none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.

That would include the NIV and every other recognized translation.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

That would include the NIV and every other recognized translation.

Stop denigrating the variants of God's Word through which multitudes have experienced salvation in Christ over many years.

Errors in the King James Version – The Superior Word