Why I Am a Cessationist

[Johann]

That would mean God is dead and a liar, for He has said, "Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them” Isaiah 42:9.

God is very much alive.

“And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry.”
— Ephesians 4:11-13

Paul warns us about those who, whether wittingly or unwittingly, would spread unsound doctrine among us. We are living in a time when some of the brethren seem to deem it important to find something new. Of course, it is not our intent to discourage anyone in regard to exercising the “Berean spirit.” However, care should be taken not to undermine the foundation upon which our faith rests. We do well to remember that the “Doctrinal Statement” our forefathers forged for us was a product of intense debate with the denominational leaders of their day. Each plank of the statement was carefully crafted as a defense and confirmation of the Fundamentals of the faith and Paul’s gospel. Therefore, let us not be too quick to challenge those things which are “tried and true.”

At this late hour, there are those who tell us that the “gifts” of evangelists, pastors and teachers or pastor-teachers are no longer in operation today. Some have even gone as far to say that the enabling “gifts” have also passed. This flies in the face of our “Doctrinal Statement,” which has served us well for over fifty years. It states:

“The gifts necessary for the ministry of the Body of Christ are those enumerated in Eph. 4:7-16. Of these, only the gifts of evangelists and pastor-teachers are in operation today. All the sign gifts of the Acts period, such as tongues, prophecy and healing (I Cor. 12:1-31), being temporary in character, have ceased (I Cor. 13:8-11).”

Here in Ephesians, one of Paul’s later epistles, the apostle sets the tone for the course of this dispensation. Clearly, the context of this portion concerns itself with the gifts God has given to His Church. It is true that the gifts of “apostles” and “prophets” passed with the completion of the Word of God (I Cor. 13:8-13 cf. Col. 1:25). Once the Word of God was dispensed, these two offices and the gifted men who held them were nonessential. We now have something far better, the written revelation that they handed down to us, which is to be obeyed in matters of faith and practice.

There is no indication, whatsoever, that the gifts of evangelists, pastors and teachers have ever been withdrawn. In fact, Paul plainly states their purpose: “For the perfecting [maturing] of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying [building up] of the Body of Christ.” And how long shall this continue? “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge [Gr. epignosis — full knowledge] of the Son of God” (Eph. 4:13).

Surely, it could not be said there has ever been a period in Church history, past or present, that the “unity of the faith” has been attained, much less a “full knowledge” of the Son of God. But this is exactly what we are being asked to believe; that is, the unity of the faith has been attained. Perhaps, we should put this to the Berean test.

Creation: Some believe God created all things in six literal twenty- four hour days. Others teach the “ruin and reconstruction theory” that God created, destroyed and re-created. This is commonly called the “gap theory” which places millions or billions of years between the original creation and the re-creation.

Redemption: The battle has raged for centuries over whether Christ died for the sins of all mankind or merely for the sins of the elect. Which do you believe?

Things to Come: It is well known there are those who believe the events covered in the Book of Revelation are entirely futuristic. Many would challenge this assertion as absurd. They teach that the early chapters of the Apocalypse describe the various stages of Church history up to the present “Laodicean” age. If we agree that there are two camps of interpretation on any Biblical subject, then we have yet to come into the unity of the faith.

There is not one scintilla of evidence that the “unity of the faith” has ever been attained by all. Even in Paul’s day, the saints were wielding the sword of the Spirit against one another (II Tim. 1:15 cf. 2:17-19). In addition, we must inquire: Has the Church come to a full knowledge of the Son of God? That is, of His person, work and present heavenly ministry. We shall answer this question with a question: Has the Church, which is His Body, acknowledged the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the Mystery?

The “unity of the faith” and a “full knowledge” of Christ is a goal set before us that will never be fully attained until the Rapture. Thus, the responsibility of Gods gifts to His Church is to proclaim the whole counsel of God in light of the Pauline epistles. Why? that the saints might be established in the faith!

There is also an experiential side to this truth as well. When God called me into the ministry nearly thirty years ago, it was definitive. Other pastors have testified of similar experiences, which confirms that the “gifts and callings of God are without repentance” (Rom. 11:29). Beware of those who would rob you of this precious truth!

God's Gifts To His Church

Scripture Reading: "And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry." -- Ephesians 4:11-13 Paul warns us about those who, whether wittingly or unwittingly, would spread unsound do

bereanbiblesociety.org

 

[ScottA]

God is very much alive.

“And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry.”
— Ephesians 4:11-13

Paul warns us about those who, whether wittingly or unwittingly, would spread unsound doctrine among us. We are living in a time when some of the brethren seem to deem it important to find something new. Of course, it is not our intent to discourage anyone in regard to exercising the “Berean spirit.” However, care should be taken not to undermine the foundation upon which our faith rests. We do well to remember that the “Doctrinal Statement” our forefathers forged for us was a product of intense debate with the denominational leaders of their day. Each plank of the statement was carefully crafted as a defense and confirmation of the Fundamentals of the faith and Paul’s gospel. Therefore, let us not be too quick to challenge those things which are “tried and true.”

At this late hour, there are those who tell us that the “gifts” of evangelists, pastors and teachers or pastor-teachers are no longer in operation today. Some have even gone as far to say that the enabling “gifts” have also passed. This flies in the face of our “Doctrinal Statement,” which has served us well for over fifty years. It states:

“The gifts necessary for the ministry of the Body of Christ are those enumerated in Eph. 4:7-16. Of these, only the gifts of evangelists and pastor-teachers are in operation today. All the sign gifts of the Acts period, such as tongues, prophecy and healing (I Cor. 12:1-31), being temporary in character, have ceased (I Cor. 13:8-11).”

Here in Ephesians, one of Paul’s later epistles, the apostle sets the tone for the course of this dispensation. Clearly, the context of this portion concerns itself with the gifts God has given to His Church. It is true that the gifts of “apostles” and “prophets” passed with the completion of the Word of God (I Cor. 13:8-13 cf. Col. 1:25). Once the Word of God was dispensed, these two offices and the gifted men who held them were nonessential. We now have something far better, the written revelation that they handed down to us, which is to be obeyed in matters of faith and practice.

There is no indication, whatsoever, that the gifts of evangelists, pastors and teachers have ever been withdrawn. In fact, Paul plainly states their purpose: “For the perfecting [maturing] of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying [building up] of the Body of Christ.” And how long shall this continue? “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge [Gr. epignosis — full knowledge] of the Son of God” (Eph. 4:13).

Surely, it could not be said there has ever been a period in Church history, past or present, that the “unity of the faith” has been attained, much less a “full knowledge” of the Son of God. But this is exactly what we are being asked to believe; that is, the unity of the faith has been attained. Perhaps, we should put this to the Berean test.

Creation: Some believe God created all things in six literal twenty- four hour days. Others teach the “ruin and reconstruction theory” that God created, destroyed and re-created. This is commonly called the “gap theory” which places millions or billions of years between the original creation and the re-creation.

Redemption: The battle has raged for centuries over whether Christ died for the sins of all mankind or merely for the sins of the elect. Which do you believe?

Things to Come: It is well known there are those who believe the events covered in the Book of Revelation are entirely futuristic. Many would challenge this assertion as absurd. They teach that the early chapters of the Apocalypse describe the various stages of Church history up to the present “Laodicean” age. If we agree that there are two camps of interpretation on any Biblical subject, then we have yet to come into the unity of the faith.

There is not one scintilla of evidence that the “unity of the faith” has ever been attained by all. Even in Paul’s day, the saints were wielding the sword of the Spirit against one another (II Tim. 1:15 cf. 2:17-19). In addition, we must inquire: Has the Church come to a full knowledge of the Son of God? That is, of His person, work and present heavenly ministry. We shall answer this question with a question: Has the Church, which is His Body, acknowledged the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the Mystery?

The “unity of the faith” and a “full knowledge” of Christ is a goal set before us that will never be fully attained until the Rapture. Thus, the responsibility of Gods gifts to His Church is to proclaim the whole counsel of God in light of the Pauline epistles. Why? that the saints might be established in the faith!

There is also an experiential side to this truth as well. When God called me into the ministry nearly thirty years ago, it was definitive. Other pastors have testified of similar experiences, which confirms that the “gifts and callings of God are without repentance” (Rom. 11:29). Beware of those who would rob you of this precious truth!

God's Gifts To His Church

Scripture Reading: "And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry." -- Ephesians 4:11-13 Paul warns us about those who, whether wittingly or unwittingly, would spread unsound do

bereanbiblesociety.org

You have given the foretold "false teachers" a pass, and thus act in accord with the "lie" that was also foretold to be believed. What foundation have you, if you skip over the warnings and claim righteous doctrine coming from false teachings according to the warnings given by those former apostles you still honor?

And what foundation is it that now claims there is something new under the sun by omitting those parts not seen during these days?

This is correction--just as Paul described. But as a matter of reason, allow me to offer the explanation for why such omissions were made and believed: It is because "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46). Christ as the First and the Last, was the Last of Israel and performed the Last of the great natural miracles, even among His apostles of that generation. But the transition from natural to spiritual had occurred, meaning "greater things than these" were then to witnessed--greater than natural (John 1:50). This is the change that occurred causing some to loose faith, and many to believe the "lie"--that all is fulfilled in the flesh, even the return of Christ as firstfruits. The transition of Christ was rejected (again).

 

[Johann]

For myself, I see a difference between the "signs and wonders"/works of an Apostle and the ministry gifts. I think God gave certain gifts to His Apostles to authenticate their ministries, as with Jesus. And I think God still gives certain gifts so we will minister according to His power.

Much love!

You have given the foretold "false teachers" a pass, and thus act in accord with the "lie" that was also foretold to be believed. What foundation have you, if you skip over the warnings and claim righteous doctrine coming from false teachings according to the warnings given by those former apostles you still honor?

Care to explain this? Which false teachers and what former apostles?

I am at the gym, working out my "anger issues" plus I'm tired, so be warned-think on your feet and rephrase your statement and answer my questions.

 

[ScottA]

Care to explain this? Which false teachers and what former apostles?

I am at the gym, working out my "anger issues" plus I'm tired, so be warned-think on your feet and rephrase your statement and answer my questions.

Peter warned of false teachers entering into the church (2 Peter 2:1). Paul foretold the believing of a lie causing strong delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:11). The apostle John said it was already at work (1 John 4;3). Which means, in spite of being a royal priesthood given the keys to the kingdom, great apostacy would ensue. Thus, no great claim can be biblically and rightfully made in defense of church teachings.

 

[Johann]

Peter warned of false teachers entering into the church (2 Peter 2:1). Paul foretold the believing of a lie causing strong delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:11). The apostle John said it was already at work (1 John 4;3). Which means, in spite of being a royal priesthood given the keys to the kingdom, great apostacy would ensue. Thus, no great claim can be biblically and rightfully made in defense of church teachings.

What "church teachings?"

 

[ScottA]

What "church teachings?"

The specific teachings were not stated by Peter. However, they were stated by Jesus: They are the teachings of Jesus, not believed, nor taught. Do you know which ones they are?

I ask, because I have thus far made no secret as to what they are, but few if any have believed my report. So, perhaps it is better that you answer for yourself.

 

[Johann]

Peter warned of false teachers entering into the church (2 Peter 2:1). Paul foretold the believing of a lie causing strong delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:11). The apostle John said it was already at work (1 John 4;3). Which means, in spite of being a royal priesthood given the keys to the kingdom, great apostacy would ensue. Thus, no great claim can be biblically and rightfully made in defense of church teachings.

Paul warns us about those who, whether wittingly or unwittingly, would spread unsound doctrine among us. We are living in a time when some of the brethren seem to deem it important to find something new. Of course, it is not our intent to discourage anyone in regard to exercising the “Berean spirit.” However, care should be taken not to undermine the foundation upon which our faith rests. We do well to remember that the “Doctrinal Statement” our forefathers forged for us was a product of intense debate with the denominational leaders of their day. Each plank of the statement was carefully crafted as a defense and confirmation of the Fundamentals of the faith and Paul’s gospel. Therefore, let us not be too quick to challenge those things which are “tried and true.”

Was it this that sparked your response?

 

[Johann]

The specific teachings were not stated by Peter. However, they were stated by Jesus: They are the teachings of Jesus, not believed, nor taught. Do you know which ones they are?

I ask, because I have thus far made no secret as to what they are, but few if any have believed my report. So, perhaps it is better that you answer for yourself.

I take it you are the "red letter" guy and what about the 13 Pauline epistles, no doctrines to be found there?

 

[Cassandra]

If you want to talk to me in the spirit, I’m listening...I don’t listen to religious talk telling their stories from what the written word to be saying..it’s boring and no spiritual life in their words...talking in the spirit feeds my spirit/ heart/ ....spirit talk.
Short commentary.
What does the Bible say about feeding the Spirit?
The Bible says that feeding the flesh (feelings that lead to bitterness, perfection, addictions, and anger) leads to death and destruction. The fruit of feeding our desires is rotten and can slowly start to destroy you. However, when we feed the Spirit, it leads to life, peace, and joy.

How many posts do you have to make to answer a post?
Also, good to see you are using that "full of religious dogma" Bible. That is how you feed the spirit.
I showed you exactly what the Bible says. You find that boring?
Wow. When I told you you need to read your Bible, you told me you didn't need religious dogma.
Rev 1:3

You believe what you want. I don't care. It's your soul. But just remember Satan talks to people too. And don't tell me he doesn't talk to you. He talked to Jesus as well. There is only one way you can tell it is not him. Jesus was tempted, and you who are much, much less than Him are also tempted whether you believe it or not How did Jesus fight the devil?

IT IS WRITTEN

 

[Johann]

IT IS WRITTEN

Well said @Cassandra

Temptation in the Wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-13):

Jesus responds to each of Satan's temptations by quoting Scripture:
First temptation: Turning stones to bread - "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God" (Deuteronomy 8:3).

Second temptation: Throwing Himself down from the temple - "You shall not put the Lord your God to the test" (Deuteronomy 6:16).
Third temptation: Worshiping Satan for worldly kingdoms - "You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve" (Deuteronomy 6:13).
Confrontation with Pharisees and Sadducees:

Sabbath Controversy (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-5):
Disciples plucking grain on the Sabbath - Jesus cites David eating the consecrated bread (1 Samuel 21:1-6) and emphasizes, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" (Hosea 6:6).

Question on Divorce (Matthew 19:3-9; Mark 10:2-12):
Jesus refers to Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 to uphold the sanctity of marriage and God's original design.

Paying Taxes to Caesar (Matthew 22:15-22; Mark 12:13-17; Luke 20:20-26):
Jesus responds with, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's," invoking the principle of civic duty and divine allegiance.
Resurrection Debate with Sadducees (Matthew 22:23-33; Mark 12:18-27; Luke 20:27-40):
Jesus cites Exodus 3:6, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob," affirming the resurrection by emphasizing God as the God of the living.
Clearing the Temple (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-17; Luke 19:45-46; John 2:13-22):

Jesus drives out the money changers and quotes Isaiah 56:7 and Jeremiah 7:11, declaring, "My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you make it a den of robbers."
Greatest Commandment Debate (Matthew 22:34-40; Mark 12:28-34):

Jesus summarizes the Law by quoting Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind... and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Claiming to be the Messiah (John 5:39-47):

Jesus rebukes the Jewish leaders for their unbelief, stating, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me."
Teaching in the Synagogue at Nazareth (Luke 4:16-21):

Jesus reads from Isaiah 61:1-2 and declares its fulfillment in Him, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."
Triumphal Entry (Matthew 21:1-11; John 12:12-16):

Jesus fulfills Zechariah 9:9 by riding into Jerusalem on a donkey, a deliberate action that invokes prophetic Scripture.
Passion Predictions (Matthew 26:31; Mark 14:27):

Jesus quotes Zechariah 13:7, "I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered," predicting His disciples' desertion.
Throughout His ministry, Jesus consistently used Scripture to validate His teachings, defend His actions, and challenge His opponents. These instances illustrate His profound knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures and His ability to apply them contextually and authoritatively.

And so should we use the Scriptures.
Shalom
Johann

 

[ScottA]

Paul warns us about those who, whether wittingly or unwittingly, would spread unsound doctrine among us. We are living in a time when some of the brethren seem to deem it important to find something new. Of course, it is not our intent to discourage anyone in regard to exercising the “Berean spirit.” However, care should be taken not to undermine the foundation upon which our faith rests. We do well to remember that the “Doctrinal Statement” our forefathers forged for us was a product of intense debate with the denominational leaders of their day. Each plank of the statement was carefully crafted as a defense and confirmation of the Fundamentals of the faith and Paul’s gospel. Therefore, let us not be too quick to challenge those things which are “tried and true.”

Was it this that sparked your response?

Yes.

 

[ScottA]

I take it you are the "red letter" guy and what about the 13 Pauline epistles, no doctrines to be found there?

That's not the point. The point rather is that church teachings are not to be considered wholly reliable....which was your reasoning and support of considering gifts or offices of the Spirit to be a thing of the past.

 

[Johann]

Yes.

I am not ashamed to say I lean toward Reformed theology brother and some early church fathers and if you want to burn me at the stake, go ahead-Voddie is a gifted preacher and teacher and we need more of his caliber and steel in this Age of Enlightenment and self appointed, self anointed apostels.

 

[Johann]

That's not the point. The point rather is that church teachings are not to be considered wholly reliable....which was your reasoning and support of considering gifts or offices of the Spirit to be a thing of the past.

Correction-the ministerial gifts are still operative, indicative you have not fully read my posts @ScottA now all I want you to do for me is give me the ministerial gifts.
I find the Reformers and early fathers to be informative and reliable but don't hold to TULIP, if you were wondering.

 

[ScottA]

I am not ashamed to say I leaned toward Reformed theology brother and some early church fathers and if you want to burn me at the stake, go ahead-Voddie is a gifted preacher and teacher and we need more of his caliber and steel in this Age of Enlightenment and self appointed, self anointed apostels.

I had/have no intentions of burning you at the stake. But rather to present the wall that exists before the point of impact, not made by me.

As for those admirable preachers and teachers, I applaud them. They taught with an unmeasurable discipline with little more than a mustard seed among thorns. Even so, the time has now come for the error and rejection of the church to be known. For before the end, the mystery of God is to be unsealed and is unsealed, and thereby finished.

Should I not tell you before it comes?

 

[Johann]

That's not the point. The point rather is that church teachings are not to be considered wholly reliable....which was your reasoning and support of considering gifts or offices of the Spirit to be a thing of the past.

Allow me to do this for you-

Spiritual Gifts (Charismata)
Spiritual gifts are special abilities given by the Holy Spirit to believers for the common good, the edification of the church, and the fulfillment of its mission. These gifts are detailed in several key passages:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

Wisdom (σοφία, sophia): The ability to apply knowledge insightfully.
Knowledge (γνῶσις, gnōsis): A deep understanding of spiritual truths.
Faith (πίστις, pistis): Unusual trust and confidence in God.
Healing (ἰάματα, iamata): Supernatural ability to heal diseases and infirmities.
Miracles (δυνάμεις, dynameis): Performing acts of divine power.
Prophecy (προφητεία, prophēteia): Declaring a message from God.
Distinguishing between spirits (διακρίσεις πνευμάτων, diakriseis pneumaton): Discernment of spiritual realities.
Tongues (γλῶσσαι, glōssai): Speaking in languages unknown to the speaker.
Interpretation of tongues (ἑρμηνεία γλωσσῶν, hermēneia glōssōn): Translating the message of tongues.
Romans 12:6-8

Prophecy (προφητεία, prophēteia): Similar to the gift in 1 Corinthians.
Service (διακονία, diakonia): Practical acts of help and support.
Teaching (διδασκαλία, didaskalia): Instructing others in the faith.
Exhortation (παράκλησις, paraklēsis): Encouraging and comforting others.
Giving (μεταδοτικός, metadotikos): Generosity and sharing resources.
Leadership (προΐστημι, proistēmi): Guiding and directing the church.
Mercy (ἐλεημοσύνη, eleēmōsynē): Compassion and acts of kindness.
Ephesians 4:11-13

Apostles (ἀπόστολοι, apostoloi): Sent ones, pioneers of the faith.
Prophets (προφῆται, prophētai): Receivers and proclaimers of divine revelation.
Evangelists (εὐαγγελισταί, euangelistai): Proclaimers of the gospel.
Pastors (ποιμένες, poimenes): Shepherds who care for the flock.
Teachers (διδάσκαλοι, didaskaloi): Instructors in doctrine and scripture.
Offices of the Holy Spirit
The offices within the church are roles of leadership and administration, intended to maintain order and facilitate the effective ministry of the church. Key offices include:

Apostles (ἀπόστολοι, apostoloi)

Foundational leaders who plant churches, oversee multiple congregations, and provide spiritual authority and direction.
Prophets (προφῆται, prophētai)

Individuals who provide guidance through divinely inspired messages, often addressing the future or the current state of affairs within the church.
Evangelists (εὐαγγελισταί, euangelistai)

Those dedicated to preaching the gospel, often traveling to spread the message and establish new believers in the faith.
Pastors (ποιμένες, poimenes)

Local church leaders who provide spiritual care, counseling, teaching, and oversight. They shepherd the congregation, ensuring its well-being and growth.
Teachers (διδάσκαλοι, didaskaloi)

Specialists in doctrine and scriptural interpretation who instruct the church in sound theology and ethical living.
Elders (πρεσβύτεροι, presbyteroi)

Senior leaders responsible for governance, teaching, and pastoral care within the local church. The term "elder" often overlaps with pastors in duties and responsibilities (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9).
Deacons (διάκονοι, diakonoi)

Servants who manage practical aspects of church life, such as distributing aid, managing resources, and assisting with administrative tasks (1 Timothy 3:8-13).

Now I want you to tell me ALL these are still operative?

 

[Johann]

I had/have no intentions of burning you at the stake. But rather to present the wall that exists before the point of impact, not made by me.

As for those admirable preachers and teachers, I applaud them. They taught with an unmeasurable discipline with little more than a mustard seed among thorns. Even so, the time has now come for the error and rejection of the church to be known. For before the end, the mystery of God is to be unsealed and is unsealed, and thereby finished.

Should I not tell you before it comes?

I take it you are a Preterist and familiar with eschatology?

 

[ScottA]

Correction-the ministerial gifts are still operative, indicative you have not fully read my posts @ScottA now all I want you to do for me is give me the ministerial gifts.
I find the Reformers and early fathers to be informative and reliable but don't hold to TULIP, if you were wondering.

What does it matter if I did not include the lessor gifts when you have excluded the greater gifts? I tell you--it does not matter.

As for the reformers and early fathers of the church, none held to all that was taught and spoken by Christ.

I don't know what TULIP is, other than a flower.

 

[ScottA]

Allow me to do this for you-

Spiritual Gifts (Charismata)
Spiritual gifts are special abilities given by the Holy Spirit to believers for the common good, the edification of the church, and the fulfillment of its mission. These gifts are detailed in several key passages:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

Wisdom (σοφία, sophia): The ability to apply knowledge insightfully.
Knowledge (γνῶσις, gnōsis): A deep understanding of spiritual truths.
Faith (πίστις, pistis): Unusual trust and confidence in God.
Healing (ἰάματα, iamata): Supernatural ability to heal diseases and infirmities.
Miracles (δυνάμεις, dynameis): Performing acts of divine power.
Prophecy (προφητεία, prophēteia): Declaring a message from God.
Distinguishing between spirits (διακρίσεις πνευμάτων, diakriseis pneumaton): Discernment of spiritual realities.
Tongues (γλῶσσαι, glōssai): Speaking in languages unknown to the speaker.
Interpretation of tongues (ἑρμηνεία γλωσσῶν, hermēneia glōssōn): Translating the message of tongues.
Romans 12:6-8

Prophecy (προφητεία, prophēteia): Similar to the gift in 1 Corinthians.
Service (διακονία, diakonia): Practical acts of help and support.
Teaching (διδασκαλία, didaskalia): Instructing others in the faith.
Exhortation (παράκλησις, paraklēsis): Encouraging and comforting others.
Giving (μεταδοτικός, metadotikos): Generosity and sharing resources.
Leadership (προΐστημι, proistēmi): Guiding and directing the church.
Mercy (ἐλεημοσύνη, eleēmōsynē): Compassion and acts of kindness.
Ephesians 4:11-13

Apostles (ἀπόστολοι, apostoloi): Sent ones, pioneers of the faith.
Prophets (προφῆται, prophētai): Receivers and proclaimers of divine revelation.
Evangelists (εὐαγγελισταί, euangelistai): Proclaimers of the gospel.
Pastors (ποιμένες, poimenes): Shepherds who care for the flock.
Teachers (διδάσκαλοι, didaskaloi): Instructors in doctrine and scripture.
Offices of the Holy Spirit
The offices within the church are roles of leadership and administration, intended to maintain order and facilitate the effective ministry of the church. Key offices include:

Apostles (ἀπόστολοι, apostoloi)

Foundational leaders who plant churches, oversee multiple congregations, and provide spiritual authority and direction.
Prophets (προφῆται, prophētai)

Individuals who provide guidance through divinely inspired messages, often addressing the future or the current state of affairs within the church.
Evangelists (εὐαγγελισταί, euangelistai)

Those dedicated to preaching the gospel, often traveling to spread the message and establish new believers in the faith.
Pastors (ποιμένες, poimenes)

Local church leaders who provide spiritual care, counseling, teaching, and oversight. They shepherd the congregation, ensuring its well-being and growth.
Teachers (διδάσκαλοι, didaskaloi)

Specialists in doctrine and scriptural interpretation who instruct the church in sound theology and ethical living.
Elders (πρεσβύτεροι, presbyteroi)

Senior leaders responsible for governance, teaching, and pastoral care within the local church. The term "elder" often overlaps with pastors in duties and responsibilities (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9).
Deacons (διάκονοι, diakonoi)

Servants who manage practical aspects of church life, such as distributing aid, managing resources, and assisting with administrative tasks (1 Timothy 3:8-13).

Now I want you to tell me ALL these are still operative?

There is no need for you to repeat the errors of what was not fully understood and falsely taught. Please, history does not--will not repeat itself on this matter.

 

[ScottA]

I take it you are a Preterist and familiar with eschatology?

Have we not had this "Preterist" conversation before? (I am not a Preterist)

Stop assuming.

You are acting and responding as those in Israel who knew the scriptures, but still crucified Christ. The point is--this is that same time for the gentiles, and just as Israel failed during their final generation before that transition that occurred with Christ, so too are the gentiles repeating the same mistakes.

To the contrary--the church should be well aware of the warnings knowing they have not been innocent, and should be pressed to figure out what it is they should have expected, but did not believe.