Why Antiochus Epiphanes IV Is Not The Little Horn - Part 2: "exceeding great"

[tailgator]

Please read verse 23 carefully! The fourth kingdom at one point (it has been in existence since the first century BC) rules the whole earth! aND FROM THAT WORLD RULE KINGDOM TEN KINGS ARISE WHO WILL RULE TH EWORLD AS TEN KINGS AND "TEN ZONES" IF YOU WILL. Then during thier reign, the antichrist rises to power, conquers three of the ten and takes world rule!

YOu still have not named the supposed ten Muslim nations you said will attack.

I'm betting you got the second kingdom wrong like most everyone does.The second kingdom was inferior to the first ,yet Persia was four times larger,four times stronger and lasted far longer than Babylon.
So how is it inferior when it kicked Babylons butt in one night?
Common sense says Persia was not inferior to Babylon.Persia is not in the kingdom prophecied of.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No,the fourth kingdom to rise in the middle east was not around in the first century.

And the roman empire was not even the fourth kingdom of the time.The Han dynasty in China came before the Roman empire.

All four beasts and four great kingdoms serve on e after the other. these kingdoms and the fourth in its four iterations are continuous and comprise the time of the Gentiles as Jesus spoke of.

The Han dynasty is irrelavent.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Let me ask you a question.
According to zech ,the nations attack Jerusalem on the day of the Lord and the lord goes to fight against those nations.They suffer a plague where they are consumed as they stand upon their feet.
If the ten nations were Catholic nations from Europe, then why does the word of God say the Muslim nation of Egypt suffers that plague?

Zech 14
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.


Not only are you lacking biblical knowledge,you lack common sense.Europeean nations don't want Jerusalem.The nations around Israel does because it is islams tthird holiest site.Europeams are just fine with Jerusalem being someone else's problem.

Iranians mark Jerusalem Day to support Palestinians, chant ‘death’ to America and Israel

Tens of Thousands of Iranians, some chanting “death to America” and “death to Israel,” marched in the capital of Tehran on Friday to mark Jerusalem Day, an annual show of support for the Palestinians.

highergroundtimes.com

Well I will gladly answer your question as soon as you answer mine that I have asked four or five times now.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm betting you got the second kingdom wrong like most everyone does.The second kingdom was inferior to the first ,yet Persia was four times larger,four times stronger and lasted far longer than Babylon.
So how is it inferior when it kicked Babylons butt in one night?
Common sense says Persia was not inferior to Babylon.Persia is not in the kingdom prophecied of.

The second kingdom was the medeo persian empire. Each succeeding kingdom was stronger than the one prior but lesser in "glory.

Medeo-Persia was stronger than Babylon, Greeks were stronger than the Medeo-Persian, and Rome was stronger than Greece.

 

[tailgator]

All four beasts and four great kingdoms serve on e after the other. these kingdoms and the fourth in its four iterations are continuous and comprise the time of the Gentiles as Jesus spoke of.

The Han dynasty is irrelavent.

The Han dynasty came before the Roman empire.
The Roman empire is irrelevant.The Han dynasty is a kingdom of the gentiles .

 

[tailgator]

The second kingdom was the medeo persian empire. Each succeeding kingdom was stronger than the one prior but lesser in "glory.

Medeo-Persia was stronger than Babylon, Greeks were stronger than the Medeo-Persian, and Rome was stronger than Greece.

So you agree with me that the Babylonian empire was inferior to the Persian empire.

Thank you very much for agreeing .There's nothing better than common sense when it comes to prophecy.Everyone should know and understand the kingdom that would rise after Babylon is inferior to Babylon ,therefore Persia is not the second kingdom in the prophecy.

Daniel 2;39
After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Han dynasty came before the Roman empire.
The Roman empire is irrelevant.The Han dynasty is a kingdom of the gentiles .

But they did not rule over Jerusalem.

The Egyptians were before Rome, the Hitties. Amelekites, Assyrians, Akkadians But they are not part of the statue nor th efour beasts spoken of in Daniel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you agree with me that the Babylonian empire was inferior to the Persian empire.

Thank you very much for agreeing .There's nothing better than common sense when it comes to prophecy.Everyone should know and understand the kingdom that would rise after Babylon is inferior to Babylon ,therefore Persia is not the second kingdom in the prophecy.

Daniel 2;39
After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.

In military power the Persians were superior, but in majesty and glory they were inferior to Babylon. there are dozens of books out there that explain the differences.

Daniel was shown a descending order of metals
Gold= Babylon
Silver= the Medeo/Persian EMpire
Brass= Greece
Iron and then iron and clay= Rome.

God said the descending order was inferior to the one ahead of it, so it is!

The word inferior is "ara' which by definition is earth or world. But when used in cases like this, means inferior or less noble as each metal shown was less noble than the previous metal.

 

[tailgator]

But they did not rule over Jerusalem.

The Egyptians were before Rome, the Hitties. Amelekites, Assyrians, Akkadians But they are not part of the statue nor th efour beasts spoken of in Daniel.

The prophecy doesn't say anything about Jerusalem and is not about Jerusalem.

You must thing the Muslims are saints since they controlled Jerusalem so long.

As of Now Jerusalem is a prostitute that serves the beast.

 

[tailgator]

In military power the Persians were superior, but in majesty and glory they were inferior to Babylon. there are dozens of books out there that explain the differences.

Daniel was shown a descending order of metals
Gold= Babylon
Silver= the Medeo/Persian EMpire
Brass= Greece
Iron and then iron and clay= Rome.

God said the descending order was inferior to the one ahead of it, so it is!

The word inferior is "ara' which by definition is earth or world. But when used in cases like this, means inferior or less noble as each metal shown was less noble than the previous metal.

So now you change your word and say Persia was inferior to Babylon after correctly saying Babylon was inferior to Persia.
You are never going to understand prophecy that way.

Oh well,the little horn will be marking its subjects next year and you still won't understand it.You will still be looking at the wrong kingdom.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The prophecy doesn't say anything about Jerusalem and is not about Jerusalem.

You must thing the Muslims are saints since they controlled Jerusalem so long.

As of Now Jerusalem is a prostitute that serves the beast.

Still waiting for you to name the ten Muslim nations you say are going to atrtack.

But thee Matt. prophecy which is tied to the Daniel prophesies mentions Jerusalem, so doesn't Revelation.

The beast is not on the scene yet. We are awaiting for this persons arrival still. the stage declared by god is not fully set yet.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So now you change your word and say Persia was inferior to Babylon after correctly saying Babylon was inferior to Persia.
You are never going to understand prophecy that way.

Oh well,the little horn will be marking its subjects next year and you still won't understand it.You will still be looking at the wrong kingdom.

Do you understand English at all?

Babylon was militarily inferior to the Medeo _Persians, but as silver is less nobler than gold among precious materials, so was the Medo/Persian empire "inferior to Babylon. They are separate things

 

[tailgator]

Still waiting for you to name the ten Muslim nations you say are going to atrtack.

But thee Matt. prophecy which is tied to the Daniel prophesies mentions Jerusalem, so doesn't Revelation.

The beast is not on the scene yet. We are awaiting for this persons arrival still. the stage declared by god is not fully set yet.

The deadly wound has already been healed and people from all nations have already followed after it as it is written.
It is the second beast that has not arrived in the promised land yet.It doesn't arrive until at least next year

 

[tailgator]

Do you understand English at all?

Babylon was militarily inferior to the Medeo _Persians, but as silver is less nobler than gold among precious materials, so was the Medo/Persian empire "inferior to Babylon. They are separate things

Persia owned Babylon.Period

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The deadly wound has already been healed and people from all nations have already followed after it as it is written.
It is the second beast that has not arrived in the promised land yet.It doesn't arrive until at least next year

So who is the first beast that most call the antichrist?

How do you know at leasat until next year.

By biblical calculations He is a minimum opf 7 years away.

Persia owned Babylon.Period

Still waiting for you to name teh ten Muslim nations that attack. Do you even know them or are you just spitballing?

 

[tailgator]

So who is the first beast that most call the antichrist?

How do you know at leasat until next year.

By biblical calculations He is a minimum opf 7 years away.

Still waiting for you to name teh ten Muslim nations that attack. Do you even know them or are you just spitballing?

The beast which received the deadly wound which was healed calls itself by the name Israel
It is described as being a little horn by Daniel.

The other ten horns are the predominately Muslim nations which dwell in the kingdom.The kingdom is the land from the Euphrates to the Nile .The promised land.



It's like you believe Europe is antichrist and the middle east is full of holy people.You don't expect those Muslims to dwell in the kingdom through the millinium do you.

 

[tailgator]

So who is the first beast that most call the antichrist?

How do you know at leasat until next year.

By biblical calculations He is a minimum opf 7 years away.

Still waiting for you to name teh ten Muslim nations that attack. Do you even know them or are you just spitballing?

Your not a faithful follower of Mohammed are you?

 

[Earburner]

Antiochus Epiphanes IV is incorrectly identified as the Little Horn of Daniel 8 by those who simply don't understand eschatology must align with historic evidence. There are several irrefutable facts of history which disqualify him as the Little Horn of Daniel 8.

One such reason is that Antiochus Epiphanes IV was anything but "exceeding great" beyond the "very great" Greeks or the "great" Medo-Persians. The only thing this man was "exceeding great" at was championing mediocrity.

• Spent his youth as a Roman hostage, surrendered by his defeated father as a condition of peace.
• Although he had initial success, his later conquests stalled and he died leaving them incomplete.
• "Epiphanes" means "Illustrious" but his contemporaries changed it to "Epimanes" - "the madman".
• He and his entire army were chased out of Egypt by a Roman ambassador and his small security force at a time when Rome had not yet even grown into the superpower that it would eventually become. When the ambassador arrived in Egypt, he told Antiochus that he wanted him to leave and then took his staff and drew a circle in the sand around Antiochus and demanded an answer before he stepped out of the circle. Antiochus left with his tail between his legs.

Some argue his temporary suspension of Jewish sacrifices and the sacrifice of a pig on the Jewish altar qualifies him as "exceeding great" as in "exceedingly blasphemous in the sight of God" but when you consider the human slaughter of Jews in the temple by Babylonian soldiers and the exact same kind of slaughter by the hands of Roman soldiers, one pig on the altar pales in comparison. Also, the timing of the suspension doesn't line up with the 2,300 Days, whether we count them as "2300" or "1100 evenings/mornings", nor does the word "sacrifice" appear in the original, meaning that the entire "daily" or "entirety of the ritual year" which includes everything else besides just the animal sacrifices.

There is simply no getting around irrefutable facts and if we're going to be Holy Spirit led students of Bible prophecy at all, we must follow where Providence - not our bigoted ideas - leads us.

My post #119 (in your Part #1), reveals that there IS NO PART #2 to your liking.
The prophecy of the 2300 "DAYS" has been completely fulfilled!!

All of your understanding is way out into the far future, hoping to establish an additional "little horn", of which is nothing more than a fabrication, to cover the gross error by Miller and his date setting, of the return of Jesus in all His Glory from heaven.

 

[Phoneman777]

My post #119 (in your Part #1), reveals that there IS NO PART #2 to your liking.
The prophecy of the 2300 "DAYS" has been completely fulfilled!!

Yes, in 1844, per the "day/year" principle that even you admit is applied in Daniel 9 but somehow is not in Daniel 8.

All of your understanding is way out into the far future, hoping to establish an additional "little horn", of which is nothing more than a fabrication, to cover the gross error by Miller and his date setting, of the return of Jesus in all His Glory from heaven.

Is that what the disciples did? "Cover up" their errors concerning their expectations that Christ's path would lead Him to be crowned king over His people that would reign over the Gentiles...instead of it leading Him to a cruel Cross?

Did they "cover up" anything...or did they simply recognize that they misinterpreted the prophecies by wrongly assuming that "sanctuary shall be cleansed" referred to "Earth sanctuary cleansed by the fiery Second Coming" and correctly understanding that the it referred to only sanctuary it could - the Heavenly Sanctuary - and the "time of the end" when the "Judgment" would begin "at the house of God"?

You'd do well to humbly remember that long before everyone else climbed on the bandwagon, the Seventh-day Adventist Church for almost 80 years had already been preaching as one of its core doctrines the soon return of Christ while you guys were stumbling around in the dark, clinging to that "post-millennium of peace return of Jesus" nonsense.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, in 1844, per the "day/year" principle that even you admit is applied in Daniel 9 but somehow is not in Daniel 8.

Is that what the disciples did? "Cover up" their errors concerning their expectations that Christ's path would lead Him to be crowned king over His people that would reign over the Gentiles...instead of it leading Him to a cruel Cross?

Maybe now you are made ready by His Holy Spirit to understand how Jesus used "typology". Not in regards of WHAT the building Temple/sanctuary was, but rather WHO.
John 2
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What SIGN shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy [desolate] THIS temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his [mortal] body.

The Feast of Tabernacles [temporary dwelling places] is the key for what Jesus said in John 2:21. The "FoT" is not about the Jews, but rather its about God Himself, and how He Himself was going to dwell/inhabit our temporary earthen bodies through His Son, unto the Day of Jesus' Glorious return in Immortality, having NEW Eternal Life, of which we ALSO shall be "changed" into.
2 Cor. 4
[6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
[7] But WE HAVE this treasure [of God Himself with] in [our] earthen vessels [mortal bodies], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

By that which I've shown in the above, have you come to understand in typology, that Jesus Himself was the abomination that MAKETH desolate??

In all the world, only Jesus ["the Lamb of God"] was truly of innocent blood!! Proverbs 6:16-19 specifically verse 17.
Try to think that through!!

All the churches are no where near to the understanding, that all abominations ARE AGAINST GOD, especially Prov. 6:17.

Did they "cover up" anything...or did they simply recognize that they misinterpreted the prophecies by wrongly assuming that "sanctuary shall be cleansed" referred to "Earth sanctuary cleansed by the fiery Second Coming" and correctly understanding that the it referred to only sanctuary it could - the Heavenly Sanctuary - and the "time of the end" when the "Judgment" would begin "at the house of God"?

I am not here to berate anyone's system of belief, but I am here to show that ALL of such are mixed with the wisdom of men, and have not understood that we all individually do know, that we all only know in part.
Therefore, I safely conclude and say: "NONE of the churches have ALL of His Truth, but all of the churches have SOME of His Truth." 1 Cor. 2:5

You'd do well to humbly remember that long before everyone else climbed on the bandwagon, the Seventh-day Adventist Church for almost 80 years had already been preaching as one of its core doctrines the soon return of Christ while you guys were stumbling around in the dark, clinging to that "post-millennium of peace return of Jesus" nonsense.

Ahh yes, the "Great Awakening" happened to all the churches, whereby many ignored it, others entertained it, but few embraced it.
Even the unsaved turned towards it, but went entirely off course into "spiritism".

However, do not get high and mighty in your own "doctrines of men", for the truth of Jesus is now being dispersed to individuals, who are NOT attending "CHURCH-ianity", including yours.
Again 1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the [Holy Spirit] power [authority] of God.